Not All Nurses are Intimidated By Doctors!

DanChamberlainDanChamberlain Senior MemberPosts: 3,353 Senior Member
Had a patient who was very ill. Her son was a doctor from another hospital. While I was speaking to him and performing some chore in the room, I caught him glancing at my daily patient record. Not a problem. He asked me about his mom's labs. I told him I didn't have today's labs yet but would bring them in as soon as I'd had a chance to check the computer. I left the room and checked the labs, wrote them down on the record and went back in to brief him.

When I walked out, he followed me into the hall and approached me. This is how the conversation went.

"You can call me 'Doctor' (insert last name) and I won't have a nurse lie to me."

"Just how is it you believe I lied to you" (Note I didn't use 'Doctor')

"You said you didn't have my mother's labs and I saw them noted on your papers."

"Let me explain something to you. If you note, you'll see two sets of labs. One in blue ink and one in black ink. The blue ink - the ones you noted - are 'yesterdays' labs. The black ones are todays. You'll notice that the black ones are new on the record."

At this time he started to sputter and find a way to back out of the conversation. This is when I stepped into his personal space.

"Mister (note I didn't say doctor) I won't have anyone, much less a "doctor" accuse me of lying. I don't know what kind of nurses you're used to intimidating where you work, but you can't intimidate me and if you mom wasn't extremely ill, I'd be filing a complaint with your boss."

Well, that was a screwed up morning! It took me about two hours before my blood pressure was back to normal. Every time I went into the room he refused to meet my eyes, but he was respectful.

His brother mentioned to me later on that the doctor was sorry. I told him that didn't cut it. The good "doctor" could tell me himself, or as far as I was concerned the matter was still an issue to be resolved.

He never did.

Oh well.
It's a source of great pride for me, that when my name is googled, one finds book titles and not mug shots. Daniel C. Chamberlain
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Replies

  • ThatMattGuyThatMattGuy Senior Member Posts: 666 Senior Member
    Nice!! I always enjoy a moment when you can shut down some jerk!
    The poster formerly known as '69MercCougar
  • woodsrunnerwoodsrunner Senior Member Posts: 2,725 Senior Member
    Dan, I am reluctant to refer to it as "blame", but part of this incident rests squarely on your sholders!

    This man had no knowledge of your military background, did he? He did not, or otherwise he would have carefully chosen his words and subject matter and addressed you very respectfully with the third person approach.

    Two careers could not be polarized farther apart than those that you chose. I have thought to myself that subconciously you have chosen your medical career out of anguish at what you observed of mankind in your military career, and that you have a deep desire to leave mankind better off than when you first observed him! But Dan, you are partly responsible for this incident. You never see a Pit Bull working as a Veterinary's chief assistant!
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,269 Senior Member
    Rich, you're way off base on this one. Dan is absolutely in the right, and the guy was being a jerk, no matter what sort of alphabet soup follows his name. If he happened to be the physican of record treating his mother, he might have a little more leeway with his relationship with her nurses and other caregivers, but trying to use his "Doctor" status to browbeat anyone is as repugnant as some butter-bar lieutenant trying to pull rank on a senior NCO. He was just about as successful with his attempt, apparently! Good for you, Dan! There's very few things as satisfying as putting an obnoxious donkeyhole in his proper place!
    Jerry
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • BufordBuford Senior Member Posts: 6,652 Senior Member
    Dan, I am reluctant to refer to it as "blame", but part of this incident rests squarely on your sholders!

    I really have to disagree with this.
    Just look at the flowers Lizzie, just look at the flowers.
  • rbsivleyrbsivley Senior Member Posts: 1,055 Senior Member
    Good job Dan. That is what I call being a professional and expecting others who appear to be pros at like it.
    Dan is the Man.
    Randy

