Officer shoots, kills double amputee in wheelchair in Houston

Big ChiefBig Chief Senior MemberPosts: 32,114 Senior Member
'Come On Man '??????????????????????

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/09/22/officer-shoots-kills-double-amputee-in-wheelchair-in-houston/?test=latestnews


HOUSTON – A Houston police officer shot and killed a one-armed, one-legged man in a wheelchair Saturday inside a group home after police say the double amputee threatened the officer and aggressively waved a metal object that turned out to be a pen.

Police spokeswoman Jodi Silva said the man cornered the officer in his wheelchair and was making threats while trying to stab the officer with the pen. At the time, the officer did not know what the metal object was that the man was waving, Silva said.

She said the man came "within inches to a foot" of the officer and did not follow instructions to calm down and remain still.

"Fearing for his partner's safety and his own safety, he discharged his weapon," Silva told The Associated Press.

Police did not immediately release the name of the man who was killed. They had been called to the home after a caretaker there called and reported that the man in wheelchair was causing a disturbance.

The owner of the group home, John Garcia, told the Houston Chronicle that the man had a history of mental illness and had been living at the house about 18 months. Garcia said the man had told him that he lost a leg above the knee and all of one arm when he was hit by a train.

"He sometimes would go off a bit, but you just ignore it," Garcia told the newspaper.

Silva identified the officer as Matthew Jacob Marin, a five-year veteran of the department. He was immediately placed on three-day administrative leave, which is standard in all shootings involving officers.

Houston police records indicate that Marin also fatally shot a suspect in 2009. Investigators at the time said Marin came upon a man stabbing his neighbor to death at an apartment complex and opened fired when the suspect refused to drop the knife.

On Saturday, Marin and his partner arrived at the group home around 2:30 a.m. Silva said there were several people at the house at the time. The caretaker who called police waited on the porch while the officers went inside, she said.

"It was close quarters in the area of the house," Silva said. "The officer was forced into an area where he had no way to get out."

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/09/22/officer-shoots-kills-double-amputee-in-wheelchair-in-houston/?test=latestnews#ixzz27F0JBJPk
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Replies

  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 23,295 Senior Member
    Two able bodied (assuming here) officers can't handle a double amputee in a wheelchair and shoot him? What a couple of Nervous Nellies! :bang:
    I may be a Deplorable, but at least I'm not a Liberal!!!



  • BufordBuford Senior Member Posts: 6,601 Senior Member
    I'm betting it will be found to be a justified shooting. Those double amputee folks are dangerous you know.

    HOUSTON – A Houston police officer shot and killed a one-armed, one-legged man in a wheelchair Saturday inside a group home after police say the double amputee threatened the officer and aggressively waved a metal object that turned out to be a pen.
    Just look at the flowers Lizzie, just look at the flowers.
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 6,697 Senior Member
    The guy's got a history of mental illness, and claimed to have lost his two limbs when he was hit by a train. Hmmmm. . .previous attempted suicide maybe?

    Might well have been a case of someone trying to get shot.
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 4,253 Senior Member
    Bigslug wrote: »
    The guy's got a history of mental illness, and claimed to have lost his two limbs when he was hit by a train. Hmmmm. . .previous attempted suicide maybe?

    Might well have been a case of someone trying to get shot.

    Way to blame the victim....
    The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me.

    Ayn Rand
  • GunnerK19GunnerK19 Senior Member Posts: 1,083 Senior Member
    De-escalation, totality of circumstances, use of force continuum. Did any of these options come to the Officer's mind before he opened fire?
    I'm a Conservative. How conservative? Only Alex P. Keaton has me beat.

    Taurus 605 .357, Ruger .45 Vaquero, Ruger 10/22, Colt frontier commemorative .22 SA
  • robert38-55robert38-55 Senior Member Posts: 3,621 Senior Member
    Sad story. I would consider this 'use of excessive force by LEO. It's going to get worse too!!!!!!!!!!!
    "It is what it is":usa:
  • DanChamberlainDanChamberlain Senior Member Posts: 3,135 Senior Member
    What kind of pissant police are we turning out today? I once took a knife out of the hands of a distraught woman by pinning her to the wall with a bar stool! Nowaday, they'd just shoot her.

