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U.S. reverses stance on treaty to regulate arms trade

NomadacNomadac Senior MemberPosts: 902 Senior Member
(Reuters) - The United States reversed policy on Wednesday and said it would back launching talks on a treaty to regulate arms sales as long as the talks operated by consensus, a stance critics said gave every nation a veto. http://www.reuters.com/article/2009/10/15/us-arms-usa-treaty-idUSTRE59E0Q920091015

On Wednesday Obama Took the First Major Step in a Plan to Ban All Firearms in the United States. The Obama administration intends to
force gun control and a complete ban on all weapons for US citizens through the signing of international treaties with foreign nations. By
signing international treaties on gun control, the Obama administration can use the US State Department to bypass the normal legislative process in Congress. Once the US Government signs these international treaties, all US citizens will be subject to those gun laws created by foreign governments. These are laws that have been developed and promoted by organizations such as the United Nations and individuals such as George Soros and Michael Bloomberg. The laws are designed and intended to lead to the complete ban and confiscation of all firearms.


Who said Obama is not going to enact Gun Control?

Replies

  • KENFU1911KENFU1911 Senior Member Posts: 1,052 Senior Member
    Any info more recent???....Ken
    My idea of a warning shot is when the 2nd bad guy watches his 1st buddy go down....
  • JerryBobCoJerryBobCo Senior Member Posts: 8,227 Senior Member
    According to Dick Morris, obama plans to sign this while congress is not in session. Also, he claims that once it is done, it's irreversible.

    I really don't understand how this can be, although I have no doubt that this is the sort of thing that obama would do.

    If this really goes through, and the UN decides to disarm American citizens using foreign troops, I can see a bloody mess ensuing. I pray to God that this never happens.
    Jerry

    Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
  • SirGeorgeKillianSirGeorgeKillian Senior Member Posts: 5,463 Senior Member
    Man, and to think I left my tinfoil hat at home....
    Unless life also hands you water and sugar, your lemonade is gonna suck!
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    I'm in love with a Glock
  • Hugh DamrightHugh Damright Member Posts: 169 Member
    Obama Took the First Major Step in a Plan to Ban All Firearms in the United States ... through the signing of international treaties with foreign nations.
    It seems to me that a lot of people believe that the US power to make treaties is absolute, but under our Constitution, the US is limited to enumerated powers, and to construe one of these powers to be a power to do anything and everything must be a misconstruction.

    Even if the day came when a treaty banning guns would pass Congress, be signed by the President, and upheld by the SCOTUS ... I don't see how it could be constitutional in any meaningful sense of the term.

    "Let us not make [the US Constitution] a blank paper by construction. I say the same as to the opinion of those who consider the grant of the treaty making power as boundless. If it is, then we have no Constitution. If it has bounds, they can be no others than the definitions of the powers which that instrument gives. It specifies and delineates the operations permitted to the federal government, and gives all the powers necessary to carry these into execution. Whatever of the enumerated objects is proper for a law, congress may make the law; whatever is proper to be executed by way of a treaty, the President & Senate may enter into the treaty;" -Thomas Jefferson
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    Nomad, you say "on Wednesday..." -- do you mean today, Wed June 27, 2012?

    btw, your paragraph that starts that way is excellent writing! besides your capitalizing a bunch of words in the first sentence, that is, ha ha. Do you write columns or articles? If you don't, you should. That para shows excellent command of English and good style.

    I don't necessarily agree with the tenets of your paragraph but the writing itself is first rate. Congrats. Did you study journalism or do you just write this way by having learned the skill? Regardless, you ought to do some articles (even if the pay is minimal, the name recognition is fun).
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    Sam, try clicking on a link sometime. The article is a Reuters press release from 2009- - - -old news!
    Jerry
  • gunwalkergunwalker Member Posts: 479 Member
    Anyone getting any mailings on this from Senator Rand Paul? I have had 3 so far trying to raise money to fight it.
    We do not view the world as it is, but as we perceive it to be.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,429 Senior Member
    Nomadac wrote: »
    (Reuters) - The United States reversed policy on Wednesday and said it would back launching talks on a treaty to regulate arms sales as long as the talks operated by consensus, a stance critics said gave every nation a veto. http://www.reuters.com/article/2009/10/15/us-arms-usa-treaty-idUSTRE59E0Q920091015

    On Wednesday Obama Took the First Major Step in a Plan to Ban All Firearms in the United States. The Obama administration intends to
    force gun control and a complete ban on all weapons for US citizens through the signing of international treaties with foreign nations. By
    signing international treaties on gun control, the Obama administration can use the US State Department to bypass the normal legislative process in Congress. Once the US Government signs these international treaties, all US citizens will be subject to those gun laws created by foreign governments. These are laws that have been developed and promoted by organizations such as the United Nations and individuals such as George Soros and Michael Bloomberg. The laws are designed and intended to lead to the complete ban and confiscation of all firearms.


    Who said Obama is not going to enact Gun Control?

