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Thinking about an NFA trust

timctimc Senior MemberPosts: 6,684 Senior Member
Any of you Texas members have an NFA trust? Did you do it yourself or did somene do it for you? If you had it done who did it for you? I would like to find a good gun lawyer to do one for me.
timc - formerly known as timc on the last G&A forum and timc on the G&A forum before that and the G&A forum before that.....
AKA: Former Founding Member
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Replies

  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 12,042 Senior Member
    I do. I used the free trust that you get with a copy of Microsoft Willmaker. It was very easy.
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • WeatherbyWeatherby Senior Member Posts: 4,953 Senior Member
    I have no idea exactly what your talking about but if you need one I can volunteer as a beneficiary.
  • timctimc Senior Member Posts: 6,684 Senior Member
    bullsi1911 wrote: »
    I do. I used the free trust that you get with a copy of Microsoft Willmaker. It was very easy.

    I have a buddy that went this way but I have read so much about possible erros causing problems down the road I am just leary of going that route.
    timc - formerly known as timc on the last G&A forum and timc on the G&A forum before that and the G&A forum before that.....
    AKA: Former Founding Member
  • timctimc Senior Member Posts: 6,684 Senior Member
    Weatherby wrote: »
    I have no idea exactly what your talking about but if you need one I can volunteer as a beneficiary.

    National Firearms Act trust so you can purchase NFA weapons and devices. and I'll keep you in mind.
    timc - formerly known as timc on the last G&A forum and timc on the G&A forum before that and the G&A forum before that.....
    AKA: Former Founding Member
  • ilove22silove22s Senior Member Posts: 1,507 Senior Member
    this is jmo, but i would go with a lawyer that has done them before and KNOWS the pros/cons. im sure you can do just fine with a canned program, but they cant answer questions.

    i was talking to a trust lawyer that specialized in NFA trusts and it was an informative talk. iirc, the cost of his services wasnt bad either.
    The ears never lie.

    - Don Burt
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,577 Senior Member
    timc wrote: »
    Any of you Texas members have an NFA trust? Did you do it yourself or did somene do it for you? If you had it done who did it for you? I would like to find a good gun lawyer to do one for me.

    I used www.guntrustlawyer.com, David Goldman, attorney. Please bear in mind I am not advertising for him, just reviewing his services. Mr. Goldman is a "gun trust attorney" and if he can't produce a document legal for use in Texas, I am sure he can point you to someone who can; though I am fairly sure his firm is licensed in all states.

    The price is high--very high. However, after reviewing the trust (I read it in its entirety, something like 18 pages) I found that it was very thorough and outlines all possibilities for which the trust may be needed, wills, benefactors, revoking the trust, etc, etc. Furthermore, it comes with amendment pages already formatted for adding beneficiaries to the trust and the trust in its entirety is just a "fill in the blank" and notarize kind of thing.

    It was not cheap by any means, but he is nationally recognized and numerous co-workers here of mine have used his service. They will answer all your questions, by email or phone, and help you out with anything you might need. Furthermore, his website is a plethora of information about NFA ownership in various states as well as PDF examples of the forms filled out, etc. Very helpful. He also discounts the trust cost for military/LEO.

    -Jason
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    Paul has done research on them, he posted about it not long ago IIRC....
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • timctimc Senior Member Posts: 6,684 Senior Member
    I sent an email to this guy, has anyone heard of him? His website looks good, a lot of information on there. He is a Houston attorney and also owns a gun business.

    http://texasnfatrust.com/index.htm
    timc - formerly known as timc on the last G&A forum and timc on the G&A forum before that and the G&A forum before that.....
    AKA: Former Founding Member
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,577 Senior Member
    timc wrote: »
    I sent an email to this guy, has anyone heard of him? His website looks good, a lot of information on there. He is a Houston attorney and also owns a gun business.

    http://texasnfatrust.com/index.htm

    Seems legit. I'd call him though.

    But the picture of him shooting the 240B with a cigar in his mouth sold me. :tooth:
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • timctimc Senior Member Posts: 6,684 Senior Member
    JasonMPD wrote: »
    Seems legit. I'd call him though.

    But the picture of him shooting the 240B with a cigar in his mouth sold me. :tooth:

    I talked with him on the phone a little while ago, he seems like a really nice guy. The price for the trust was very reasonable so we have the wheels in motion and in a couple of days I should have all the paperwork done. He would fit in well here, he is pretty much a gun nut too!

    Best thing is the wife is all good with it so if mamma is happy we all is happy! Next move will be to get my suppressors ordered and form 4's filled out. I think this is going to be a reallly good Christmas for daddy this year!!!!
    timc - formerly known as timc on the last G&A forum and timc on the G&A forum before that and the G&A forum before that.....
    AKA: Former Founding Member
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,577 Senior Member
    timc wrote: »
    I talked with him on the phone a little while ago, he seems like a really nice guy. The price for the trust was very reasonable so we have the wheels in motion and in a couple of days I should have all the paperwork done. He would fit in well here, he is pretty much a gun nut too!