    Rank does not concur privileges. It imposes responsibility. Author unknown
  • KSU FirefighterKSU Firefighter Senior Member Posts: 3,245 Senior Member
    Good for you Dan, this donkeyhole was wanting to show how powerful he was to someone he considered an underling. Some Doctors just seem to think that they are better than anyone in the room. Occasionally have Docs show up on emergency scenes that get in the way and generally hinder patient care. The good ones just want to help and work with you. The ones that are on a power trip just get in the way.
    The fire service needs a "culture of extinguishment not safety" Ray McCormack FDNY
  • SlanteyedshootistSlanteyedshootist Senior Member Posts: 3,947 Senior Member
    Was the idjit Dr. Howard, Dr. Fine or Dr. Howard?
    The answer to 1984 is 1776
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 14,837 Senior Member
    Good for you Dan, this donkeyhole was wanting to show how powerful he was to someone he considered an underling. Some Doctors just seem to think that they are better than anyone in the room. Occasionally have Docs show up on emergency scenes that get in the way and generally hinder patient care. The good ones just want to help and work with you. The ones that are on a power trip just get in the way.

    Yep!...Had a Doctor (Cardiologist) show up at a multiple car MVA...before it was all over, the good Dr. had been cuffed and stuffed for interfering with EMS on the scene.
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • woodsrunnerwoodsrunner Senior Member Posts: 2,725 Senior Member
    Teach, read between the lines, ole Buddy! Dan understands what I have said, and I promise you he's quietly laughing his rear-end off! This MD ran his arm down into a yellowjacket nest out of being an egotistical dumbsh** and not knowing who he was challenging! Of course I'm fixing no blame on Dan! I'm poking fun at him in a subtle sort of way and he knows it!
  • shotgunshooter3shotgunshooter3 Senior Member Posts: 5,379 Senior Member
    Dan, I am reluctant to refer to it as "blame", but part of this incident rests squarely on your sholders!

    This man had no knowledge of your military background, did he? He did not, or otherwise he would have carefully chosen his words and subject matter and addressed you very respectfully with the third person approach.

    Two careers could not be polarized farther apart than those that you chose. I have thought to myself that subconciously you have chosen your medical career out of anguish at what you observed of mankind in your military career, and that you have a deep desire to leave mankind better off than when you first observed him! But Dan, you are partly responsible for this incident. You never see a Pit Bull working as a Veterinary's chief assistant!

    I see what you did there, at least I think I do...

    EDIT - Oops you did indeed explain it.
    - I am a rifleman with a poorly chosen screen name. -
    "It's far easier to start out learning to be precise and then speeding up, than it is having never "mastered" the weapon, and trying to be precise." - Dan C
  • woodsrunnerwoodsrunner Senior Member Posts: 2,725 Senior Member
    That is your military background kicking in there, SS3! :wink:

    Remember, Dan had a career in counterintelligence activities. Don't mess with these fellows!
  • shotgunshooter3shotgunshooter3 Senior Member Posts: 5,379 Senior Member
    That is your military background kicking in there, SS3! :wink:

    Yep, all two years as a Cadidiot and two years as a Butter Bar... Haha!
    - I am a rifleman with a poorly chosen screen name. -
    "It's far easier to start out learning to be precise and then speeding up, than it is having never "mastered" the weapon, and trying to be precise." - Dan C
  • woodsrunnerwoodsrunner Senior Member Posts: 2,725 Senior Member
    It takes a little time, but you're well on your way and we're PROUD of you! After all.....you've been here on the Forum since you were 8-10 years old! I remember 12 or so years ago challenging you saying "ain't no kid smart enough to respond like he does" only to have yo' MOM come on line and straighten me out :cuss:
  • SirGeorgeKillianSirGeorgeKillian Senior Member Posts: 5,458 Senior Member
    Good for you Dan, this donkeyhole was wanting to show how powerful he was to someone he considered an underling. Some Doctors just seem to think that they are better than anyone in the room. Occasionally have Docs show up on emergency scenes that get in the way and generally hinder patient care. The good ones just want to help and work with you. The ones that are on a power trip just get in the way.