    God have mercy on all of us because if they do this, we will have a revolution that will make 1775 look like a birthday party.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • robert38-55robert38-55 Senior Member Posts: 3,621 Senior Member
    JerryBobCo wrote: »
    According to Dick Morris, obama plans to sign this while congress is not in session. Also, he claims that once it is done, it's irreversible.

    I really don't understand how this can be, although I have no doubt that this is the sort of thing that obama would do.

    If this really goes through, and the UN decides to disarm American citizens using foreign troops, I can see a bloody mess ensuing. I pray to God that this never happens.

    Me too, JerryBobCo, Me too, however the possibility still exist for the Odumbut and the likes of Hilary Clinton, George Soros, Mike Bloomberg, and all the others to just try and pull some BS like this......
    "It is what it is":usa:
  • Make_My_DayMake_My_Day Senior Member Posts: 7,863 Senior Member
    From what I hear, the Senate has to ratify this treaty by a 2/3 vote, and if it were passed, it would take a Constitutional Amendment to get rid of it. There is also another treaty up for consideration...Law of the Sea treaty (LOST). This would be a gigantic worldwide wealth redistribution scheme, where taxes would have to be paid to poor countries from oil profits from oil found in US territorial waters, administered by some international commission. Almost as dangerous as the OP treaty. Worldwide socialism is coming.
    JOE MCCARTHY WAS RIGHT:
    THE DEMOCRATS ARE THE NEW COMMUNISTS!
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,692 Senior Member
    This has been discussed pre-crash and mentioned in other threads post-crash.
    http://forums.gunsandammo.com/showthread.php?2319-Just-got-a-call-from-the-NRA&highlight=treaty
    http://forums.gunsandammo.com/showthread.php?619-Obama-UN-Gun-Control-Treaty&highlight=pelosi

    Here's what's wrong with the uproar over the small arms treaty...

    1. The article is from October 14, 2009. Which was a Wednesday.
    2. As Wambli has said, 2/3 of the Senate has to approve it. As of July last year, 57 senators oppose the treaty. 57. Out of 100. Heck, just the 47 Republicans alone could block passage. But we have Democrats who oppose the treaty.
    http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/washington-whispers/2011/07/26/democrats-oppose-obama-un-gun-control-treaty
    3. The U.S. Constitution supersedes any and all foreign treaties, per the U.S. Supreme Court Ruling in Reid vs. Covert. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reid_v._Covert
    4. The treaty in question limits the international sale of firearms. If your gun shop isn't shipping to Canada, Mexico, Cuba, Zimbabwe, etc. then it'll still be able to sell to you.
    5. Neither Hillary Clinton nor Barack Obama can sign the treaty because it hasn't even been written yet. They're still working on it. http://www.gunsandammo.com/2012/04/03/u-n-friendly-to-u-s-gun-owners/
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arms_Trade_Treaty

    Really folks, we need to read through stuff better, do a little research of our own, and maybe remember the stuff from high school civics classes, lest the casual reader think we are a bunch of reactionaries reacting willy-nilly to fear-mongering and our intense distrust of the administration.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,812 Senior Member
    Really folks, we need to read through stuff better, do a little research of our own, and maybe remember the stuff from high school civics classes, lest the casual reader think we are a bunch of reactionaries reacting willy-nilly to fear-mongering and our intense distrust of the administration.

    You are right, of course. But when we see a president who seems to be trying to assume dictatorial powers, in defiance of the Constitution that provides for the checks and balances you cite, there is ample cause for concern.

    This president routinely uses executive orders and privileges to execute his political will, knowing that it 'won't stand up in court.' He has restructured enforcement agencies by placing political cronies in charge who will not balk at enforcing laws that are in defiance of the Constitution. You are absolutely right in saying the law prevents him, but he does not care what the law says, and the co-equal branches of government are not opposing his tendency to over-reach with nearly enough vigor.
  • NomadacNomadac Senior Member Posts: 902 Senior Member

    Really folks, we need to read through stuff better, do a little research of our own, and maybe remember the stuff from high school civics classes, lest the casual reader think we are a bunch of reactionaries reacting willy-nilly to fear-mongering and our intense distrust of the administration.

    Sorry about not reading through more thoroughly as to the original date. I have had several emails from Sen. Rand Paul on this subject and he is working to prevent any such treaty being approved by the Senate. My apology.
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    Teach wrote: »
    Sam, try clicking on a link sometime. The article is a Reuters press release from 2009- - - -old news!
    Jerry

    I know the link, Jerry, and that it's old news, yes yes yes I DO know, okay? But I was commenting on the paragraph following. That it is an opinion piece that is NOT from the link and I was telling Nomad that it was nicely written, that he should consider writing articles or blurbs for political sources.
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    Nomadac wrote: »
    Sorry about not reading through more thoroughly as to the original date. I have had several emails from Sen. Rand Paul on this subject and he is working to prevent any such treaty being approved by the Senate. My apology.

    Regardless, Nomad, the paragraph you wrote following the link is well written and shows you have a good journalistic style. I'm wondering whether you've had some journalism experience? Regardless, you should be writing for at least a political blog. I don't necessarily agree with what you wrote totally, but I still think it's good writing.