    Best thing is the wife is all good with it so if mamma is happy we all is happy! Next move will be to get my suppressors ordered and form 4's filled out. I think this is going to be a reallly good Christmas for daddy this year!!!!

    My trust was kind of expensive, but I know I paid a little bit for his popularity here in Florida. But, in the end, I don't mind. It is expertly drafted, tried and true. PLUS, mine came with a separate additions sheet that allows me to add basically whichever firearm I want to it without amending the main trust document.

    I think you will enjoy going the trust route versus personal registration.
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • timctimc Senior Member Posts: 6,684 Senior Member
    JasonMPD wrote: »
    My trust was kind of expensive, but I know I paid a little bit for his popularity here in Florida. But, in the end, I don't mind.

    I think you will enjoy going the trust route versus personal registration.

    Well I didn't say this guy was cheap just reasonable for an attorney. Yes I think I'm better of going with an attorney over trying to do it myself. Of course it is a moot point since he already has my credit card number.
    timc - formerly known as timc on the last G&A forum and timc on the G&A forum before that and the G&A forum before that.....
    AKA: Former Founding Member
  • jbp-ohiojbp-ohio Senior Member Posts: 10,663 Senior Member
    I also need to get this started soon. Maybe I'll some use of my big Vegas winnings next month...... It's gotta be easy, everyone I know that has come back from Vegas has always claimed to have won something.
    "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson
  • timctimc Senior Member Posts: 6,684 Senior Member
    jbp-ohio wrote: »
    I also need to get this started soon. Maybe I'll some use of my big Vegas winnings next month...... It's gotta be easy, everyone I know that has come back from Vegas has always claimed to have won something.

    Better off just iving your money to a attorney for your tust, at least that way your expecting to give away your money which is always better than a supprise.
    timc - formerly known as timc on the last G&A forum and timc on the G&A forum before that and the G&A forum before that.....
    AKA: Former Founding Member
  • ghostsniper1ghostsniper1 Banned Posts: 2,645 Senior Member
    What benefit does a trust have? Just curious. Does it bypass the $200 tax stamp or something? And I thought that a trust had money in it or something.
  • jbp-ohiojbp-ohio Senior Member Posts: 10,663 Senior Member
    What benefit does a trust have? Just curious. Does it bypass the $200 tax stamp or something? And I thought that a trust had money in it or something.

    IIRC it bypasses the need to get the signature of your Chief law enforcement official on your application.....
    "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson
  • bhl2506bhl2506 Senior Member Posts: 2,027 Senior Member
    Jason Thank you for posting that info. It's something I will be looking into.


    DocterWho Which Paul are you talking about? (Knitepoet?)
    Refusing to conform to the left wing mantra of political correctness by insisting on telling the truth does not make you a loud mouth.
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    Yes, Knitepoet....
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • timctimc Senior Member Posts: 6,684 Senior Member
    jbp-ohio wrote: »
    IIRC it bypasses the need to get the signature of your Chief law enforcement official on your application.....

    Also bypasses the fingerprints and photos part too. The trust also makes it much easier for family members to sell or possess in the event of your demise. because the trust owns the NFA items. Mine is set up with me as Settlor, my wife as trustee and my daughter as Beneficiary. Trustees can be added and removed at will.
    timc - formerly known as timc on the last G&A forum and timc on the G&A forum before that and the G&A forum before that.....
    AKA: Former Founding Member
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,577 Senior Member
    What benefit does a trust have? Just curious. Does it bypass the $200 tax stamp or something? And I thought that a trust had money in it or something.

    The trust route does bypass the CLEO sign-off and fingerprint requirement. The ONLY thing that bypasses the $200 tax stamp is if the NFA item is being purchased by a local, state or government entity and/or LE agency. The trust does have money in it...sorta.

    Here is what you do:

    1. Establish a revocable trust (through an attorney, or other source) w/you as primary trustee and name some other trustees (like family)
    2. Establish a bank account in the name of the TRUST, you are trustee
    3. Get checks in the name of the TRUST, with you as trustee (so NFA stuff you buy is purchased by the trust)
    4. Either transfer through an FFL an item on a Form 4 or manufacture an NFA item on a Form 1.
    5. Send the BATF your trust and form 1 or 4, plus any other required paperwork, pay $200.
    6. Wait.
    7. Enjoy.

    The true benefit of the trust is this: the TRUST owns the NFA item and in the even you die, become incapacitated or lose ability to possess the NFA item, another trustee listed on the trust can take possession of the NFA item. It also makes it easy to heir the firearm. AND additional people can be added to the trust in the future with a trust amendment.

