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Shotgun Advise - Home Defense (Noobie)

teleman78teleman78 New MemberPosts: 3 New Member
Hello Fellas,

Glad to be here, I recently decided to purchase a Remington 870 Synthetic shotgun for home defense as there have been quite a few burglaries in my neighborhood within the last few months. My wife and I took it to the shooting range this weekend to try it out.. the range only allowed us to use 00 Buckshot. I though the recoil using this ammo was pretty bad for her, my wife only shot it maybe 4 times and then she got scared and said that her shoulder hurt. I want her to be able to enjoy shooting the gun as much as I do so I was thinking of purchasing a Tactical Style stock with a recoil impact absorption system, this way it can help alleviate some of the recoil when she shoots.

Here are the two I'm looking at:

http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/blackhawk-remington-specops-stock-k07100c-p-123776.html

http://www.mountsplus.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=MSP&Product_Code=118-ATI-A1101140&Category_Code=

They're both about $95, they both seem to have a recoil absorption system. Does anyone have any experience from using one or the other? What's your opinion?

I will also buy Rio Royal 00 Buckshot Low Recoil as I understand it does significantly lower the recoil for her. Any opinions on this?

Thanks guys!
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Replies

  • RazorbackerRazorbacker Senior Member Posts: 4,646 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Befor spending money on a new stock I'd buy a few cases of Federal (my favorite) or any other good quality low recoil/low flash tactical 00 buckshot. Also make sure her form is good when she shoots, If she is not snuggling that stock tighly into the hollow between her shoulder and collarbone it will punch you like Ali in the old days. A snug hold with a firm cheek weld and a slightly forward leaning agressive prosture will go a LONG way towards making it a LOT more comfortable for her to handle the recoil.

    Welcome.

    This is very good advice teleman. I've been teaching my girl shooting for HD/SD and we spent a lot of time on grip, stance, sight picture, trigger squeeze, etc before we did much actual shooting. Slugs and 00 buck are no holiday for most. Down right painful with improper technique.
    And welcome.
    Teach your children to love guns, they'll never be able to afford drugs
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 25,056 Senior Member
    You need to look at length of pull, if it is too long she will get slammed.

    Welcome aboard.
  • SirGeorgeKillianSirGeorgeKillian Senior Member Posts: 5,463 Senior Member
    Lets take it from the top... How big of a frame is the misses? Shotguns aren't one size fits all, and an improperly sized gun can cause discomfort! Any gunshop worth it's salt can measure her to make sure it is right. Next, look at your recoil pad. You would be surprised at what a quality recoil pad can do for felt recoil. Next, as was said above, make sure she is using proper technique. Hire an instructor if you aren't sure, but not sucking that stock into your shoulder will cause pain! Think of it as being punched, would you rather get punched with the fist starting an inch from you, or taking a full blown swing? And as Wambli said, ammo selection in a shotgun will also make a huge difference. Take her somewhere that will allow her to shoot some low brass bird shot. It will help her get used to running the gun without taking the brunt of full forced defensive loads. Then try some of that low recoil buckshot. And remember, smaller framed shooters arent going to enjoy spending long at the range shooting only a shotgun. Remind her that in a defensive situation, she isn't going to be going through an entire box of shells, hopefully just a few shells is all she will need.

    If the above doesn't help, try renting a 20 gauge. Who knows, she might tell you to buy her a new gun! And for the love of Pete, if you do end up buying her a new gun, let HER be involved with the purchase. Otherwise, you are taking a real shot in the dark with your money. There are a lotta guys who ended up selling a gun they bought for their significant others that ended up being not liked. I made that mistake once!

    Also, Welcome to the forum! Do you like gladiator movies?
    Unless life also hands you water and sugar, your lemonade is gonna suck!
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    I'm in love with a Glock
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,457 Senior Member
    Welcome to the forum!

    Agree with what Wambli said, too. Also, you could try some Federal Low Recoil 00 buck shotshells. They are around 200 feet per second slower that what you're shooting now, and that would reduce recoil a bit. A recoil shield worn over the shoulder also helps with the recoil. PAST makes some good ones, and there are others. On long shooting sessions with a shotgun, they sure make a difference.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • teleman78teleman78 New Member Posts: 3 New Member
    Thanks for the advise fellas, I will try having her shoot bird shot and have her improve her posture and technique a bit. I will purchase some of that Federal low recoil Buck shot ammo you guys talk about.