    Do you write other stuff?
  • robert38-55robert38-55 Senior Member Posts: 3,621 Senior Member
    bisley wrote: »
    You are right, of course. But when we see a president who seems to be trying to assume dictatorial powers, in defiance of the Constitution that provides for the checks and balances you cite, there is ample cause for concern.

    This president routinely uses executive orders and privileges to execute his political will, knowing that it 'won't stand up in court.' He has restructured enforcement agencies by placing political cronies in charge who will not balk at enforcing laws that are in defiance of the Constitution. You are absolutely right in saying the law prevents him, but he does not care what the law says, and the co-equal branches of government are not opposing his tendency to over-reach with nearly enough vigor.

    bisley!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ That is the exact way I feel at the present.... Our current President, along with the likes of H.Clinton N.Pelosi, etc. etc. throw in a few George Soros, and couple all those inept imbicels into a cess pool of BS called the UN and one doesn't have to have a PHD from Harvard to understand what is currently happening to our Country
    "It is what it is":usa:
  • NomadacNomadac Senior Member Posts: 902 Senior Member
    Here is the latest U.N. Arms Trade Treaty Drafting Starts Next Week Posted on June 29, 2012 @ NRA-ILA This time I am current.
    http://www.nraila.org/news-issues/articles/2012/un-arms-trade-treaty-drafting-starts-next-week.aspx?s=U.N.+Arms+Trade+Treaty+Drafting+Starts+Next+Week&st=&ps=
  • NomadacNomadac Senior Member Posts: 902 Senior Member
    samzhere wrote: »
    Regardless, Nomad, the paragraph you wrote following the link is well written and shows you have a good journalistic style. I'm wondering whether you've had some journalism experience? Regardless, you should be writing for at least a political blog. I don't necessarily agree with what you wrote totally, but I still think it's good writing.

    Do you write other stuff?

    Sam that was a quote from the email with the (Reuter's) article I received, which is slightly different than the link. Sorry I cannot take credit for it. I often write letters to the editor in my local paper, etc. and post on several other forums. I had some writing courses in college, (don't remember what they were now) and had to write reports in my past work assignments. I helped develop several Dealership Operating Manuals when I worked for TMS. Probably helped in my writing skills, etc.
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    Nomadac wrote: »
    Sam that was a quote from the email with the (Reuter's) article I received, which is slightly different than the link. Sorry I cannot take credit for it.

    Ah. Understood. You posted it without attribution so I assumed it was yours. The link itself was neutral news copy, the paragraph was editorial, so I knew it didn't come from the Reuters story.

    Anyway...
  • blueslide88blueslide88 Member Posts: 273 Member
    This has been discussed pre-crash and mentioned in other threads post-crash.
    http://forums.gunsandammo.com/showthread.php?2319-Just-got-a-call-from-the-NRA&highlight=treaty
    http://forums.gunsandammo.com/showthread.php?619-Obama-UN-Gun-Control-Treaty&highlight=pelosi

    Here's what's wrong with the uproar over the small arms treaty...

    1. The article is from October 14, 2009. Which was a Wednesday.
    2. As Wambli has said, 2/3 of the Senate has to approve it. As of July last year, 57 senators oppose the treaty. 57. Out of 100. Heck, just the 47 Republicans alone could block passage. But we have Democrats who oppose the treaty.
    http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/washington-whispers/2011/07/26/democrats-oppose-obama-un-gun-control-treaty
    3. The U.S. Constitution supersedes any and all foreign treaties, per the U.S. Supreme Court Ruling in Reid vs. Covert. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reid_v._Covert
    4. The treaty in question limits the international sale of firearms. If your gun shop isn't shipping to Canada, Mexico, Cuba, Zimbabwe, etc. then it'll still be able to sell to you.
    5. Neither Hillary Clinton nor Barack Obama can sign the treaty because it hasn't even been written yet. They're still working on it. http://www.gunsandammo.com/2012/04/03/u-n-friendly-to-u-s-gun-owners/
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arms_Trade_Treaty

    Really folks, we need to read through stuff better, do a little research of our own, and maybe remember the stuff from high school civics classes, lest the casual reader think we are a bunch of reactionaries reacting willy-nilly to fear-mongering and our intense distrust of the administration.

    You got it exactly right, breamfisher. The Rand Paul crowd is trying to stir up pro-gunners by posing as their heros. It's all bull.
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,692 Senior Member
    You got it exactly right, breamfisher. The Rand Paul crowd is trying to stir up pro-gunners by posing as their heros. It's all bull.
    Now, I wouldn't say it's all bull. Because the treaty might or might not have broader-scale implications than we are anticipating. It could affect the import of foreign-made firearms in the end. However, the ability of the administration to push this through has several, several limitations on what it can do.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • QuinianQuinian Senior Member Posts: 707 Senior Member
    JerryBobCo wrote: »

    If this really goes through, and the UN decides to disarm American citizens using foreign troops, I can see a bloody mess ensuing. I pray to God that this never happens.

    I'd like to say if ANY troops try this it'll be a bloody mess but you and I both know that most sheeple will give up their guns int he name of safety just like they bend over and spread em for the TSA and DUI check points mentioned in another thread
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