    I've actually responded to care facilities that had a doctor on staff with a patient that needed to be transported to a facility that offered higher care. Most of the time when we got there, the doctor actually backed off and let us take over. Most good doctors (not including some of the crackerjack ER docs) will tell you that EMTs are usually better at dealing with certain things, as we usually see more of it.
    Unless life also hands you water and sugar, your lemonade is gonna suck!
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    I'm in love with a Glock
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    Teach, read between the lines, ole Buddy! Dan understands what I have said, and I promise you he's quietly laughing his rear-end off! This MD ran his arm down into a yellowjacket nest out of being an egotistical dumbsh** and not knowing who he was challenging! Of course I'm fixing no blame on Dan! I'm poking fun at him in a subtle sort of way and he knows it!

    I am pretty dense and I saw it was a humorous statement....

    I remember a few Physicians like that.....
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • DanChamberlainDanChamberlain Senior Member Posts: 3,353 Senior Member
    Rich

    I understood what you were talking about. The problem is, I can't wear my previous career on my sleeve. However, if he'd gotten physical...we would have had to discuss the pretzel position.

    Dan
    It's a source of great pride for me, that when my name is googled, one finds book titles and not mug shots. Daniel C. Chamberlain
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    You are a good man Dan, I remember an incident when I was working private ambulance transfers, I noticed a major error in the patients chart, I quietly pointed it out to the Physician that had made the mistake, he was sooooo appreciative..... for the most part I got along better with most Doctors... a few exceptions...
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • DanChamberlainDanChamberlain Senior Member Posts: 3,353 Senior Member
    I went "into" nursing at age 52! Most nurses enter the profession at 20 or 22. They are easily intimidated and they never really lose that fear of the "god doctor" complex. We have a lot of good docs in the hospital, but some of them treat the nurses like crap. I've encountered three who I've had to explain the art of civil discourse to. So far, none of them have tried to take it farther than the nurses station. I don't go out of my way to start trouble...unless they're liberal.

    Dan
    It's a source of great pride for me, that when my name is googled, one finds book titles and not mug shots. Daniel C. Chamberlain
  • scottieg59scottieg59 New Member Posts: 9 New Member
    This all does not make me feel any better around doctors or nurses. Over the years, I have been lied to by a few.

    Honesty and ethics is a problem everywhere.

    In my business, I have learned to be tactful when dealing with others, whether I am accused or accusing. When I was younger, I was easily angered when my integrity and loyalty was questioned.

    When the stakes are high, one needs a thick skin; the scrutiny goes with the job.
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    Dan did not object to scrutiny, he objected to a false accusation, it is well that he cleared it up.... BTW, that Doctor had no business looking at that chart, it was not his patient.... Physicians are granted professional courtesy, not immunity from interfering with patient care...
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • avmechavmech Senior Member Posts: 858 Senior Member
    Was the idjit Dr. Howard, Dr. Fine or Dr. Howard?

    More like Dr Killpatient.....
    NRA Benefactor Member
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,553 Senior Member
    A prick by any other name is still a prick, and they come in all sizes and shapes, with and without 'credentials.' I've experienced the same type of behavior from engineers, some of whom were brilliant at their work, and some not. I have never backed down from a bully and I have won some and lost some, but my integrity has remained intact.

    The bottom line is that 'superior' knowledge, skills, or education does not give anyone the right to be disrespectful to someone who is conscientiously performing their duties. One has to initially assume that a person is being conscientious, unless there is blatant evidence to the contrary. That doesn't mean that you don't ask questions and check and double-check the important things - it just means you do not behave in a disrespectful or accusing manner until you have evidence that has been properly verified.

    I have no problem with big egos, as long as they are kept in check. But a person who attempts to inflate himself by diminishing someone else's reputation should meet some very determined and sustained resistance, until they back off. I think Dan handled his situation well, without escalating the situation unnecessarily.
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,985 Senior Member
    I have a friend who is a male nurse for the VA and he lights into the docs/nurses when he feels they aren't doing all they can for the Vets. He was offered $10 an hour more to work in a regular hospital, but turned it down so he could work with Vets, he is one himself.

    I was a little indignant last week when I went to see my Elctrophysiologist. First you check in, then go get an EKG prior to seeing the heart doc (usual SOP) . Anyway to make a long story short they give you disc with lights/buzzer that goes off and you meet the tech/nurse at the door and they ask you some questions (DOB/address...again) as they walk you to the EKG area down a long hallway.

