A spin on getting pulled while carrying (Oh Scott, an idear for your show!)

SirGeorgeKillian

We have all had advice on what to do if you are driving and get pulled over. But what should you do if you are in the passenger seat and carrying? For your normal run of the mill stop, it should be a moot point unless the officer specifically asks if anyone in the car has any weapons. Because your normal run of the mill stop is you get pulled, the cop comes and gets your license, registration and proof of insurance, then walks back, writes you a ticket, then comes back and gives you a ticket and gives you your belongings back. What if there is a second officer who approaches from the passenger side? Or, as I have seen many local LEO do on busy highways, approaches from the passenger side to begin with.
We are taught to keep our hands on the steering wheel, in plain sight, but where do we put them when we are the passenger?
Just a little food for thought......

What say ye?

Teach

If you're getting tag-teamed by a couple of King Kong types, there's probably no good way to handle the situation. There's one Tennessee Highway Patrol officer in our area that the nurses at the hospital call "Barney Fife". His first name is actually Barney, but he's the most spooky, paranoid character anybody's ever met. He's very prone to pull his gun and threaten drivers, especially during DUI stops. Eventually, he's going to step over the line and shoot somebody, and when he does, there will be a mountain of anecdotal information on his previous behavior to bury him. So far, he's gotten away with it.

Under any relatively normal circumstances, with a cop that doesn't appear to be on the ragged edge of losing control, it's probably best to inform him as calmly as possible that you're carrying legally, and try to follow his directions from there.
Jerry

NN

On the dash board until you make any required notifications and are the told what to do. In a no notification state just keep your hands in plain sight.

SirGeorgeKillian

Jerry, I agree with your view here. I am just trying to get others opinions as this is something that I have never thought of before. I seldom ride in the passenger seat, but it would be nice to have thought of this at least once before being put in a situation :tooth:

Jayhawker

It really depends on what state you are in...in a "must notify" state, the safe action would be to render your passengers DL/ID and CPL at the same time you render yours.
I always had over both at the same time....whether it's required or not...

SirGeorgeKillian

The bigger question here is do you sit silently armed unless asked anything, do you give that info up immediately..
I understand state law comes into play as well.
What is worse, telling the officer you are armed out of courtesy, or holding off on the chance that he won't even ask the passenger. I know you don't have to say anything if the law says you don't but I always made it a practice to do that even if just because cops tend to be nicer when they aren't surprised or caught off guard...

Jayhawker

SirGeorgeKillian wrote: »

cops tend to be nicer when they aren't surprised or caught off guard...

You said it partner...

SirGeorgeKillian

Or get out and yell NUG NUG. Then sue the pants off the dept for not being sensitive to the fact that you are dyslexic...

Jeeper

SirGeorgeKillian wrote: »

The bigger question here is do you sit silently armed unless asked anything, do you give that info up immediately..
I understand state law comes into play as well.
What is worse, telling the officer you are armed out of courtesy, or holding off on the chance that he won't even ask the passenger. I know you don't have to say anything if the law says you don't but I always made it a practice to do that even if just because cops tend to be nicer when they aren't surprised or caught off guard...

RULE #1: You NEVER EVER START OFF TELLING THE OFFICER YOU'RE ARMED. YOU STATE THAT YOU HAVE A CONCEALED CARRY LICENSE and let that sink in before saying ANYTHING else. For goodness sakes NEVER start your conversations with "I have a gun" or "I'm armed"... this is almost guaranteed to begin an antagonistic encounter... at the start at least.

As a general rule, it's a GREAT idea to just pass your CWP over with your drivers license. Even if you're the passenger, that's not a bad idea IMO. Just have the driver state "Here are our licenses."

Luis

SirGeorgeKillian

The only problem with just handing your permit over at the same time is that it can be viewed that you just reached near your weapon (as at this point the cop doesn't know what you are carrying or where) to retrieve your wallet...

breamfisher

I've been stopped with a CCW before.

1. Be respectful and polite.
2. Never reach for ANYTHING without the officer telling you to.
3. Reach s...l...o...w...l...y... Not painfully slow, but be deliberate.
4. I hand over my permit with my license (it's not required in FL, but LEOs I know have advised me to.)
5. When the officer asks, reply in a calm tone that, "Yes, officer, I do have a firearm on me."