    Damnable wussies!
    It's a source of great pride for me, that when my name is googled, one finds book titles and not mug shots. Daniel C. Chamberlain
  • robert38-55robert38-55 Senior Member Posts: 3,621 Senior Member
    What kind of pissant police are we turning out today? I once took a knife out of the hands of a distraught woman by pinning her to the wall with a bar stool! Nowaday, they'd just shoot her.

    Damnable wussies!

    Doesn't it seem like the general attitude is to "Shoot first,ask question later?"
    "It is what it is":usa:
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 4,253 Senior Member
    Police spokeswoman Jodi Silva said the man cornered the officer in his wheelchair and was making threats while trying to stab the officer with the pen. At the time, the officer did not know what the metal object was that the man was waving, Silva said.


    How in the hell does a one armed man drive a wheelchair AND make threats with a pen, I mean, weapon?
    The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me.

    Ayn Rand
  • coolgunguycoolgunguy Senior Member Posts: 5,932 Senior Member
    CaliFFL wrote: »
    How in the hell does a one armed man drive a wheelchair AND make threats with a pen, I mean, weapon?


    I wondered that myself...

    Mebbe the cop is a fan of Shakespear and remembered 'Twer mightier than the sword? :silly:
    "Bipartisan" usually means that a bigger than normal deception is happening.
    George Carlin
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 9,366 Senior Member
    CaliFFL wrote: »
    How in the hell does a one armed man drive a wheelchair AND make threats with a pen, I mean, weapon?

    Man, that sounds like a dumb scene from a slapstick cop movie.
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • cpjcpj Senior Member Posts: 38,309 Senior Member
    I know we were not there and shouldnt armchair quarterback this, but, really?
    "I'm here for the guns, hunting, and skirt wearing men."
    Zee
  • tv_racin_fantv_racin_fan Senior Member Posts: 617 Senior Member
    I asked my wife about this, she being a nurse in a home for nearly 30 years, has never seen anyone dial 911 over an unruly resident, unruly visitor yes but never a resident, they restrain and make arrangement for pickup and psych eval. She thinks this was way overboard.
  • MileHighShooterMileHighShooter Senior Member Posts: 4,509 Senior Member
    What kind of pissant police are we turning out today? I once took a knife out of the hands of a distraught woman by pinning her to the wall with a bar stool! Nowaday, they'd just shoot her.

    Damnable wussies!

    You'd probably get sued for everything you had these days. Police violence, sexual harassment...probably win the criminal trial but get your pants yanked down in civil court
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Once again, please refrain from cutting short any baseless totally emotional arguments with facts. It leads to boring, completely objective conversations well beyond the comprehension ability of many.
  • BuffcoBuffco Senior Member Posts: 6,202 Senior Member
    Wouldn't a one armed man in a wheel chair just go in a circle?

    Man, cops.... Glad they are all protecting and serving and junk.
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,063 Senior Member
    I'm going to tread lightly on this one...

    We had a similar instance where an elderly man with severe dimentia broke a picture frame and was threatening staff with a large piece of glass in each hand. He was originally hostile with us, but eventually sat down (probably because his frailty caused him to get tired/weak), but he continued to wield the glass pieces. We talked ourselves within ten feet of him and utilized a TASER to stun him while two other officers pinned his arms down and secured the glass.

    Old people, especially those with mentally degenerative diseases need to be considered in a different light.
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 4,253 Senior Member
    JasonMPD wrote: »
    and utilized a TASER to stun him while two other officers pinned his arms down and secured the glass.

    This is the type of situation that TASERs were invented. The one-armed man could've easily been zapped.
    The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me.

    Ayn Rand
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,063 Senior Member
    CaliFFL wrote: »
    This is the type of situation that TASERs were invented. The one-armed man could've easily been zapped.

    In the generalizes armchair quarterbacking of this incident, I would agree.

