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Do you use airsoft or other force-on-force in your defensive training?

I just wrote this little piece on the airsoft we use on PDTV and was wondering your thoughts on using airsoft or other force-on-force training.
Why or why not?

Do you train using airsoft? 24 votes

Yes. It gives me real-world feedback on my tactics..
12%
[Deleted User]SirGeorgeKillianJasonMPD 3 votes
No. Airsoft is for kids.
12%
dldglockman042230-30shooter 3 votes
No, but seriously considering it.
58%
bullsi1911EliLMLarsenavmechalphasigmookiecpjBigslugshawn1172.223snipercappy54pardogtv_racin_fanLerchesslaw_emt 14 votes
No, and would never consider it.
16%
BPsniperNCFUBARTeachDiver43 4 votes

Replies

  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 12,080 Senior Member
    No, but seriously considering it.
    Seriously considering it with the training and shooting trips that I am doing with my buddies.
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • BPsniperBPsniper Banned Posts: 1,961 Senior Member
    No, and would never consider it.
    Only reason I voted no is because I have SIMS available to me. Concept is the same with a little more oomph and pain while using existing platforms.

    Either way, a great training tool. Makes one put their money where their mouth is when it comes to tactics.

    Helps to break the, "I'm shot so I guess I'll give up" mentality as well. God help the guy who drops his guard after getting hit because he thinks it's over. A full mag of pain will be coming after him to drive the point home that you NEVER give up. Even if shot. DON't QUIT!!
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 Member
    Yes. It gives me real-world feedback on my tactics..
    BPsniper wrote: »
    A full mag of pain will be coming after him to drive the point home that you NEVER give up.

    I LOVE that! I'm going to do that first chance I have. :guns:
  • BPsniperBPsniper Banned Posts: 1,961 Senior Member
    No, and would never consider it.
    You'll see it too, I promise. You'll shoot a guy and he will react. Either jumping or lowering his gun after hit. They'll immediately look at where they got hit as if that would do anything to help. That's when you let them have it. A great debriefing tool. Never quit! Fight!!!!! Then, give them the chance to correct the action. Break the habit and end on a good note.
  • avmechavmech Senior Member Posts: 863 Senior Member
    No, but seriously considering it.
    Not yet, but will soon, just have to acquire one
    BPsniper wrote: »
    Helps to break the, "I'm shot so I guess I'll give up" mentality as well. God help the guy who drops his guard after getting hit because he thinks it's over. A full mag of pain will be coming after him to drive the point home that you NEVER give up. Even if shot. DON't QUIT!!

    BP, very well put!!!
    Grumpy old gearhead
  • NCFUBARNCFUBAR Senior Member Posts: 4,324 Senior Member
    No, and would never consider it.
    BPsniper wrote: »
    Only reason I voted no is because I have SIMS available to me. Concept is the same with a little more oomph and pain while using existing platforms.

    You got that right! Simunition seems to find the little gaps in protective clothing ... the worse is the top of the glove area ... and those thing leave BIG RED welts in addition to the marker. Airsoft just doesn't give such defineable feedback.

    Years back it was wax bullets that were primer powered out of .38 revolvers, ain't technology grand!
    “The further a society drifts from truth ... the more it will hate those who speak it."
    - George Orwell
  • TSchubTSchub Senior Member Posts: 783 Senior Member
    I have used it in the past, but not much lately. Not a bad tool to use, but I found that even though my pistols were the same design, the initial transfer to the "Real " weapon gave me a bit of a flinch that first few shots. I just plink in the backyard with air soft now.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 Member
    Yes. It gives me real-world feedback on my tactics..
    NCFUBAR wrote: »
    Airsoft just doesn't give such defineable feedback.

    Oh, believe me NC, the modern, high-quality gas guns have plenty of bite. This is my ribcage under my right arm where George shot me from about 15 feet during an "active shooter" drill.

  • mythaeusmythaeus Senior Member Posts: 831 Senior Member
    We have no choice here in Philadelphia.

