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Dr. db
Senior MemberPosts: 1,541 Senior Member
Christian Defense
Dr. db
Senior MemberPosts: 1,541 Senior Member
I wrote this a while ago but I began to think about it given the theater shooting across town.
Defense
How can a Christian recommend school staff be armed and therefore ready to use force, even deadly force, to defend themselves and their students? Doesn't Mathew 26:52 enjoin us to pacifism as part of the new covenant? When Jesus stops Peter’s attack and says, “for all who draw the sword will die by the sword,” isn’t he saying, “Dude what are you doing? We’re pacifists.” Actually Jesus didn’t tell Peter to throw away his sword. He said, “Put your sword back in its place.” In addition Jesus said he could summon more than 72,000 immortal beings to fight for him if he wanted. I haven’t ever seen one but I would suspect that angels are pretty good guys to have on your side in a fight. Phrases like, “inhumanly quick”, “phenomenally strong”, and “fantastically disciplined” come to mind. In my opinion, Jesus was saying, “Pete! This ain’t the time. First, it is my father’s will that I go with them. If I wanted to fight I could and I could do it far better than you. Second, you are just going to get yourself killed to no purpose.” In other words, live now and fight another day.
In addition as Christians we are at all costs to avoid shedding innocent blood either by commission or omission.
"He who has the ability to act on an injustice, but who stands idly by, is just as guilty as he who holds the knife." ~~Dracano Sapien
Peter cut the ear off of an innocent servant, not a soldier. Jesus paid the blood price by healing the servant. We can, actually we have an obligation to, defend our lives and the lives of the innocents in our charge not from insult, we are to turn the other cheek in this case, but from death. We stop. We defend. We do not revenge. The shedding of blood is a daunting responsibility and God will examine the act closely to see if the perpetrator is justified. Did you shed blood wantonly like a brawler? Were you defending or revenging?
Defense
How can a Christian recommend school staff be armed and therefore ready to use force, even deadly force, to defend themselves and their students? Doesn't Mathew 26:52 enjoin us to pacifism as part of the new covenant? When Jesus stops Peter’s attack and says, “for all who draw the sword will die by the sword,” isn’t he saying, “Dude what are you doing? We’re pacifists.” Actually Jesus didn’t tell Peter to throw away his sword. He said, “Put your sword back in its place.” In addition Jesus said he could summon more than 72,000 immortal beings to fight for him if he wanted. I haven’t ever seen one but I would suspect that angels are pretty good guys to have on your side in a fight. Phrases like, “inhumanly quick”, “phenomenally strong”, and “fantastically disciplined” come to mind. In my opinion, Jesus was saying, “Pete! This ain’t the time. First, it is my father’s will that I go with them. If I wanted to fight I could and I could do it far better than you. Second, you are just going to get yourself killed to no purpose.” In other words, live now and fight another day.
In addition as Christians we are at all costs to avoid shedding innocent blood either by commission or omission.
"He who has the ability to act on an injustice, but who stands idly by, is just as guilty as he who holds the knife." ~~Dracano Sapien
Peter cut the ear off of an innocent servant, not a soldier. Jesus paid the blood price by healing the servant. We can, actually we have an obligation to, defend our lives and the lives of the innocents in our charge not from insult, we are to turn the other cheek in this case, but from death. We stop. We defend. We do not revenge. The shedding of blood is a daunting responsibility and God will examine the act closely to see if the perpetrator is justified. Did you shed blood wantonly like a brawler? Were you defending or revenging?
Replies
NRA Endowment Member
Al has a good theory on self defense with his own religion that I couldn't agree with more. His view is how good of a (insert your religion here) can you be if you are dead?
The Bible teaches against suicide, but also teaches against murder. What is worse, killing a man that will otherwise kill you (and possibly countless others) or sit idle knowing that it will be the end of you. Isn't that in a very real sense, no different than suicide? Sure it isn't you killing yourself, but knowing the outcome will surely lead to your own death, doing nothing is very similar....
There are so many different angles and arguments that you could take from this. Right, wrong, or in different, I know in the end, my plan is for me and my family to make it home safe. I can't make any guarantees for anyone who wishes to do the above mentioned party harm.
God blessed me with this life. He blessed me with this family. If you do not fight for them and let anyone take them from you, then you are telling God that those gifts were worth nothing to you.
-Mikhail Kalashnikov
http://www.gunownersalliance.com/Rabbi_0112.htm
― Douglas Adams
(AMP)
2 If a thief is found breaking in and is struck so that he dies, there shall be no blood shed for him.
3 But if the sun has risen [so he can be seen], blood must be shed for slaying him. The thief [if he lives] must make full restitution; if he has nothing, then he shall be sold for his theft.
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
34 He teacheth my hands to war, so that a bow of steel is broken by mine arms.
35 Thou hast also given me the shield of thy salvation: and thy right hand hath holden me up, and thy gentleness hath made me great.