    Thanks so much again for your comments,
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    What they said or maybe get her a 20 ga. BTW .410s don't cut the mustard. You can almost and might be able to get a single shot Savage /Stevens in 20 ga as an extra shotgun for her for the same price as the aftermarket stock.. My first scatter gun in the early 70s was one. I think it was $49.95 at Sears. I put a $5 slip on recoil pad on it.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • LerchessLerchess Senior Member Posts: 550 Senior Member
    If you do decide to change the stock eventually, I would try them out first. I bought the Blackhawk stock and I did not like it. Some folks love it. I think its a definite try before you buy.
  • EliEli Senior Member Posts: 3,074 Senior Member
    Follow the advice above.

    My experience with the recoil reducing stocks is that you are trading out horizontal recoil for vertical recoil, the momentum still has to go somewhere.

    While yes, there is less felt recoil to your shoulder, no matter what kind of cheek weld you get, that stock jumps up and smacks the ever-lovin hell out of you cheek bone. After about 25 rounds it becomes very painful, and the next day it feels like someone has socked you a good one right under your eye.

    My favorite method for reducing recoil is using a youth stock, really squaring up to the target (facing the target directly, not bladed off like a wingshooters stance), and adopting a very forward leaning aggressive stance.
  • bruchibruchi Senior Member Posts: 2,581 Senior Member
    If the low recoil ammo does not do the trick also check the KNOXX recoil reducing stocks, they do an awesome job.
    If this post is non welcomed, I can always give you a recipe for making "tostones".
  • teleman78teleman78 New Member Posts: 3 New Member
    Thanks for all your awesome comments, definitely a lot to think about. BTW my wife is not petite by any means.. She's 5'10 about 130lbs so I guess I will start with having her try out target loads and birdshot loads for a while and get her used to shooting the gun, perhaps then we can try the low recoil Buckshot rounds.. Eventually I will look into one of these Tactical recoil absorption stocks.. But right now between the gun the ammo and the Surefire Flashlight with the mount I'm dead broke.. So we'll just try the cheapest options first.. BTW here is a picture of the Shotgun as it is right now. Thanks again!ImageUploadedByTapatalk1346811507.877522.jpg
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 26,896 Senior Member
    Oh come on! Nobody suggested he get a .410!!!!! I hear they make excellent defensive rounds. :jester:
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 9,047 Senior Member
    Zee wrote: »
    Oh come on! Nobody suggested he get a .410!!!!! I hear they make excellent defensive rounds. :jester:

    JUST. . .FREAKIN'. . .DON'T!!!

    Save your money on the gonzo stock. Federal Flight Control 00 buck will solve your recoil issues nicely. It's pretty much equivalent in feel to a medium steam trap load.
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • JeeperJeeper Senior Member Posts: 2,954 Senior Member
    Bigslug wrote: »
    JUST. . .FREAKIN'. . .DON'T!!!

    Save your money on the gonzo stock. Federal Flight Control 00 buck will solve your recoil issues nicely. It's pretty much equivalent in feel to a medium steam trap load.

    AGREED. Proper form and some low recoil 00 Buckshot will solve this problem. Check her for proper form/stance/hold, and have her practice with featherweight bird shot to defeat any urge to flinch. If you have to go elsewhere to practice 'cause they won't allow anything but buckshot at the range you've been going to, GO ELSEWHERE. Trust me when I tell you that shooting with featherweight AA loads will enable her to practice without flinching.

    Luis
    Wielding the Hammer of Thor first requires you to lift and carry the Hammer of Thor. - Bigslug
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 12,501 Senior Member
    Low recoil buckshot actually patterns better than full house buck. For a 12 ga., 1 oz shot loads will be very low recoil...depends on the shot load, not the shot size.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • mythaeusmythaeus Senior Member Posts: 831 Senior Member
    We (wife and I) share a Mossberg 500 Persuader. It came with a top-fold ATI stock with shell carrier (installed by the previous owner). Even with proper techniques, I was OK with it, but my wife absolutely hated shooting. The recoil is even harsher because it's basically hard plastic with that stock and the fixed length of pull was extremely uncomfortable. Even low recoil 00 didn't help much. Finally I replaced the stock with the ATI Akita stock. What a WORLD of difference! The stock absorbs recoil though not claimed to be "recoil absorbing), but the ability to adjust both the cheek weld height (tools required) and especially the length of pull (no tools) is outstanding. Here's a quick look: http://tpf-online.com/2011/05/30/ati-akita/ . I found the set for the cheapest here: http://www.manventureoutpost.com/products/Advanced-Technology-Intl%2C-LLC-AHS%252d0100-Adjust-Hntg-Stk%2C-Butt-Stk%2C-Forend.html

