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marijuana and self defense

pardogpardog MemberPosts: 423 Member
http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/54095950-78/police-prokay-lewis-marijuana.html.csp

Interesting local story. A man shot an intruder with an AK-47 :applause: which was determined to be a legal shooting by the police. :win: However, when the police searched the apartment they found a small amount of marijuana and paraphernalia (the shooter was not under the influence at the time of the shooting) and now the shooter is facing charges (possession of drugs and a gun) almost as severe as the guy who broke into his house.

Replies

  • LMLarsenLMLarsen Senior Member Posts: 8,337 Senior Member
    A fine example of how not to stay under the radar while engaging in an illegal endeavor.

    I am curious, tho, as to the legal grounds under which his apartment was searched in the first place...
    “A gun is a tool, no better or no worse than any other tool: an axe, a shovel or anything. A gun is as good or as bad as the man using it. Remember that.”

    NRA Endowment Member
  • TugarTugar Senior Member Posts: 2,423 Senior Member
    So, because he smoked a joint some time in the past and maybe in the future, his rights are forfeit. Our forefathers are spinning in their graves.
    Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
    Winston Churchill
  • mythaeusmythaeus Senior Member Posts: 831 Senior Member
    LMLarsen wrote: »
    A fine example of how not to stay under the radar while engaging in an illegal endeavor.

    I am curious, tho, as to the legal grounds under which his apartment was searched in the first place...

    It looks like the shooting inside the house that the police said they smelled marijuana while inside investigating the scene, which gave them probable cause to search the house. At least that's what I derived from this report http://www.therepublic.com/view/story/2a906973c7af4992b529fea8e9d2058a/UT--Intruder-Shot-Marijuana/
    Tugar wrote: »
    So, because he smoked a joint some time in the past and maybe in the future, his rights are forfeit. Our forefathers are spinning in their graves.

    I'm a staunch advocate of ending the ridiculous "War on Drugs" and for legalizing all drugs (yes, including hard drugs). That's another discussion, but I want to state my stand first. As such I find the combination of drugs + gun when it comes to criminal charges ridiculous. The "spirit" of the law was meant for dealers/pushers and guns. That said, you need to know your state and federal laws when you are a gun owner. Even Philly has recently reduced "small amount possession" of marijuana to a summary offense instead of criminal charges, I still will not allow anyone with marijuana in my car. I will not come near it or go to somewhere where I know I will be around it. LE and prosecutors can be overzealous and you will never know what situation you may inadvertently be in.

    I have feeling though that there's more to this story. It may not be a random home invasion. Additionally, depending on state law, an AK 47 rifle may not be considered to be a "firearm" by statutory definition. If the law is firearms + drugs = crime, but not rifles + drugs = crime, then the charges may be dropped (assuming that he's not prohibited to own the AK 47 due to prior convictions).

    Al
    "In a controversy, the instant we feel anger we have already ceased striving for the truth and have begun striving for ourselves." - Siddhartha Gautama
  • mythaeusmythaeus Senior Member Posts: 831 Senior Member
    Some more details...
    http://southernutah.fox13now.com/news/news/73053-alleged-intruders-homeowner-arrested-after-burglary-attempt

    "Upon further investigation of Porkay’s apartment, officers detected an odor that appeared to be marijuana and obtained a search warrant, discovering a quantity of the drug in the home. Porkay was arrested for possession of marijuana and drug paraphernalia, both class A misdemeanors, and possession of a firearm by a restricted person, a third degree felony."

    If he was arrested for possession by restricted person, there must be more to this, i.e past criminal records. Discovery of marijuana in his apartment isn't a conviction yet so he could not have been arrested for the 3rd degree felony.