    City ordinance.
    "CHAPTER 10-800. SAFETY,
    §10-810. Weapons and Dangerous Devices.

    (2)(a) No person shall sell, offer for sale at retail, or use, or possess with intent to use, any air gun, spring gun, or any implement not a firearm which forcefully impels a pellet of any kind."

    Even water pistols are banned here. :bang:
    Al
    "In a controversy, the instant we feel anger we have already ceased striving for the truth and have begun striving for ourselves." - Siddhartha Gautama
  • NCFUBARNCFUBAR Senior Member Posts: 4,324 Senior Member
    No, and would never consider it.
    Oh, believe me NC, the modern, high-quality gas guns have plenty of bite. This is my ribcage under my right arm where George shot me from about 15 feet during an "active shooter" drill.

    :yikes:

    I had no clue they made higher velocity gas versions. The kid has the Dicks S.G. version and the dogs barely move when popped with that one but that raspberry looks a might painful ... was payback given :devil: ?
    “The further a society drifts from truth ... the more it will hate those who speak it."
    - George Orwell
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    No, and would never consider it.
    Airsoft sort of blurs the line between "gun" and "toy". My grandson shot virtually everything at the southeast shoot a couple of years ago, safely and effectively, then he was almost blinded by an airsoft pellet fired by his stepsister less than a day later. They were playing cops & robbers, moving and shooting, and she happened to be just a bit too good of a shot. No, they weren't using eye protection, which they should have been, but it was only by pure luck that he was not permanently injured. In a controlled environment with all the necessary safety precautions, maybe they've got their place, but I think I'll pass!
    Jerry
  • SirGeorgeKillianSirGeorgeKillian Senior Member Posts: 5,463 Senior Member
    Yes. It gives me real-world feedback on my tactics..
    As long as they are being used for tactics, they are awesome. Help pass time at the fire house too :tooth:
    Just don't get too hung up on accuracy because unless you sink some serious coin in one, they usually don't handle like a real gun.
    Unless life also hands you water and sugar, your lemonade is gonna suck!
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    I'm in love with a Glock
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 Member
    Yes. It gives me real-world feedback on my tactics..
    NCFUBAR wrote: »
    ... was payback given :devil: ?

    Payback was given to the cameraman/director. We were filming PDTV and he kept having us re-shoot the scene, and that required George to re-shoot me. Now, every time were on a location filming with airsoft, I make sure the director gets a shot or two.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 Member
    Yes. It gives me real-world feedback on my tactics..
    Teach wrote: »
    Airsoft sort of blurs the line between "gun" and "toy".

    You are correct, and this is a problem. They're NOT toys.
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 18,141 Senior Member
    BPsniper wrote: »
    Only reason I voted no is because I have SIMS available to me. Concept is the same with a little more oomph and pain while using existing platforms.

    Either way, a great training tool. Makes one put their money where their mouth is when it comes to tactics.

    Helps to break the, "I'm shot so I guess I'll give up" mentality as well. God help the guy who drops his guard after getting hit because he thinks it's over. A full mag of pain will be coming after him to drive the point home that you NEVER give up. Even if shot. DON't QUIT!!

    Yep! It certainly helps to prove or disprove any tactics you have dreamed up...However, since I retired simmunitions are a thing of the past
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 12,080 Senior Member
    No, but seriously considering it.
    BPsniper wrote: »

    Helps to break the, "I'm shot so I guess I'll give up" mentality as well. God help the guy who drops his guard after getting hit because he thinks it's over. A full mag of pain will be coming after him to drive the point home that you NEVER give up. Even if shot. DON't QUIT!!