36 Thou hast enlarged my steps under me, that my feet did not slip.
37 I have pursued mine enemies, and overtaken them: neither did I turn again till they were consumed.
38 I have wounded them that they were not able to rise: they are fallen under my feet.
39 For thou hast girded me with strength unto the battle: thou hast subdued under me those that rose up against me.
40 Thou hast also given me the necks of mine enemies; that I might destroy them that hate me.
41 They cried, but there was none to save them: even unto the LORD, but he answered them not.
42 Then did I beat them small as the dust before the wind: I did cast them out as the dirt in the streets.
No he didn't.
The theater shooter drew the proverbial sword and it is too bad there wasn't a patron carrying that night so the scum could die by the proverbial sword.
And that was taken WAY WAY WAY OUT OF CONTEXT... PETER DREW FIRST.. IT WAS NOT IN SELF DEFENSE.
Look at God's design in nature. What would happen if you attempted to harm the young of just about any animal? Bear, Moose, Elephant, Mocking Bird, on and on...Tell me it is not in God's design for his creation to protect their young.
Later in the garden, when Christ told Peter to "put your sword in its place", he clearly did not say get rid of it forever. That would have contradicted what he told the disciples only hours before. Peter's sword was to protect his own mortal life from danger. His sword was not needed to protect the Creator of the universe and the King of kings.
Years after Pentecost, Paul wrote in a letter to Timothy "But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever" (1 Tim. 5:8). This passage applies to our subject because it would be absurd to buy a house, furnish it with food and facilities for one's family, and then refuse to install locks and provide the means to protect the family and the property. Likewise it would be absurd not to take, if necessary, the life of a night-time thief to protect the members of the family (Exodus 22:2-3).
Can we argue that if we were able to save life by shooting the attacker with our gun that we should "turn the other cheek instead?" The Bible speaks of no such right. It only speaks of our responsibilities in the face of an attack-as individual creatures made by God, as householders or as neighbors. "Love thy neighbor as you would yourself." You protect your family, you should protect your neighbors if you can.
Winston Churchill
Dan
While it was the plan to die, it was also the plan that it would happen at the appointed time, in the way it was supposed to. There are other instances in the Gospels where people tried to kill Jesus, or plotted to, and failed because it wasn't the time.
There is no comparison to the phrase "living by the sword" and using lethal force in defense. That is not "living" by the sword.
edit-
and I extend that to defending our freedoms so that millions of others can live and enjoy life; as our founding Americans did.
"Molon Labe"..... "Come and take them!"
When causing death is the result, the moral intent matters greatly. On the moral ground, was the true intent to kill/murder or was it to stop the threat? I'm a Buddhist and have done my best to not kill, even bugs in my house. My wife, a Catholic, is the same way after she met me. We both carry for self-defense and in all our conscience made up our minds that we will shoot to stop the threat, no more, no less. Whether or not death to the assailant is resulted, we will have a clear conscience in the "Thou shall not kill" spirit in the teaching of both of our religions. If the intent was to kill/murder, then you will have to answer to your "higher being" morally...and most likely to the legal authority in the mean time.
You may have seen the Dalai Lama's quote floating around the web that says "If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." The "quote" is actually incomplete. It's actually not a direct quote either, but out of an article (http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=20010515&slug=dalai15m0). The full article quote: "But if someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, he said, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun. Not at the head, where a fatal wound might result. But at some other body part, such as a leg." Of course, anyone knows self-defense shooting knows that it's nearly impossible and is extremely dangerous to "shoot the leg". Still, what he really tried to convey was that the intent should never be to kill. My philosophy, aligned completely with his, is that you shoot to stop the threat, death is only a side effect.
Al
Jerry
a series of sermons on this subject; probably as related to military war time duty.
I hope I can come away with something to post here on it.
One has to be careful of what they post in a thread like this so as to not be
labeled a mall ninja so I'll just say my past does not trouble me at night and as a
practicing Christian I do not believe it should. Nor do I believe to-days warriors be they
military or LEO of whatever type or a family head should be troubled with doing their duty and how it
meshes with any religious beliefs they may have.
Not really, Jerry. I said "Thou shall not kill" spirit, which for all intents and purposes, including my further take regarding intent to murder/kill, is roughly equivalent to "thou shall not murder".
Al
Romans 13
Winston Churchill
Genesis tells us that God made the universe and needed a rest, confirming that the deity is not completely tireless. Browning clocks in to cover God's inevitable coffee breaks.
"Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
It does not say needed rest but it says "And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made." (Genesis 2:3) As hard as it is for me to wrap my head around it, God does not tire.
As a science major, the more and more I see of nature and how it works, the stronger my belief becomes in my Creator. Things work out too perfect for it all to be an accident. Along those lines, I feel that Browning's designs have to be God given because they are just stinkin brilliant.