    Al
    "In a controversy, the instant we feel anger we have already ceased striving for the truth and have begun striving for ourselves." - Siddhartha Gautama
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    Possession of a firearm by someone habitually addicted to a narcotic or an illegal substance ( restricted person ) is a 3rd degree felony, the question is asked on the BATFE form 4473 you fill out each time you buy a firearm..... Are you habitually a user of illegal drugs or narcotics ?...... Disambiguation requested..... :tooth:
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 18,118 Senior Member
    Guns + Drugs + Being a restricted person + Police interaction = negative outcome, no matter how "in the right" your firearms use is.... pretty simple actually...
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    I know a fellow here, he had a minor fender bender, he was tested, and tested positive for Marijuana, his wife has documented medical use, he got fired from his job, has not found another job due to his age, and now his house is in foreclosure.......

    His accident was pretty bizarre, he stopped to help someone and backed the company vehicle into a short steel post not visible in his mirrors..... minor damage only....
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • mythaeusmythaeus Senior Member Posts: 831 Senior Member
    DoctorWho wrote: »
    Possession of a firearm by someone habitually addicted to a narcotic or an illegal substance ( restricted person ) is a 3rd degree felony, the question is asked on the BATFE form 4473 you fill out each time you buy a firearm..... Are you habitually a user of illegal drugs or narcotics ?...... Disambiguation requested..... :tooth:

    Interesting point, Doc. The question on that form asks you for what essentially is an admission, which answered yes you have admitted to be a prohibited person. In this case, not including any potential conviction in the past or admission, how could they have determined that he's a habitual user simply with drugs/para found in his apartment already?

    Al
    "In a controversy, the instant we feel anger we have already ceased striving for the truth and have begun striving for ourselves." - Siddhartha Gautama
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,577 Senior Member
    mythaeus wrote: »
    Interesting point, Doc. The question on that form asks you for what essentially is an admission, which answered yes you have admitted to be a prohibited person. In this case, not including any potential conviction in the past or admission, how could they have determined that he's a habitual user simply with drugs/para found in his apartment already?

    Al

    I can't speak to that state's criminal records reporting guidelines; but if, for example, you are a "career offender" as deemed by a court, such note is made in your criminal history (here in FL). Perhaps, in that state, if you are convicted of numerous drug possession charges, you are labeled as a "habitual user."

    There is a lot more to that story than was eluded to.
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    With a record of several violations, possession of drugs / paraphernalia, not even misdemeanors, they can make a charge of habitual use......
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • BufordBuford Senior Member Posts: 6,721 Senior Member
    Interesting situation. What happens if you are forced into a self defense shooting at home while you have been drinking?
    Just look at the flowers Lizzie, just look at the flowers.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,429 Senior Member
    mythaeus wrote: »
    It looks like the shooting inside the house that the police said they smelled marijuana while inside investigating the scene, which gave them probable cause to search the house. At least that's what I derived from this report http://www.therepublic.com/view/story/2a906973c7af4992b529fea8e9d2058a/UT--Intruder-Shot-Marijuana/


    I'm a staunch advocate of ending the ridiculous "War on Drugs" and for legalizing all drugs (yes, including hard drugs). That's another discussion, but I want to state my stand first. As such I find the combination of drugs + gun when it comes to criminal charges ridiculous. The "spirit" of the law was meant for dealers/pushers and guns. That said, you need to know your state and federal laws when you are a gun owner. Even Philly has recently reduced "small amount possession" of marijuana to a summary offense instead of criminal charges, I still will not allow anyone with marijuana in my car. I will not come near it or go to somewhere where I know I will be around it. LE and prosecutors can be overzealous and you will never know what situation you may inadvertently be in.

    I have feeling though that there's more to this story. It may not be a random home invasion. Additionally, depending on state law, an AK 47 rifle may not be considered to be a "firearm" by statutory definition. If the law is firearms + drugs = crime, but not rifles + drugs = crime, then the charges may be dropped (assuming that he's not prohibited to own the AK 47 due to prior convictions).

    Al

    I don't know if I agree to legalizing all of it, but Marijuana is a no brainer. It takes a moron to grow the stuff and they will never eradicate it. It will always be here and besides, it's not like the hard stuff and it's even questionable that it is addictive. They really serve no purpose busting college kids for smoking a joint or two. Think about how this ties up LE. It costs us a lot of tax money for no return.

