Home Main Category Personal Defense

2nd Amendment saves a guy. Too bad it was a small caliber.

JeeperJeeper Senior MemberPosts: 2,954 Senior Member
Wielding the Hammer of Thor first requires you to lift and carry the Hammer of Thor. - Bigslug
«1

Replies

  • Jack BurtonJack Burton Member Posts: 379 Member
    .380's suck! Just an opinion. :D
    Came for the fishing, stayed for the guns.
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,395 Senior Member
    Hmmmm..............Both bad guys ended up on the pavement leaking a vital bodily fluid. Not a bad outcome, IMO.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    Well, his .380 trumped the .25 auto that didn't even get fired. Yeah for the good guys in FLA..:applause::applause::applause::applause:
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 21,089 Senior Member
    Jeeper wrote: »

    He needs something bigger.

    Luis
    Potential "victim" and his GF go home safe and sound, BG goes to hospital and then to jail. Sounds like a win win to me :applause:
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • BigDanSBigDanS Senior Member Posts: 6,973 Senior Member
    My fear is that since we are becoming more armed, robbers will take to different tactics, like shoot first.

    "An armed society is a polite society" - Robert Heinlein

    D
    "A patriot is mocked, scorned and hated; yet when his cause succeeds, all men will join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain
    Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
  • BufordBuford Senior Member Posts: 6,713 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Why? The threat was ended successfully. At which point did the .380 fail?

    I was wondering about that myself?
    Just look at the flowers Lizzie, just look at the flowers.
  • BakermanBakerman Member Posts: 382 Member
    Look at the bottom of the article. There was another defensive shooting earlier in the week. A 25 year old tried the same thing and was stopped.
    Bakerman formerly known as Bakerman
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 8,251 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Why? The threat was ended successfuly. At which point did the .380 fail?


    Let's see. . .

    Taxpayers bearing cost of incarceration. . .

    . . .and cost of the trial. . .

    . . .and cost of the appointed lawyers. . .

    . . .and the as-yet unknown cost of whatever crimes the bad guys commit when they're released. . .
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • JeeperJeeper Senior Member Posts: 2,954 Senior Member
    Bigslug wrote: »
    Let's see. . .

    Taxpayers bearing cost of incarceration. . .

    . . .and cost of the trial. . .

    . . .and cost of the appointed lawyers. . .

    . . .and the as-yet unknown cost of whatever crimes the bad guys commit when they're released. . .

    PRECISELY my viewpoint. It saved him from being victimized that night, but not the rest of us taxpayers forever afterwards. >.<

    Luis
    Wielding the Hammer of Thor first requires you to lift and carry the Hammer of Thor. - Bigslug
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    Buford wrote: »
    I was wondering about that myself?

    And if he would have kept shootin after the perp went down like that Pharmacist did to make sure the BG was dead, he may have been charged himself. Don't get wrong, if the sleazeball had of died, I wouldn't have shed any tears fer him.

    He lives in FLA and lots of folks carry .380s/smaller CCW handguns. I'm just glad he decided to take it outta the car.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • gunrunner428gunrunner428 Senior Member Posts: 1,018 Senior Member
    The armed citizen here was only a few seconds away from a bad decision and a completely different outcome. A concealed handgun does you NO GOOD if it isn't on you when you need it. The selection of compact, lightweight, easy-carrying guns in effective calibers (.380 may be debatable here, but it did the immediate job of stopping the threat!) is a great thing these days.

    "Don't shoot me anymore, my gun's a fake!" was the underage (17) mugger's response, when in reality it was a .25, fully loaded and ready to go. Mouse gun maybe, but deadly with the right hit. Chalk one up for a win for the good guys. Might make the goofball kid think twice before trying this again after he serves his time. Room temperature might have been preferable, but let's hope the scars give the thug something to remember.
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 11,147 Senior Member
    Remember- we shoot to stop a threat. Not to kill. If sumdood dies while you are making him stop, that is a tragic outcome of sumdood's illegal and dangerous actions.

    1- If the guy was about to leave a .380 in the car, then a larger gun probably would have been left at home.
    2- This guy has never trained 'for real' and still managed to hit 100% on a moving target, under stress with a small gun with vestigial sights in the dark. Damn good job!
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • Jack BurtonJack Burton Member Posts: 379 Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Why? The threat was ended successfuly. At which point did the .380 fail?

    Just personal experience.
    Came for the fishing, stayed for the guns.
  • bobbyrlf3bobbyrlf3 Senior Member Posts: 2,543 Senior Member
    I can't think of a better example of why it's so important to protect the 2nd amendment. This incident also speaks to several points of concealed carry/personal defense that we profess to be paramount to making use of our gun rights. The victim took proper precaution, used a gun familiar to him, and used it effectively. The next book that comes out aboutself-defense and concealed carry/gun rights should include this incident.
    Knowledge is essential to living freely and fully; understanding gives knowledge purpose and strength; wisdom is combining the two and applying them appropriately in words and actions.
  • HondoHondo Member Posts: 320 Member
    I am just glad he had the .380. A .380 in hand beats a .45 at home.

