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I guess he was right, Law student vs LEO

104RFAST104RFAST Posts: 1,281 Senior Member
in Second Amendment/Politics #1
http://flaguns.com/showthread.php?17790-A-MUST-See-Video-for-ANY-gun-owner
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  • 1965Jeff1965Jeff Posts: 1,650 Senior Member
    #2
    Wow, the cop showed admirable restraint . I was under the impression that if an officer asks for ID it must be produced or he can haul you off until you can prove who you are( or aren't).
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  • 104RFAST104RFAST Posts: 1,281 Senior Member
    #3
    I agree. the cop kept a cool head through out. I think I would have shown ID just because the cop wasn't being a di#$k. If you
    push things to that level on a regular basis, sooner or later things will go badly, right or wrong.
    1965Jeff wrote: »
    Wow, the cop showed admirable restraint . I was under the impression that if an officer asks for ID it must be produced or he can haul you off until you can prove who you are( or aren't).
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  • bmlbml Posts: 1,075 Senior Member
    #4
    The guy in the video was right, but he was still a douche bag. The cop was technically wrong but he was very professional I don't think I would have had a problem taking five minutes of my time to prove that I was not a felon.
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  • QuinianQuinian Posts: 707 Senior Member
    #5
    Well I guess stuff varies from state to state. In MT a cop CAN stop you and ask what you're doing and for your ID which you are required to show him. This D-bag would have gotten cuffed here.

    ETA: what he SHOULD have done was coperate and then filed a report. Granted it likely would have found it's way into the round file but there's less chance of him getting a beating.
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  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    #6
    Dunno, I think it is prudent to produce ID / CCW Credentials when asked for them....
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
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  • SirGeorgeKillianSirGeorgeKillian Posts: 5,463 Senior Member
    #7
    He was right. Was he overboard? A bit. Unlike the officer he was dealing with, he knew the laws, and was well within his rights. Hard to say I find fault in that. He was walking down the street with a holstered gun, in a area that allows open carry. Do the police routinely stop people for doing legal things? Because it involved a gun, he was stopped. He knew the law and set the record straight. It was the cop who was the person trying to break the law, and while I would have given the officer my ID, it was technically illegal (from the case studies quoted) to do so.
    Maybe this guy will push his luck too far. Maybe one day he will own a house paid for by a lawsuit. Who knows...
    Unless life also hands you water and sugar, your lemonade is gonna suck!
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    I'm in love with a Glock
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  • TeachTeach Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    #8
    It's also possible he could end up with a long-term lease on 18 square feet of real estate.
    Jerry
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  • 1965Jeff1965Jeff Posts: 1,650 Senior Member
    #9
    With all the attitude he'll make a good lawyer.I'm right nyah nyah nyah...
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  • ThatMattGuyThatMattGuy Posts: 666 Senior Member
    #10
    I am torn on this. It is my feeling that this guy was more interested in having a run in with an LEO then he was with protecting himself and promoting responsible carry. I am not a fan of open carry because of those out there who just do it to "show off". The officer was just doing his job. He can't not respond to "man with a gun" calls. He has to deal with A-holes everyday. Maybe a responsible gun owner could NOT be one too :) LOOK AT ME!!! SEE HOW SMART I AM! Blah.....Shut up and act right lol
    The poster formerly known as '69MercCougar
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  • BufordBuford Posts: 6,722 Senior Member
    #11
    Damn, that was one patient cop.
    Just look at the flowers Lizzie, just look at the flowers.
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  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Posts: 12,360 Senior Member
    #12
    Buford wrote: »
    Damn, that was one patient cop.

    True, but one that would not back down from a bad move on his part.

    I'm torn on this as well. From what I remember of the video, the cop knew he was making an unwarranted detention (no warrant or probable cause), and knew open carry was legal. The student was doing this to get his 15 minutes of fame, but he was right.

    I am all for police, but I do find it troubling when they want to hassle someone with no probable cause.
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
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  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    #13
    In defense of the LEO, his did not know and could not know if the guy was an insane serial killer, there was a complaint made, a dispatched & logged call, most likely Dept guidelines call for an ID check and check for warrants / felonies etc. anytime a public nuisance complaint is made, and a report after.

    This guy is pushing his luck.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
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  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    #14
    bullsi1911 wrote: »
    True, but one that would not back down from a bad move on his part.

    I'm torn on this as well. From what I remember of the video, the cop knew he was making an unwarranted detention (no warrant or probable cause), and knew open carry was legal. The student was doing this to get his 15 minutes of fame, but he was right.

    I am all for police, but I do find it troubling when they want to hassle someone with no probable cause.

    It was not a detention, it was an ID check based on a complaint, and the way the guy was so confrontational and nervous, if you are going to do stuff like that practice up on the speaking parts and carry documentation too.

    Yes the LEO in question was aware of the legality of open carry, however a complaint was made, and the non felony status of the person carrying had to be verified.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
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  • jbp-ohiojbp-ohio Posts: 10,881 Senior Member
    #15
    Like I said awhile back. If LEO's pulled over every suspicious looking person anytime they wanted, it would take mkk41 a long time to get to work... ;)
    "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson
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  • JayhawkerJayhawker Posts: 18,317 Senior Member
    #16
    104RFAST wrote: »
    http://flaguns.com/showthread.php?17790-A-MUST-See-Video-for-ANY-gun-owner

    All of this could be avoided by 911 dispatchers asking a couple of questions instead of sending out a "man with a gun" call/
    1. What is he doing with the gun?
    2. Is he threatening anyone?