    If you register it to yourself personally, YOU are the only person legally allowed by federal law to possess the NFA item. This includes just HOLDING the rifle. If you hand it to your friend to shoot at the range, he is now in unlawful possession of the firearm and you just allowed an unqualified person to possess it. You both could be charged federally. If every member of the trust has a copy of the trust document, then whoever holds the rifle is lawfully in possession of it.

    ALSO, you can add other guns in your collection to the trust, not just NFA weapons. The trust is just the best way to go.

    -Jason
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • ghostsniper1ghostsniper1 Banned Posts: 2,645 Senior Member
    JasonMPD wrote: »
    The trust route does bypass the CLEO sign-off and fingerprint requirement. The ONLY thing that bypasses the $200 tax stamp is if the NFA item is being purchased by a local, state or government entity and/or LE agency. The trust does have money in it...sorta.

    Here is what you do:

    1. Establish a revocable trust (through an attorney, or other source) w/you as primary trustee and name some other trustees (like family)
    2. Establish a bank account in the name of the TRUST, you are trustee
    3. Get checks in the name of the TRUST, with you as trustee (so NFA stuff you buy is purchased by the trust)
    4. Either transfer through an FFL an item on a Form 1 or manufacture an NFA item on a Form 4.5. Send the BATF your trust and form 1 or 4, plus any other required paperwork, pay $200.
    6. Wait.
    7. Enjoy.

    The true benefit of the trust is this: the TRUST owns the NFA item and in the even you die, become incapacitated or lose ability to possess the NFA item, another trustee listed on the trust can take possession of the NFA item. It also makes it easy to heir the firearm. AND additional people can be added to the trust in the future with a trust amendment.

    If you register it to yourself personally, YOU are the only person legally allowed by federal law to possess the NFA item. This includes just HOLDING the rifle. If you hand it to your friend to shoot at the range, he is now in unlawful possession of the firearm and you just allowed an unqualified person to possess it. You both could be charged federally. If every member of the trust has a copy of the trust document, then whoever holds the rifle is lawfully in possession of it.

    ALSO, you can add other guns in your collection to the trust, not just NFA weapons. The trust is just the best way to go.

    -Jason
    So you get the NFA item before the tax stamp??? I thought you couldn't possess it before having the stamp?
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,577 Senior Member
    So you get the NFA item before the tax stamp??? I thought you couldn't possess it before having the stamp?

    If transferring through the Form 4, the LGS will hold it until the paperwork comes in, then you take possession. If manufacturing on a Form 1, like I am, you register the lower receiver (AR15 in this case) without purchasing the barrel. Once the paperwork comes back, you buy the barrel and have fun.
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • ghostsniper1ghostsniper1 Banned Posts: 2,645 Senior Member
    And for a person wanting to manufacture a supressor with the trust?
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,577 Senior Member
    And for a person wanting to manufacture a supressor with the trust?

    A bit sketchier. However, if I were to do it (though I'm not): I would manufacture the main suppressor tube, serialize it, add any other necessary markings, and register the tube. THEN after the paperwork comes back, manufacture the remainder. Possession of a suppressor in its entirety, or all the parts thereof, is not legal unless you have the thing registered.
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • bansheebanshee Member Posts: 33 Member
    Be careful what you name your trust if you ever want to do a form 1 "Application to Make and Register a Firearm". What ever you name it is what you will have to engrave on the the NFA item. I used my initials. ABC TRUST
  • timctimc Senior Member Posts: 6,684 Senior Member
    banshee wrote: »
    Be careful what you name your trust if you ever want to do a form 1 "Application to Make and Register a Firearm". What ever you name it is what you will have to engrave on the the NFA item. I used my initials. ABC TRUST

    The lawyer I used warned me of that so I kept it short.
    timc - formerly known as timc on the last G&A forum and timc on the G&A forum before that and the G&A forum before that.....
    AKA: Former Founding Member
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,577 Senior Member
    timc wrote: »
    The lawyer I used warned me of that so I kept it short.

    Ditto. Nothing extravagant. Just "mylastname TRUST".
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • tv_racin_fantv_racin_fan Senior Member Posts: 661 Senior Member
    JasonMPD wrote: »
    A bit sketchier. However, if I were to do it (though I'm not): I would manufacture the main suppressor tube, serialize it, add any other necessary markings, and register the tube. THEN after the paperwork comes back, manufacture the remainder. Possession of a suppressor in its entirety, or all the parts thereof, is not legal unless you have the thing registered.

    I don't believe you can build the tube without the stamp.
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 12,042 Senior Member
    JasonMPD wrote: »
    Ditto. Nothing extravagant. Just "mylastname TRUST".

    Same here.
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • timctimc Senior Member Posts: 6,684 Senior Member
    Yea!!! Trust is complete and notorized, now I just need to get my tax ID and my bank account set up then it will be time to check the couch cushions for change and see if I can afford anything!
    timc - formerly known as timc on the last G&A forum and timc on the G&A forum before that and the G&A forum before that.....
    AKA: Former Founding Member
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