    Mike
  • JeeperJeeper Senior Member Posts: 2,954 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    So he should have gone on and executed him? Since bigger bullets do not guarantee a kill that is about the only way that he could have prevented this guy from the future you GUESS is coming...

    Oh HELL no I didn't say that. Don't put words in my mouth. :nono: From the moment that he drops his weapon and is no longer a threat, you have no right to continue shooting him. To do so would make YOU a criminal.

    No. Bigger bullets do not guarantee a kill, but they dang sure make it more likely.

    Sorry if I seem pessimistic, but I see so many of these sorts of people (criminals) that I'd just about be willing to bet my paycheck that this particular perp (like so many others) has a long record already, and will continue to do so. Sadly, the odds are NOT in favor of him turning his life around and becoming a productive member of society. The odds are VERY much in favor of us continuing to support him for most of his life. :mad: Trust me when I tell you that it's my GUESS, but it's a damn good one.

    Luis
    Wielding the Hammer of Thor first requires you to lift and carry the Hammer of Thor. - Bigslug
  • BufordBuford Senior Member Posts: 6,713 Senior Member
    Jeeper wrote: »
    No. Bigger bullets do not guarantee a kill, but they dang sure make it more likely.
    Luis

    So much for the argument of gun owners wanting to stop the threat.
    Now we want to kill the threat. This sounds bad and does not help our cause.
    Just look at the flowers Lizzie, just look at the flowers.
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,395 Senior Member
    In both instances, the firing ended when the threat ceased. And that is how it should be.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 8,251 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    OR the guy potentially figuring out that a life of crime is a bad idea and turning his life around for good. Last I checked none of us can figure out the future and you never know why things happen. God has a plan for everyone.

    Yep. And right now there is a family of earthworms or possibly turkey buzzards somewhere starving to death because the ambulatory package of mis-combined DNA was merely dissuaded by a small caliber handgun. C'mon Wambli - have a heart! Think of the Wiggly and Beaky families' children!
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • JeeperJeeper Senior Member Posts: 2,954 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    No they don't and if you have information otherwise I would love to see it. The end results of this incident was positive for the good people and not so much for the criminal. The gun/caliber did it's job exactly as it was supposed to do it. To infer any further into the future of the criminal or a caliber based change in outcome is just pure conjecture and there is no way anyone can make a factual statement that would clearly justify the use of any bigger/badder caliber. The purpose of this forum is to educate people on self defense. This guy did it right, there is no reason to wish for any different outcome or second guess his choices of weapon.

    Sooooo... obviously your primary CC weapon is a .380 and you hunt moose with a .270? :jester::devil::guns: After all.... there is no evidence that anything any bigger is any more effective. Right? :popcorn:

    Luis
    Wielding the Hammer of Thor first requires you to lift and carry the Hammer of Thor. - Bigslug
  • JeeperJeeper Senior Member Posts: 2,954 Senior Member
    Buford wrote: »
    So much for the argument of gun owners wanting to stop the threat.
    Now we want to kill the threat. This sounds bad and does not help our cause.

    I prefer "Permanently stop the threat." Don't get me wrong... the guy did the right thing with what he had at the time. Kudos to him. Eh. You guys know what I mean, and there's no point arguing any further. We'll have to just agree to disagree beyond this point. Maybe when a guy comes after you with a gun with the possible intent to kill you and/or your loved ones (at the very least, the willingness to do so if you resist), you're perfectly satisfied if you manage to dissuade him and he goes his merry way to prey on some other poor soul or perhaps ruminate on the error of his ways and change his path in life at some later point, but I find it difficult to take such a forgiving attitude.

    Luis
    Wielding the Hammer of Thor first requires you to lift and carry the Hammer of Thor. - Bigslug
  • BufordBuford Senior Member Posts: 6,713 Senior Member
    Jeeper wrote: »
    I prefer "Permanently stop the threat." Don't get me wrong... the guy did the right thing with what he had at the time. Kudos to him. Eh. You guys know what I mean, and there's no point arguing any further. We'll have to just agree to disagree beyond this point. Maybe when a guy comes after you with a gun with the possible intent to kill you and/or your loved ones (at the very least, the willingness to do so if you resist), you're perfectly satisfied if you manage to dissuade him and he goes his merry way to prey on some other poor soul or perhaps ruminate on the error of his ways and change his path in life at some later point, but I find it difficult to take such a forgiving attitude.

    Luis

    Well somethings are better off not being said. I learned a long time ago to know your audience and that's impossible here.
    Just look at the flowers Lizzie, just look at the flowers.
  • JeeperJeeper Senior Member Posts: 2,954 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Nope, my main carry handguns are chambered in 9mm, .40S&W and .45acp because I like carrying the guns I own that happen to come in those chambering and they are all 100% reliable and I shoot them well. I hunt with whatever chambering is appropriate for the game but there is a big difference between picking a bullet for groundhog vs. moose so you have to move up as weight size and toughness of the critter increases. BGs for the most part are pretty close in size and all the good stuff is in the same place and not heavily armored.