    SOME departments still do not carry TASERs. I am not sure if this is one of those departments.
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 23,295 Senior Member
    Don't officers carry batons anymore? An officer could have easily disarmed the guy with the pen if he'd had a baton and knew how to use it. Even one of the extendable ASP batons would have easily disarmed him. Might have broken his arm, wrist, or hand, but he'd have been disarmed and still alive.

    Had to use a baton on Shore Patrol a few times. Pretty effective in taking the wind out of the sails of a belligerent drunk with mayhem on his mind.
    I may be a Deplorable, but at least I'm not a Liberal!!!



  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 12,723 Senior Member
    Mike,
    From what I've seen, most LE don't carry batons. Too much space on the belt. On the other hand, an ASP is usually found.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 23,295 Senior Member
    Baton is way more versatile than the ASP. With a baton, you can easily introduce Mr. Bellybutton to Mr. Backbone. Or introduce the 'person of interest' to the floor, rapidly and forcefully, from either front or behind. ASP doesn't lend itself to that; it's good at what it does but isn't as versatile as the baton.
    I may be a Deplorable, but at least I'm not a Liberal!!!



  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,063 Senior Member
    tennmike wrote: »
    Baton is way more versatile than the ASP. With a baton, you can easily introduce Mr. Bellybutton to Mr. Backbone. Or introduce the 'person of interest' to the floor, rapidly and forcefully, from either front or behind. ASP doesn't lend itself to that; it's good at what it does but isn't as versatile as the baton.

    We carry the collapsable ASP. I've never used it. I have little confidense in it. I take that back, I have used it to move homeless people's dirt nasty clothes.

    I would love to carry, or have available in the car, a PR24.
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • BuffcoBuffco Senior Member Posts: 6,202 Senior Member
    After reading here about the dangers of of one armed, one legged men in wheelchairs, I have modified my defensive handgun training practices to prepare me for this threat.
  • shushshush Senior Member Posts: 6,260 Senior Member
    Buffco wrote: »
    After reading here about the dangers of of one armed, one legged men in wheelchairs, I have modified my defensive handgun training practices to prepare me for this threat.

    Keep on his good side/bad side and keep moving.:silly:

    cjp wrote: »..... Oh dear God, I've admitted to liking something Limey.I'll never hear the end of this.

    Jayhawker wrote: »...But seriously Shush....

    Big Chief wrote: ».........walking around with a greasy butt ain't no fun, though!

     


     

  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,063 Senior Member
    Buffco wrote: »
    After reading here about the dangers of of one armed, one legged men in wheelchairs, I have modified my defensive handgun training practices to prepare me for this threat.

    Shoot out his tires... wait... :uhm:
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 23,295 Senior Member
    JasonMPD wrote: »
    We carry the collapsable ASP. I've never used it. I have little confidense in it. I take that back, I have used it to move homeless people's dirt nasty clothes.

    I would love to carry, or have available in the car, a PR24.

    Don't blame you for wanting a PR24. There are times when they are really handy. Nothing says "Back off NOW!" like a really solid hit to the inside or outside of a thigh! :silly:
    I may be a Deplorable, but at least I'm not a Liberal!!!



  • KSU FirefighterKSU Firefighter Senior Member Posts: 3,238 Senior Member
    A hydrant wrench works well for that as well.
    The fire service needs a "culture of extinguishment not safety" Ray McCormack FDNY
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 23,295 Senior Member
    A hydrant wrench works well for that as well.

    Having hefted and used a few of those, I would have to agree with you. :up:
    I may be a Deplorable, but at least I'm not a Liberal!!!



  • GunnerK19GunnerK19 Senior Member Posts: 1,083 Senior Member
    Officer's have portable radios, couldn't a second unit have been called to assist? The first responding officer might have been able to bide time with Verbal Judo and the suspect until a second officer could arrive and restrain the guy from behind?

    Like I said before; De-escalation, totality of circumstances, use of force continuum. JasonMPD, isn't that still taught at police academy's?
    I'm a Conservative. How conservative? Only Alex P. Keaton has me beat.

    Taurus 605 .357, Ruger .45 Vaquero, Ruger 10/22, Colt frontier commemorative .22 SA
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