    Al
    "In a controversy, the instant we feel anger we have already ceased striving for the truth and have begun striving for ourselves." - Siddhartha Gautama
  • timctimc Senior Member Posts: 6,684 Senior Member
    I hava na 870 with the ATI Talon stock and it is still pretty rough with 00 buck. As said above you may want to drop to 20 gauge for her if recoil is too much.
    My little homeland defense BB slinger...
    870Tacticalfinished.jpg
    timc - formerly known as timc on the last G&A forum and timc on the G&A forum before that and the G&A forum before that.....
    AKA: Former Founding Member
  • bruchibruchi Senior Member Posts: 2,581 Senior Member
    You should also consider something like IDPA for training, don't thing they have "shotgun only" matches, they have 3 gun matches, shotgun, rifle and handgun but once you hear the beep of that timer and know that a crowd is watching you the recoil issue goes out the window, you might feel it next day some but while you are running the course of fire it will be entirely out of your mind, also you get some decent training while at it, much better than static shooting at paper at the range, it could even become "quality time" for you and your wife!

    Also whatever works, WORKS, be it the low recoil ammo or shock absorbing stock, even BOTH, don't pay attention to the "purists" on the forum when it comes to SELF DEFENSE issues where what only counts is that you deal properly with the situation and prevail.
    If this post is non welcomed, I can always give you a recipe for making "tostones".
  • Gators960608Gators960608 Member Posts: 47 Member
    Welcome Aboard!
  • BigDanSBigDanS Senior Member Posts: 6,992 Senior Member
    A 12 gauge pump has a pretty stout recoil. While you can get low recoil low flash shells, it is a physics thing. You are delivering a lot of energy, so you have to hold the gun and absord the recoil.

    Two options - Plan A - first get involved in a shooting sport for fun, like sporting clays, skeet or trap. It's a lot more fun to shoot something and break it than just shoot at a range. Recoil becomes a lot less noticeable when you are having some fun. It also gets the shooter used to handling the gun and the recoil. If you shoot three, 25 shot rounds of trap / skeet / clays and it is still an issue then plan B. FWIW I shoot an 870 for trap and it bruises my shoulder after a lot of rounds.

    Plan B - step down to a 20 gauge. At home defense range you must aim a shotgun. At 20 feet you may have a four inch pattern, and shotguns don't really open up their patterns until they are much farther out. So she must be capable of shouldering and aiming with accuracy at close distances, and a 20 gauge will be more than adequate for self defense at those ranges.

    Good for you taking the steps to be self prepared and defended.

    D
    "A patriot is mocked, scorned and hated; yet when his cause succeeds, all men will join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain
    Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
  • horselipshorselips Senior Member Posts: 3,628 Senior Member
    The recoil of a 12 gauge autoloader is much easier to take than a pump, and a 20 gauge autoloader much lighter still. Regardless of the capabilities of the 870 shotgun, if the user is not comfortable with it, it's useless. Maybe wifey is better off with a handgun she can master the use of than a shotgun that scares her as much as whatever went bump in the night. You don't want to be on the wrong side of my GF's KelTec PF30.

    BTW, there is nothing wrong with .22Magnum or .410 shotguns for defense. Not sure? Just shoot yourself with one. You'll be a believer. Mossberg makes a kinda cool Cruiser in .410. Might be just the thing for the little lady. Nobody wants to get shot with ANYTHING.
  • horselipshorselips Senior Member Posts: 3,628 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska - It's a great HD solution if it's what the Mrs. can be most comfortable and effective with. Remember we're not talking about what's best for us but what works for her. Regarding a drug-crazed Zombie eating a convenient face, I believe a couple of rounds from a .410 will be ample medicine to cure his inordinate appetite. As for a flash-mob style home invasion by many assailants, I have no doubt that the rapid discharge of of a Mossberg Cruiser's magazine tube would result in a quick change of plan. I know the 30 rounds carried in the magazine of my GF's KelTec PF30 would be terrifying. Home invaders are after jewelry, computers and drugs, and are rarely looking for a gunfight with an angry, desperate homeowner.