    BTW the guy was armed with a .380 which is a decent enough SD chambering. With the right SD ammo there is not enough difference between it a 9mm for me to loose any sleep over. If they guy was carrying a .22 and he did 4 center of mass shots and the BG still came after him and shot him or his girlfriend we would not be having this discussion because I would agree the guy was under-gunned.

    While in my mind I do feel more comfortable with a larger caliber handgun for self defense I do not delude myself by thinking I'm better armed with a .45 as opposed to a 9mm. All that matters is where the shots land and how many of them I put down accurately. The article does not say where the 4 shots hit the BG. For all you know they might have been all hits to non-critical areas and a larger caliber would not have made any difference if that was the case. If he had landed 4 shots straight into the heart it would not have made any difference either.

    All I'm saying is that you can NOT guarantee a different outcome by just switching caliber and that the death of the BG, while not a tragic incident, is also not a necessary to a positive outcome in a SD situation.

    Hey if I'm packing my 1911 and a buddy has a kel-tec .380 in his pocket I'll be the first one to bust his chops about carrying a mouse gun, but I'll do it for fun, not as a serious discussion on SD because I have nothing to back it up as far as facts are concerned. That's all...

    :up: Now *that* I can agree with entirely.

    Luis
    Wielding the Hammer of Thor first requires you to lift and carry the Hammer of Thor. - Bigslug
  • bobbyrlf3bobbyrlf3 Senior Member Posts: 2,543 Senior Member
    Knowledge is essential to living freely and fully; understanding gives knowledge purpose and strength; wisdom is combining the two and applying them appropriately in words and actions.
  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 7,466 Senior Member
    Yes it is!
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    That there is funny :tooth:
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • Jack BurtonJack Burton Member Posts: 379 Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Ok being all mysterious-like only really works in bad movies. The purpose of this forum is to provide a way for members to exchange useful information and learn from each other's experience. It's OK if you don't want to share a personal experience with the crowd but making unfounded statements like "it sucks" and then shrouding that opinion in some obscure reference to some sort of personal experience does not add much to the discussion or your credibility.

    I look at it like there are plenty of quality 9MM's that can be pocketed just as easily as a .380. The .380 is just too under powered, but sure 4 hits did the job in this case, and probably would in most cases, but if it came to one hit, I'd want better averages. Wouldn't anybody?
    My basis for this is I personally know of an instance where a robber took one hit to the chest with a .380 hydra shok and still ran 50yds to his get-a-way car, his accomplices kicked him out at a gas station 4 miles away and a few blocks from a hospital. The bullet only just penetrated the rib cage and did nothing to his vitals, though I think it was said to have irritated one of his lungs.
    Came for the fishing, stayed for the guns.
  • I'm goneI'm gone New Member Posts: 15 New Member
    It's just good he had it with him, even if it was just a 380. I find it easy to think sometimes hey it's just Applesbee, D.Q. Wally World, the bank, they are safe , that won't happen in my town, what are the odds I'll need to carry to Home depot, good thing in the story he didn't leave his gun in the car or at home.
  • gunrunner428gunrunner428 Senior Member Posts: 1,018 Senior Member
    Even with several 9mm's with a close size to a .380 for concealment, I still would like to see a true 9mm as light and compact as, say, a Ruger LCP. They can be close, but all else being equal a .380 will likely be the lighter firearm, not to mention mechanically simpler in most cases. Most quality .380's in the past have been blowback designs (Walther PP, PPK, PPK/S, Beretta 84 come to mind quickly) where a blow-back 9mm is going to be a dubious performer for handling the pressures of the cartridge safely (Lorcin, Hi-Point, etc.)

    Personally, I'll dress to carry the firearm of my choice, so needing a pocket gun ranks pretty low on my list. I have been known to carry a K-frame S&W, 4" barrel, IWB all day long and forget it's there, and would still consider a Glock 19/23 as about the smallest in gun size I'd care to rely on, but the lighter guns have their niche where, as has been said, a .380 on hand beats a.45 left home.
  • Jack BurtonJack Burton Member Posts: 379 Member
    I think the other issue for some who feel a .380 would be preferable when wanting ultra concealability, lightweight, and comfort is that they don't try anything else first. Once you go with something like an LCP everything else would feel like a brick in you pocket or on your hip (even a Kahr CM9). Like taking practice swings for years with an aluminum bat before grabbing a Louisville slugger in the bottom of the 9th.
    Came for the fishing, stayed for the guns.
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    Dunno, after years of carrying 1911's, I would rather carry a substantial caliber, not that I have never carried wimpy calibers, I just keep reverting back to major calibers.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
Sign In or Register to comment.
Magazine Cover

GET THE MAGAZINE Subscribe & Save

Temporary Price Reduction

SUBSCRIBE NOW

Give a Gift   |   Subscriber Services

PREVIEW THIS MONTH'S ISSUE

GET THE NEWSLETTER Join the List and Never Miss a Thing.

Get the top Guns & Ammo stories delivered right to your inbox every week.

Advertisement