    So I get buzzed and greeted by a gal at the door, she says turn left and go straight. I thought she was right behind me and start walking. Unknowing to me she gets held up at the door for some reason. A door opens and out comes a doc and he immediately starts grilling me with questions asking me what I'm looking for, why I'm in there unescorted and so forth.

    I tell him I there because my buzzer went off and the nurse let me in, he say what nurse and I say say the one who opened the door for me. I then turn around and see she isn't behind me. For some reason he just rubbed me wrong that afternoon.This goes on for a minute or so and I'll just say my answers were truthful, but I was purposely giving him answers that irritated him because he wasn't polite (as most are and have been).

    Finally the nurse/tech comes around the corner and I say there you are and Dr Inquisition shuts up. I understand the reason for asking, patient privacy (rooms/curtains open) and they don't want folks wandering around unescorted and they have had a shooting there in the emergency room a few months ago. However this guy really wooled me wrong. Most I run into are very polite/professional/helpful , but this guy was treating me like I broke in to steal something or cause trouble and I felt like his attitude and behavior was uncalled for and I responded in a manner that probably irked the living feces outta him on purpose, I was sorta playing with him and spun him up pretty good.:devil:

    I know, I probably should be ashamed of myself and don't know what kind of day or night the feller has had or what troubles were on his mind, but I just couldn't help myself. I don't remember all the to and fro conversation or if he was close to hitting a buzzer in pocket for security.

    The bright side is my EKG was good, Beta Blockers seem to be working and keeping my VT and BP in check and the heart doc says he doesn't need to see me for another 6 months.:guns:
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • DanChamberlainDanChamberlain Senior Member Posts: 3,353 Senior Member
    Scottie

    "when the stakes are high" you'll get no argument from me. After the stakes are lowered a bit and the temp cools, I have no problem telling a doc to be very careful in the future how he/she address me and the rest of the staff trying to perform to their expectations. Tact and diplomacy have always been one of my strong points when necessary. Another strong point is my ability to speak clearly and succinctly when telling someone they've crossed a line their brains should have told them not to. Once a major put his hands on me in a threatening manner. I told him "Remove your hand or you will be personally embarrassed in front of your crew." Life is too short to let someone diminish you for their own enjoyment. I won't let strangers treat waitresses like crap either.

    Regards

    Dan
    It's a source of great pride for me, that when my name is googled, one finds book titles and not mug shots. Daniel C. Chamberlain
  • BuffcoBuffco Senior Member Posts: 6,243 Senior Member
    scottieg59 wrote: »
    When I was younger, I was easily angered when my integrity and loyalty was questioned.

    Well, Dan is just a young buck. Perhaps when he gets a little older, he'll be able to control himself better.
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 18,672 Senior Member
    Good job Dan :up:
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • bruchibruchi Senior Member Posts: 2,582 Senior Member
    I see what you did there, at least I think I do...

    EDIT - Oops you did indeed explain it.

    +1, sarcasm is lost in this forum.
    If this post is non welcomed, I can always give you a recipe for making "tostones".
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 6,461 Senior Member
    I went "into" nursing at age 52! Most nurses enter the profession at 20 or 22. They are easily intimidated and they never really lose that fear of the "god doctor" complex. We have a lot of good docs in the hospital, but some of them treat the nurses like crap. I've encountered three who I've had to explain the art of civil discourse to. So far, none of them have tried to take it farther than the nurses station. I don't go out of my way to start trouble...unless they're liberal.

    Dan
    Must be the new age nurses. My mother was a nurse and I just dont see that happining, for long. I know that in her last position Doc's would practice avoidence when she wanted something. She would pleasantly bludgeon them until they were paste. Between that and working on a blacktop crew, Parris Island wasn't that bad.
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • calebibcalebib Senior Member Posts: 1,701 Senior Member
    My wife makes surgeons shake in their little paper booties on a daily basis!

    Ky7rr
  • calebibcalebib Senior Member Posts: 1,701 Senior Member
    This photo was supposed to accompany my previous post.

    Ky7rrl.jpg
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