    If not, the dispatcher could then inform the caller that openly carrying a firearm in public is perfectly legal.....end of call.

    Also...this is not the first video that this guy has done...he does this A LOT. You would think that the PD would make the announcement at every roll call for a week or so that the open carry of firearms is legal, so quit making the department look bad by harassing these people - especially when they have a camera...
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
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  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    #17
    Last time I had My holstered gun in view, years ago, by accident in a 7-11, a LEO said hi and asked if I had just gotten off work etc..... did not ask for credentials etc..... it was later on I realized My sidearm was exposed.

    What I am trying to say is this, keep low key to avoid confrontations, or be a Donkey attention whore and look for trouble by open carry.

    My Mom used to say, "Son, don't do things that make you the focus of people's (the Police for example) attention."
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
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  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Posts: 5,486 Senior Member
    #18
    In Idaho, Open Carry is regarded as the right to bear arms. It does not require gov't permission or background checks or fingerprints or mandatory classes or fees or specialty clothes and holsters. Open Carry is a freakin' RIGHT.

    I do not try to draw attention to myself, but I WILL exercise my right to KABA.

    Having a camera rolling keeps the cops honest. Sometimes, anyway.
    When our governing officials dismiss due process as mere semantics, when they exercise powers they don’t have and ignore duties they actually bear, and when we let them get away with it, we have ceased to be our own rulers.

    Adam J. McCleod


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  • JayhawkerJayhawker Posts: 18,317 Senior Member
    #19
    CaliFFL wrote: »
    In Idaho, Open Carry is regarded as the right to bear arms. It does not require gov't permission or background checks or fingerprints or mandatory classes or fees or specialty clothes and holsters. Open Carry is a freakin' RIGHT.

    I do not try to draw attention to myself, but I WILL exercise my right to KABA.

    Having a camera rolling keeps the cops honest. Sometimes, anyway.

    Even in Idaho...depending on the number of liberals inhabiting a given municipality....(fear of fireams tends to increase with larger populations) I wonder how the PD would react to a call from a panicked person claiming there was a person walking around with a gun....
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
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  • bmlbml Posts: 1,075 Senior Member
    #20
    Jayhawker wrote: »
    Even in Idaho...depending on the number of liberals inhabiting a given municipality....(fear of fireams tends to increase with larger populations) I wonder how the PD would react to a call from a panicked person claiming there was a person walking around with a gun....

    You have a point, but truthfully, it should end with the dispatcher, as mentioned above. I know, perfect world and all.
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  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Posts: 5,486 Senior Member
    #21
    Jayhawker wrote: »
    Even in Idaho...depending on the number of liberals inhabiting a given municipality....(fear of fireams tends to increase with larger populations) I wonder how the PD would react to a call from a panicked person claiming there was a person walking around with a gun....

    My county is less than 40,000 and only four deputies patrol at any given time. I imagine they get calls, especially in summer with the lake tourists.
    When our governing officials dismiss due process as mere semantics, when they exercise powers they don’t have and ignore duties they actually bear, and when we let them get away with it, we have ceased to be our own rulers.

    Adam J. McCleod


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  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    #22
    cpj wrote: »
    Exactly. Just like any LEO would not know if ANY person on the street is an insane serial killer. Stop them all.

    What is the big deal ? if a Police Officer wants to see My ID ?

    been there done that, produced My IDs and been courteous to the Police so that when they verified My identity and found out I had a valid permit and no warrants etc.... I thank them for not shooting Me, they wish Me a nice day, and all is fine and dandy......
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
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  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Posts: 5,486 Senior Member
    #23
    DoctorWho wrote: »
    What is the big deal ? if a Police Officer wants to see My ID ?

    been there done that, produced My IDs and been courteous to the Police so that when they verified My identity and found out I had a valid permit and no warrants etc.... I thank them for not shooting Me, they wish Me a nice day, and all is fine and dandy......

    In case you've forgotten:

    The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
    When our governing officials dismiss due process as mere semantics, when they exercise powers they don’t have and ignore duties they actually bear, and when we let them get away with it, we have ceased to be our own rulers.

    Adam J. McCleod


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  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Posts: 5,486 Senior Member
    #24
    cpj wrote: »
    Because unless Im a suspect, quite frankly its NOTFB.


    :that:
    When our governing officials dismiss due process as mere semantics, when they exercise powers they don’t have and ignore duties they actually bear, and when we let them get away with it, we have ceased to be our own rulers.

    Adam J. McCleod


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  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Posts: 12,360 Senior Member
    #25
    DoctorWho wrote: »
    What is the big deal ? if a Police Officer wants to see My ID ?
    .

    What is the big deal for the officer if I tell him no?
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
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  • olesniperolesniper Posts: 3,767 Senior Member
    #26
    This worm has several videos posted on the net, all are the same. He goes out trolling for cops, hoping he'll cause a confrontation. Guess he wants to show how he's sooooo much smarter than the police. Probably bought the gun just to make his videos.
    Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
    I will fear no evil: For I carry a .308 and not a .270
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  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    #27
    bullsi1911 wrote: »
    What is the big deal for the officer if I tell him no?

    A good example is the forum, lots of infractions get punished, not necessarily a matter of law, you are dealing many times with the human element out there, I find the best way to do that in real life is to take the low road with LE, when I deal with the criminal element, that is another matter.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
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