S.P.D.S. (Smallbore Personal Defense Shotgun)

124

Replies

  • NomadacNomadac Senior Member Posts: 890 Senior Member
    Why would I go out and buy a .410 gun when I already have a Win. Defender .12 ga. pump? If he wants to use a less effective weapon for his protection, so be it but don't try to convince those more experienced to choose a lesser weapon.
    Just for one comparison:
    a 12 ga. 1 oz, rifled slug is equiv. to 437 grains 1600 fps x 8rds. = 3496 grains
    vs. a .410 ga. 87 grain slug. 1830 fps. x 8rds. = 696 grains

    A .22 cal. is a light weapon
    Low recoil
    Light ammo weight
    and will kill someone, but is not the weapon or caliber of choice for HD.

    If you choose a .410 so be it that is your decision but don't believe you can convince others this is their best choice. :roll:
  • SpkSpk Senior Member Posts: 2,174 Senior Member
    Gene L wrote: »
    I don't think the former poster known as deadmanwalking was a troll, he was just one of those annoying people who insist that YOU abandon your position and accept theirs, however wacky those ideas may be. Myself, when I was in law enforcement before retirement, I belonged to the elite Tactical Uniformed Response Detachment. We were, in fact armed with .410 shotguns (with two copper-washed 00 buckshot) and wore surplus Italian desert camo (pink and green). When people would ask me where I was going carrying a .410, I'd proudly replay: "I'm a TURD."

    Hey Gene, I'm guessing we were neighbors, since I worked for a sensitive unit called the Border Security Around Calexico Kalifornia, we saw a lot of action back in those days.
    Beware of false knowledge -- it is often more dangerous than ignorance.
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 26,106 Senior Member
    Acronyms are our friends.

    :rotflmao: Back in the 90's the nuke power 'powers that be' decided that new on-shift managers needed new titles as the System Engineers were getting their noses out of joint having people called engineers who weren't degreed engineers.
    Shift Engineers became Shift Supervisors, so they went from S.E. to S.S. They didn't like being referred to as the S.S.
    Assistant Shift Engineers became Assistant Shift Supervisors, so they went from A.S.E. to A.S.S. The new title acronym fit some of them to a "T", and they did not like being referred to as the Shift A.S.S.. :tooth:
    After a major blowup over the new titles the Shift Supervisors (S.S.) became Shift Managers (S.M.), and the Assistant Shift Supervisors (A.S.S.) became Assistant Shift Managers (A.S.M.).

    I can truthfully say that none of the Assistant Unit Operators(A.U.O.) nor the Unit Operators (U.O.) in any way, shape, form, or fashion used the interim acronyms in any way unbecoming to those holding those positions. And if you believe that, I have a bridge in Brooklyn for sale cheap! :tooth:
    If the U.S. Congress was put in charge of the Sahara Desert, there would be a shortage of sand in under six months.



  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    And yet another thread has decomposed into caca..... :tissue:
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 15,055 Senior Member
    DoctorWho wrote: »
    And yet another thread has decomposed into caca..... :tissue:

    I submit that it was caca from the start...and now lays moldering on the dungheap of history...
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    Too true..... sigh.... :deadhorse:
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 26,106 Senior Member
    It has not degenerated; rather it has spawned the Society for Creative Acronym Translation (S.C.A.T). :rotflmao:
    If the U.S. Congress was put in charge of the Sahara Desert, there would be a shortage of sand in under six months.



  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    Much like the food fights I avoided in My youth, it has added nothing good.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • KSU FirefighterKSU Firefighter Senior Member Posts: 3,246 Senior Member
    I don't know, I have had a few good chuckles out of it. I think that the OP must be a member of the Mature Online Recreational Outreach Network. As a M.O.R.O.N., members are required to reach out to online groups and say really dumb things to get them riled up.
    The fire service needs a "culture of extinguishment not safety" Ray McCormack FDNY
  • ShotgunnerDaveShotgunnerDave Banned Posts: 21 New Member
    cpj wrote: »
    Well crap. Got to thinking about this, and did some digging after seeing the Winchester PDX-1 .410 ammo at basspro today. I picked up a box to have a looksee. They list the speed as 750 FPS. Now keep in mind, this is loaded with those dumb little disks, and some....bb's. Yes, bb's. BB shot measures a few thousandths over .177, but, its still a BB. Like is shot out of your Red Ryder. So, some folks are counting on this ammo, and its BB's moving barely faster than a high quality BB gun to help those stupid little disks out.