    As my last instructor put it: "If you are hit and dying, make sure that you kill them before you go. Make sure they will be your servant in Valhalla"
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 9,396 Senior Member
    No, but seriously considering it.
    Like BP Sniper, we've got access to Simuntions, so Airsoft has never really been explored, however I have considered looking into it from a "the ammo's a lot cheaper" viewpoint. I've got enough on my own plate however, I'll probably suggest it to someone who has more time to carry that particular ball.
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • Billy GunBilly Gun Member Posts: 51 Member
    Can't say that I've trained with them, but some buddies and I have played with them. Always wore safty glasses. Those little pellets realy sting and draw blood. I got "stitched up" my right side with a full auto M-16 looking one after I got one shot off with a single shot. It's alot of fun though.
  • NCFUBARNCFUBAR Senior Member Posts: 4,324 Senior Member
    No, and would never consider it.
    .223sniper wrote: »
    It might sound weird but if you reload instead of using bullets use mashed Wheaties. Don’t use this method until you use ballistic gelatin to see how far the lethality is. For my reloads of 9mm at 2 feet it'll give you a bruise. Something like a 5.56 could probably kill you at 3ft. Check before you shoot and don’t use them in action until you know inside and out. I wouldn't recommend this method either because it can be unpredictable.
    Another option if you’re in police is they make chalk rounds and paint rounds.

    Dudr ... What are you smokin'?
    “The further a society drifts from truth ... the more it will hate those who speak it."
    - George Orwell
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,577 Senior Member
    Yes. It gives me real-world feedback on my tactics..
    I voted yes on the principle of the matter, not on the Airsoft in particular.

    My department uses Simunitions. Buggers hurt, too. I got lit up with a SBR AR15 with a 9mm upper conversion. But he got all 15 sim rounds from my pistol, too. It is an eye opener to see how folks react to being shot back at....or shot at first. Learn some things about yourself, too. It is a good tool if utilized properly.

    -Jason
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • BPsniperBPsniper Banned Posts: 1,961 Senior Member
    No, and would never consider it.
    JasonMPD wrote: »
    I voted yes on the principle of the matter, not on the Airsoft in particular.

    My department uses Simunitions. Buggers hurt, too. I got lit up with a SBR AR15 with a 9mm upper conversion. But he got all 15 sim rounds from my pistol, too. It is an eye opener to see how folks react to being shot back at....or shot at first. Learn some things about yourself, too. It is a good tool if utilized properly.

    -Jason

    :up:

    Welcome aboard.
  • law_emtlaw_emt New Member Posts: 1 New Member
    No, but seriously considering it.
    Voted No, but consdering it.

    The question between Airsoft and Simmunition is interesting. The simmunition weapons that I have used are generally real weapons converted to fire the nasty little buggers. And airsoft is generally a system that is built to only fire the pellets. Airsoft does hurt but yes you need to drop some money a decent system which you can find from companies such as redwolfairsoft.com. But for the weapons systems the prices are somewhat comparable to sim. Whereas the rounds are less expensive. For the airsoft system you can actually buy the weapons systems with upgraded internal springs to give the recoil of a small caliber. Accuracy is the same with real guns, you get what you pay for. Yes Airsoft is capable of putting eyes out and chipping teeth (i have personally seen this) but so is sim rounds.

    Also with the sim rounds that are converted to fire the rounds they usually fire a 9mm cartridge and there is a chance, as unlikely as it sounds, that one could accidently load a live 9mm round into the weapon. But zero chance of loading live rounds into an airsoft. Also since airsoft was originally developed by the japanese so the citizens could have guns, the laws there are against, the replicas are generally extremely accurate to the weapons people carry and you can ussually find whatever suits your fancy. Including, if you so desire, the Vulcan gatling. Airsoft also comes in paint rounds to mark. But the whole problem of they are not toys I agree whole heartedly. But that is the whole point of the four basic rules. And would you allow a youngster to randomly fire a paintball gun at someone else without each person having protective equipment?
  • cappy54cappy54 Member Posts: 269 Member
    No, but seriously considering it.
    I voted no with concidering and the reason being is that with the lack of good training facilities with reactive targets, shoot house and so forth, it may be an option for force on force. There have been a couple of facilities here in miami, one out of business and a new one just recently opened. This is where i see the advantage of airsoft for training. I now as a fact that in certain countries in So. America that have strong gun laws. Air soft is a very big market. My LGS has provided gear to many and they take it very serious since they dont have ranges readily available. It could happen, my 2cnts.
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