I did have my firearm taken when pulled over for a traffic stop, and had to get out of the vehicle, but the officer was a pro. He gave me a ticket (I deserved it) and told me to have a nice day.

Big Chief

It's best to ease your your fat foot off the gas pedal and don't get stopped in the first place:driving::tooth:

breamfisher

I have. Those tickets and traffic school are costly!

A hint, if you have to take a traffic school, take a comedy one. They still stink, just not as bad.

ADRidge

Well, to address the whole reaching for your wallet thing.... how about while you're in the process of being pulled over, get your wallet out. I've always done that and it seems to make the whole process easier on me. I don't waste their time, and I don't make them jumpy by reaching for something. But I also don't sit on my wallet while driving either.

breamfisher

It depends on where you're at. In some areas, if the LEO's see you reaching for something (getting the wallet), they can get jumpy. I've had some tell me they'd just as soon people not produce the wallet until asked.

But it depends on the area and officer. Barney Fife, or a police officer in the Overtown area of Miami will be more suspicious than an officer in more friendly locales.

orchidman

SirGeorgeKillian wrote: »

Or get out and yell NUG NUG. Then sue the pants off the dept for not being sensitive to the fact that you are dyslexic...

:spittingcoffee: :rotflmao: :roll2:

Classic!!!!!

beartracker

SirGeorgeKillian wrote: »

I always made it a practice to do that even if just because cops tend to be nicer when they aren't surprised or caught off guard...

+ONE I hand them my carry license as I am handing them my drivers license. Stating that I have a conceal carry license.

LMLarsen

The one time I got pulled over while I was carrying, I kept my hands on the wheel. When the officer asked for my license and registration, I advised him that I had a carry permit and was carrying at that time, "so you tell me exactly what you'd like me to do." He asked where my gun was, I told him "on my right hip, wallet is in my left hip pocket."

"OK," he said, "go ahead and get your wallet and license." Everything went fine, he was very cool.

mythaeus

As Jayhawker said, the duty to inform varies from state to state. I believe that some are specific to interacting with LE, which includes traffic stops, and may be exclusive to just traffic stops. Some states can have local ordinances, especially those without state preemption on gun laws. Depend on where you live, the first thing you should find out is whether or not you are legally required to inform and whether or not it's specifically to vehicle stops.

There was a story of a PA licensed carrier voluntarily gave his carry license along with his DL...to a Maryland cop (MD only recognizes MD licenses)! He accidentally crossed state line. Because of the weather, darkness, problems with signs, and the fact that the MD cop happened to grow up in PA, he escaped MD jail. I have also heard stories of guns being drawn and strained on people who informed cops that they are car. PA has no duty to inform. I will not volunteer the information unless I expect to have closer visual contact or physical contact (i.e expecting a pat down). I have heard first-hand report of people saying "if you don't mind, I do not wish to answer any questions" after being asked about firearms in the vehicle and the cop didn't press further. There was also a recent Ohio cop berating a licensed carrier for not informing him right off the bat, threatened to kill him: http://www.theblaze.com/stories/you-fu-with-me-cop-threatens-concealed-carry-gun-owner-during-traffic-stop/ . Ohio has duty to inform requirement, but with such a reaction, the cop was suspended after the video was reviewed.

While positive experiences by members here and negative experiences elsewhere are only anecdotal, I have so far concluded that it's a 50% chance of having a positive encounter. I don't like taking chances will only follow what is required by law when it comes to anything firearms related. When I was stopped at a DUI checkpoint a few years ago, I did not inform the officer until the point where he asked me to exit the vehicle. My exact words were, while keeping my hands completely visible, "Officer, I have a license to carry. I have my firearm on me right now. What would you like me to do?"

Al

samzhere

Good question. Depends on the jurisdiction, but ANY time you're pulled over by a cop, it's best to sit still and keep your hands in plain sight. That's just good common sense.

In Texas, if you have a CHL and are carrying, when the officer asks you for ID you are required immediately to inform that you're carrying and have a license. I've found it a good idea to mention that right away, regardless of the situation. Makes the LEO feel more at ease. I guess that would apply, driver or passenger.

There's very little you can do about the occasional "black glover" cop out there, but giving all the info up front can't hurt.

I've been stopped several times for speeding in the past few years (I'm a pretty, er, "brisk" driver). None has been late night, no alcohol, just driving to work or out & around on a Saturday.