    My EDC CCW is a NAA MiniRevolver in .22WMR 1 5/8" barrel. Disappears in my front pocket no matter what I'm wearing. I never leave home without it. In the 25 years I've carried it, I've only needed to "brandish" it once. On that occassion, the other 2 "gentlemen" were happy to hastily depart.
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    Which end of the horse are those lips attached to?
    Jerry
  • SirGeorgeKillianSirGeorgeKillian Senior Member Posts: 5,463 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    IP check, please.

    Beat me to it. I smell the must of troll and 410 residue....
    Unless life also hands you water and sugar, your lemonade is gonna suck!
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    I'm in love with a Glock
  • horselipshorselips Senior Member Posts: 3,628 Senior Member
    Hold on there folks, the technology of home defense loadings has evolved quite a bit lately - cartidges once considered unacceptable have, of late, become quite deadly. I would hate to be hit by modern defense loading for .380ACP or even .32ACP. To some, 9mm was once considered marginal - nowadays nobody doubts its terminal effectiveness. As for the .410, even Gun Tests magazine in a recent test of .410 loadings had to comment that the Mossberg .410 Cruiser in a house or hallway would be a very effective defender. Getting hit by 3 .36 caliber 00 pellets at 1200 FPS is easily the equivalent of most any pistol round. Buffalo Bore has a .357 loading that Gun Tests considers suitable for protection against bears - where at one time even I would have insisted on a .41Magnum or .44Magnum.

    I am not a "troll" - I'm just open to new ideas and the evolution of modern ammo. And a horse's lips are always at the front - just ask Mr. Ed. He can really talk. I saw the TV show.
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    Welcome back- - - -I guess the ban didn't stick for some reason!
    Jerry
  • glockman0422glockman0422 Member Posts: 216 Member
    I agree with everything already said. If you do decide to replace the stock, I highly recommend Phoenix tactical Kicklite stock. I have the phoenix tactical stock on my 870 tactical and it works great. A lot better than the Knoxx stock. The recoil pad is also very soft and ventilated which make it very comfortable to shoot even 3" magnum shells.


    This is what it looks like installed on my 870 Tactical:

    870001.jpg



    Here is a video:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GksunnWGkY


    And here it is at a good price.

    http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/82583
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    Probably posting at work instead of home- - - -or the local public library!
    Jerry
  • WheresMyGunWheresMyGun Member Posts: 139 Member
    i use win low recoil 00buck in the house gun ............ recoils like a light field load
  • 5280 shooter II5280 shooter II Senior Member Posts: 3,923 Senior Member
    I turned a nice 870 Wingmaster into a HD Hall 'n blaster, and found the Knoxx recoil dampening stock really wasn't my cup of tea.....even with bird loads. Must be the extreme drop in the comb. With Winchester PD 00 buck, the headlight mount came flying off. So back to the Hogue stock with a Dead Mule on the mounting rod, and see how that does. Should find me some of those low-recoil shells, but they're pretty scare locally.
    God show's mercy on drunks and dumb animals.........two outa three ain't a bad score!
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,216 Senior Member
    If this is who I think this is, he has my respect for being persistent.:worthy:

    Anyway, here it is, Jerm's theory of the HD shotgun:

    In an older thread, BP did some range work showing what buckshot and slugs look like at HD distances. The shot does not spread at 7 yards! It will hit in the same general area as slug will. What is the point of buckshot then?

    You say that it prevents over-penetration? Go to Box of Truth and they will demonstrate that buckshot will penetrate a few walls, and slugs will penetrate a few walls. What it boils down to is that if you don't want to hit something on the other side of the wall, don't shoot!

    My conclusion is that if you can hit it with buckshot, you can hit it with a slug-- and the slug will do a better job of stopping the threat.

    Now that I have concluded that buckshot is essentially useless, let us talk about a .410. You gain nothing by using .410 buckshot, so what will the .410 slugs do? They will ruin your day! If that is what you got... use it. That said, the .410 slugs are inferior to a good 45 Colt load. But, you can get better performance from a handgun. The advantage of using a shotgun or long gun is to have something with more power. Using a .410 does not give us that. A 20 gauge or 12 gauge will. The whole over-penetration thing is a myth. Anything that is effective for HD will over penetrate. There is no such thing that will penetrate bad guys and not go through a wall that is worth betting your loved one's life on. It is time to bury that myth.

    If a .410 is what you have, use it. If you are very frail (being too frail to operate a 9mm, 45 Colt/ACP, 20 gauge, or 12 gauge), it may be a good option with slugs, but I feel that an AR would be superior. If you are not too frail and have other options besides a .410, there are much better ones out there.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
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