    This article was talking about the Judge, which the OP mentioned as being a nice thing, as it can share the ammo with his .410.

    He averaged 625 FPS out his Judge. My Daisy Powerline 880 I had as a kid was more effective than that. You'll shoot your eye out, but thats about it....
    http://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/taurus-judge-pdx1-gun-review-ballistics/

    Seems like the fellow was talking about a shotgun in addition to a revolver.

    And he did mention that the Defense Discs were good in theory...but stated worries about over pressure in his 500 pump action.

    Maybe a break action shotgun (with the same type of choke would be in order) and said load should work without any real problems out of a Circut Judge or other revolver (B/C Gap and all)

    The more I read of this thread the more it seems like a number of members were on a witch hunt,and too busy trolling to really listen to what the fellow was saying.

    I wouldn't mind giving what the guy has said a try just to see what the results are,it couldn't hurt.
  • shushshush Senior Member Posts: 6,259 Senior Member
    Here we go again!!!!!:popcorn:

    cjp wrote: »..... Oh dear God, I've admitted to liking something Limey.I'll never hear the end of this.

    Jayhawker wrote: »...But seriously Shush....

    Big Chief wrote: ».........walking around with a greasy butt ain't no fun, though!

     


     

  • ShotgunnerDaveShotgunnerDave Banned Posts: 21 New Member
    shush wrote: »
    Here we go again!!!!!:popcorn:

    What exactly is that supposed to mean?
  • shushshush Senior Member Posts: 6,259 Senior Member
    What exactly is that supposed to mean?

    Again go we here.:cool:

    cjp wrote: »..... Oh dear God, I've admitted to liking something Limey.I'll never hear the end of this.

    Jayhawker wrote: »...But seriously Shush....

    Big Chief wrote: ».........walking around with a greasy butt ain't no fun, though!

     


     

  • ShotgunnerDaveShotgunnerDave Banned Posts: 21 New Member
    I've often thought about a Remington 870 in 28 gauge for defensive use.

    The .410 in a similar configuration as standard off the shelf defensive 12 and 20 gauge shotguns should be a good place to start for notes *Cylinder choked 18.5 inch barrel,different sizes of buckshot and slugs ect.*
  • Dr. dbDr. db Senior Member Posts: 1,541 Senior Member
    I wasn't in on the original posting so I found the thread interesting because many of the same arguments were used in the
    9 mm vs 45
    And
    223 vs 308 debates when the U.S. Military was considering a switch of some sort.
    Too light vs can hump more ammo
    No penetration vs modern ammo fixes that.
    It's the wave of the future vs it's a manufacturing marketing tool.
    It came complete with reducio ad absurdum or in this case sooner or later it all come down to poop.
  • jbp-ohiojbp-ohio Senior Member Posts: 9,555 Senior Member

    The more I read of this thread the more it seems like a number of members were on a witch hunt,and too busy trolling to really listen to what the fellow was saying.

    I wouldn't mind giving what the guy has said a try just to see what the results are,it couldn't hurt.

    Then you didn't read very well. This guy was banned, then came back under a different name.

    There is a pheasant 'preserve' near here that wont even allow you to hunt with a .410 because they spend to much time chasing wounded birds.
    "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson
  • ShotgunnerDaveShotgunnerDave Banned Posts: 21 New Member
    jbp-ohio wrote: »
    Then you didn't read very well. This guy was banned, then came back under a different name.

    There is a pheasant 'preserve' near here that wont even allow you to hunt with a .410 because they spend to much time chasing wounded birds.

    Why was he banned?

    Was it because of the .410 posts or was it something else?

    As for too many wounded birds....maybe it was the fault of the shooters for not petterning their guns with the size shot used,or it could have been that said shooters were just really bad shots.

    I've seen folks that have used smaller gauged guns and they were top notch shots and have taken plenty of small game.

    Besides the subject is self defense with large pellets out of a cylinder choked .410 barrel (which the OP seemed convinced would do the trick).
  • ShotgunnerDaveShotgunnerDave Banned Posts: 21 New Member
    cpj wrote: »
    He was banned the first time because he turned into a prick when we disagreed with him, the first time he posted his kdea. He was banned the second time, because you cant be banned then come back.

    Maybe he is back again...


    Maybe he acted the way he did because some of the members were allowed to troll him....just saying that it would be a possibility.

    I think it's a good point as far as ideas,and it would be nice to see what a 28 gauge with the correct for the task ammunition can do.