No tickets yet. I'm friendly, non-argumentative, and let the LEO know I'm carrying and where. Of course my license & insurance is checked but the conversation then turns to "keep it down a bit, okay?" and "what sort of pistol are you carrying? how does it shoot?" etc.

LEOs I know tell me that having a "100 Club"** sticker in your window and having a CHL are both "good guy" marks that give you a bit of a break. Of course you can't be drunk or going 124mph or driving over schoolchildren, but minor speeding, you may luck out.

** "The 100 Club" is a long term Houston charity that helps families of LEOs or firefighters who die in the line of duty. That $100 annual sticker fee is a good investment because it's a genuine good charity and the sticker is a nice plus.

samzhere

Added thought: It's absolutely essential that you are aware of the specific laws wherever you're carrying! Some states, like Texas, require that you disclose you're carrying right away. Some states don't.

There are however general truths to be followed regardless: Never make sudden movements. Keep your hands visible. Be nice. And if you DO disclose to the cop you're carrying, don't then say, "Here, let me show you!" and reach for the pistol. D'oh!

SirGeorgeKillian

But the topic here was if you are in the passenger seat, not the drivers. In a state like Texas, would you blurt that out immediately when the cop is trying to talk to the driver???

samzhere

SirGeorgeKillian wrote: »

But the topic here was if you are in the passenger seat, not the drivers. In a state like Texas, would you blurt that out immediately when the cop is trying to talk to the driver???

No, of course not. But as soon as the attention was turned to you, sure. Otherwise, if you keep quiet and then for any reason the cop wants you to get out of the car, spots the gun, you'll end up face-first in the dirt. Makes sense to give the LEO the necessary info up front.

DoctorWho

It is almost the same as if you are a LEO / passenger in a vehicle, as soon as the topic turns to the passenger / who are you ? the passenger should have DL / ID / CHL handy and give it to the Officer, the passenger should produce these items and have them in hand before the car comes to a stop and have them at the ready so as not to have to dig for anything.

ghostsniper1

Since I am already well defined in showing assinine levels of stupidity here, I have to admit that I have grown up majorly from being an 18 year old idiot that was quite wreckless and careless with many things. When I was younger and pulled over for speeding, etc (before I had a CCW,) I would purposely be wrestless, aggitative and flail around quite frequently as being pulled over just to irritate and tick off the officer doing the stop since I figured he was being an inconvenience to me, I would stress him the hell out. Its funny how a person grows up and developes respect in a short time when they soon realize they have a wife and kids to rely on them. But not to derail the topic.... I would do as others said. Wait to be acknowleged, then state that I have a license to legally carry and go from there.

DoctorWho

" I would do as others said. Wait to be acknowleged, then state that I have a license to legally carry and go from there"

Even better than that, simply hand the Officer your CCW and Driver's license, CCW on top, and verbalize nothing untill asked.

And even better, don't ride around with mental midgets.

samzhere

Doc, my only concern on what you said is that I don't think it's advisable to be seen digging around your person or under the front seat as you're being stopped, before the cop asks you anything, or hand his something out of the blue without his asking.

Better to sit still and when you're addressed, volunteer the info only, still not moving until asked to. let the LEO initiate the movement. That's what they seem to prefer.

DoctorWho

That is what I tried to say, when you see the flashing lights have your ID's ready and in hand, hand them over when asked and answer all questions when asked.

SirGeorgeKillian

From the time they hit their flashing lights, they are watching your moves. Seeing if you are stashing anything, or grabbing or reaching for anything. IMHO the most sensible thing no matter where you are sitting in the car is to keep your hands in plane view, and wait for the officers instructions. Then before reaching, notify the officer that you have a CCP and are carrying. Then take it from there. In the officers mind if you have reached for your wallet which has your CCP, you could have just as easily reached for your gun.

DoctorWho

"From the time they hit their flashing lights, they are watching your moves"


I am not talking about doing anything except have your ID's ready, Any LEO would rather those be ready and in hand by the time he or she approaches.

SirGeorgeKillian

This is where I disagree. Every LEO I have ever talked to prefers when you keep your hands in plain view until instructed otherwise. Reaching for your wallet while being stopped is a bad way to start a routine traffic stop out IMHO....