    However, having said that, the fact is that the law is the law. And as long as it is against the law, people need to at least use discretion in its use. Like this guy was a real Missle surgeon to smoke pot in his house and invite the cops inside. Not to bright bozo!!! The cops are sworn to uphold the law whether they like the law or not. What did this guy expect? That the cops would sit down and toke on a joint with him? Moron!!!
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • jbp-ohiojbp-ohio Senior Member Posts: 10,666 Senior Member
    Buford wrote: »
    Interesting situation. What happens if you are forced into a self defense shooting at home while you have been drinking?

    Problem I've often wondered about. I know the law in Ohio says you can't have control of a firearm while you are under the influence of drugs or alcohol.

    Ok, if you are driving, under the influence is .08............. So what is under the influence for a firearm? .08?? Whatever the Judge decides???
    "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson
  • BufordBuford Senior Member Posts: 6,721 Senior Member
    I can hear it now. The alcohol impaired your judgment on using deadly force.
    Just look at the flowers Lizzie, just look at the flowers.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,429 Senior Member
    jbp-ohio wrote: »
    Problem I've often wondered about. I know the law in Ohio says you can't have control of a firearm while you are under the influence of drugs or alcohol.

    Ok, if you are driving, under the influence is .08............. So what is under the influence for a firearm? .08?? Whatever the Judge decides???

    I don't know what specific state laws are, but I know what it should be, and is in Texas. It ain't none of anybodies business if you're on your own property and you get threatened. You have the right to defend yourself and property. Of course upon investigation it is found that you weren't threatened you may be in trouble.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • Mr.FMr.F Member Posts: 89 Member
    If he wouldn't have been dumb enough to have pot around in the first place he wouldn't have been charged with it .
    Jermanator : You might talk about Tauruses around your wife, but that just doesn't fly in my house.
  • CaptainAhabCaptainAhab Member Posts: 93 Member
    Buford raises the real question to me; drinking at home. Pot use and possession is illegal at some level or another, so that is a mute point.

    So does my having 4 beers on Sunday night make me legally incabable of defending my home and family? Wow, I have a problem with that. But, to play devil's advocate; do we want someone who is completely hammered in his home waving a firearm around? And I don't see a blood/alchohol level test being the answer either.
    In reply to Xerxes' demand to lay down his weapons, Leonidas replied;
    "Molon Labe"..... "Come and take them!"
  • GunnerK19GunnerK19 Senior Member Posts: 1,095 Senior Member
    p
    jbp-ohio wrote: »
    Ok, if you are driving, under the influence is .08............. So what is under the influence for a firearm? .08?? Whatever the Judge decides???

    Interesting quandary... If you listen to the TV and radio ads purporting "Buzzed Driving is Drunk Driving", then if .08 is drunk, and say .02-04 is "buzzed", why then is the minimum BAC not .02? Then again, what's preventing a "Zero Tolerance" alcohol policy regarding anything?
    I'm a Conservative. How conservative? Only Alex P. Keaton has me beat.

    Taurus 605 .357, Ruger .45 Vaquero, Colt frontier commemorative .22 SA, Pietta 1860 .44 snubnose
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 7,958 Senior Member
    It is .02 for CDL, and teens.

    If he had nekkid pics of little boys on his PC screen when the cops were there, he would get busted. No difference. Its against the law.

    If you want to get into the legalize thing, I am all for it, all of them, right now, and you take full responsibility for your actions.

    First you get a drug buyers card with a 300.00 one time fee. I can and will step over you when you are lying on the sidewalk with a needle in your arm. The 300 bucks is to pay Waste Mang. to haul you to the dump and pour clorox where your fluids were leaking out.

    You kill someone drunk or high driving? No excuse, you chose to put yourself in that situation where you KNOW it can cause death, its murder.

    No more my money funding rehab. You have the choice, live with it.

    If your employer wants to pee test you and you fail, to bad, so sad, no unemployment because it is your choice.
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
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