    I have seen pictures of the Taurus Circut Judge in 28 gauge and from the listing it has a cylinder choke barrel.

    Slugs were offered (I don't remember by which company right away) in the 28.

    Though I haven't seen much in the way of load data for buckshot (or tests with 28 gauge buckshot either).
  • SirGeorgeKillianSirGeorgeKillian Senior Member Posts: 5,458 Senior Member
    Problem number 2 is it is a taurus. Nothing about their workmanship makes me trust my life with it.
    Unless life also hands you water and sugar, your lemonade is gonna suck!
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    I'm in love with a Glock
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,101 Senior Member
    It's actually branded a Rossi. But made by Taurus. BTW, it's only available as a long gun. If it had a rifled barrel, it would be a rifle or handgun with a bore over .500 (.550 to be exact) and classified as a destructive weapon. If it's sold as a smooth-bore handgun, it becomes a short-barreled shotgun.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • ShotgunnerDaveShotgunnerDave Banned Posts: 21 New Member
    Problem number 2 is it is a taurus. Nothing about their workmanship makes me trust my life with it.

    I was talking about using it as a testing platform,I'm still leaning more toward the 870 though (and the 870 would need to pay a visit to a gunsmith for barrel work)


    What would be problem #1?
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,417 Senior Member
    Problem #1 is that a few people, (or maybe it's only one guy with a bunch of IP addresses) keep ressurecting a thread about self defense with a popgun. If he plays poker like he approaches self defense, I'd love to get him into a no-limit game. He probably draws to inside straights, too!
    Jerry
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • ShotgunnerDaveShotgunnerDave Banned Posts: 21 New Member
    Teach wrote: »
    Problem #1 is that a few people, (or maybe it's only one guy with a bunch of IP addresses) keep ressurecting a thread about self defense with a popgun. If he plays poker like he approaches self defense, I'd love to get him into a no-limit game. He probably draws to inside straights, too!
    Jerry

    Seems like a waste of money to me.
  • KSU FirefighterKSU Firefighter Senior Member Posts: 3,246 Senior Member
    So is trying to re-invent the wheel, 12 gauge for self defense. If all you have is a .410, or a 28 gauge, then by all means, find ammo that performs the best in that platform. If you are going to invest hard earned money in a self defense shotgun, do not, (in my opinion), waste said hard earned money in a less powerful, unproven, platform. Buy what has been proven to work.
    The fire service needs a "culture of extinguishment not safety" Ray McCormack FDNY
  • jbp-ohiojbp-ohio Senior Member Posts: 9,555 Senior Member
    I've seen folks that have used smaller gauged guns and they were top notch shots and have taken plenty of small game..

    Exactly!
    "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson
  • ShotgunnerDaveShotgunnerDave Banned Posts: 21 New Member
    So is trying to re-invent the wheel, 12 gauge for self defense. If all you have is a .410, or a 28 gauge, then by all means, find ammo that performs the best in that platform. If you are going to invest hard earned money in a self defense shotgun, do not, (in my opinion), waste said hard earned money in a less powerful, unproven, platform. Buy what has been proven to work.

    Nothing wrong with a 12 gauge as it is I own several (been thinking of getting a 10 gauge)

    but it doesn't hurt to test the waters from time to time even with the smaller stuff.
  • ShotgunnerDaveShotgunnerDave Banned Posts: 21 New Member
    jbp-ohio wrote: »
    Exactly!

    Question though....

    Would you use birdshot for defense in any gauge?
  • QuinianQuinian Senior Member Posts: 707 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »

    Maybe he is back again...

    I'd have to agree. Also, I want that half hour of my life back I spent reading the OPs garbage :tooth:
  • gatorgator Senior Member Posts: 1,689 Senior Member
    Question though....

    Would you use birdshot for defense in any gauge?

    If it was all I had,yes..........If I have a choice,no.

    I have a Bond Arms derringer that I carry in my riding vest when I'm om the bike.
    It is .45 colt/.410 and is loaded with 250gr .45colt rounds,I would rather trust one big heavy projectile than a bunch of little light ones.
    Of course there is usually a 9mm or .357 somewhere on my person too.
    USMC 80-84
    -96 lbs
  • ShotgunnerDaveShotgunnerDave Banned Posts: 21 New Member
    gator wrote: »
    If it was all I had,yes..........If I have a choice,no.

    Well we have a choice of birdshot and buckshot,and of different gauges.

    Choices are a good thing in life.
This discussion has been closed.
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