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.338 Federal and 210gr Nosler Partitions, "I can't get no satisfaction"

CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Senior MemberPosts: 14,183 Senior Member
Still shoots a group even with bumping the COAL back to 2.8, this is all pretty random for a 10 shot group. 200 yds off of a concrete bench with sand bag rests and minimal wind and low 50's.
IMG_36131.jpg

So, I got out my Savage 116 300 Win. Mag and my 180 gr Hornady interlocks doing 3000fps over some RL22 just to check my flinch.
The shot nearest the bull was the fifth shot fired and the flinch.
IMG_36141.jpg

So, I had 5 210 gr. Scirroco II's loaded the same as the Noslers.
IMG_36161.jpg

While I am flinching, the Noslers do not seem to be the ticket in this gun, any other suggestions would be appreciated, I am going to try some factory 200 gr Federal Fusions next.
I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
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Replies

  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 8,484 Senior Member
    Where were your first two or three shots at?
    Close to each other?
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Senior Member Posts: 14,183 Senior Member
    Top taget, just off the target at 6:00=#1, at the 3:00=#2, and then about 11:00=#3. Then I shot a couple more low and another high, I bumped the scope(leupold VX-II 3-9-40) up 4 clicks after that since I seemed to be getting a sort of group low, and then shot the last 4 up and down in the midline on and off the target.
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
  • beartrackerbeartracker Senior Member Posts: 3,116 Senior Member
    Sorry, but don't remember the rifle make you are shooting.
  • CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Senior Member Posts: 14,183 Senior Member
    Sorry, but don't remember the rifle make you are shooting.



    Sorry, this is the 3rd thread for this project, it is a Kimber 84M, Linefinder walked me through the process of working up a load on the ballistic software he has, I am using H332 and it was running the 210's just below 2500fps.
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 8,484 Senior Member
    So your first three shots was approximately 6" at 200 yards?
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Senior Member Posts: 14,183 Senior Member
    So your first three shots was approximately 6" at 200 yards?

    I'll take your word for it:bang:, but yes I would say so. I left the barrel dirty, it is at about 50 rounds since I cleaned it. Barrel was not hot, during the shooting, but was warm. It seems to open up the groups if it is shot hot, almost too hot too touch and beyond that.
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 8,484 Senior Member
    Scope?
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • beartrackerbeartracker Senior Member Posts: 3,116 Senior Member
    Your velocities are perfect for the 215 Sierra SBT on killing anything you want to with the 338Fed. TAC, 748, H4895 and Varget are great powders to work with. Also, the 180gr Nosler using IMR8202, TAC, Benchmark,Varget and H4895 will do very well. If these do not shoot well this might indicate you need something done to your rifle.
  • CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Senior Member Posts: 14,183 Senior Member
    Scope?
    CHIRO1989 wrote: »
    Top taget, just off the target at 6:00=#1, at the 3:00=#2, and then about 11:00=#3. Then I shot a couple more low and another high, I bumped the scope(leupold VX-II 3-9-40) up 4 clicks after that since I seemed to be getting a sort of group low, and then shot the last 4 up and down in the midline on and off the target.

    The Leupold above.
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
  • CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Senior Member Posts: 14,183 Senior Member
    Your velocities are perfect for the 215 Sierra SBT on killing anything you want to with the 338Fed. TAC, 748, H4895 and Varget are great powders to work with. Also, the 180gr Nosler using IMR8202, TAC, Benchmark,Varget and H4895 will do very well. If these do not shoot well this might indicate you need something done to your rifle.

    I was wanting to shoot the 200-225gr. bullets, closer to 200, since I have a .340 to shoot the heavier bullets. The Kimber did seem to like the factory Barnes 185gr TTSX(sp ?) loads when I first got the scope on it, but the scope came loose. I will look for those Sierras, thanks.
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,577 Senior Member
    Is there a .338Fed load for Varget? That crap is a cure-all.

    But seriously, 1:10 twist should be launching those 200-250gr buggers into a ragged hole. Just curious, but have you tried the Hornady 225gr .338 Interbond? They are very similar to the A-Max and that bullet out performs anything I have previously loaded.

    1:10 is a relatively, but not overly, fast twist. You might want to consider trying some 220-240gr pills. You won't be in the 3000 fps range anymore, but they'll wallop whatever you land them on.

    I would also take a serious look at Berger bullets. They make one .338 bullet right now, a 300gr momma.
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Senior Member Posts: 14,183 Senior Member
    JasonMPD wrote: »
    Is there a .338Fed load for Varget? That crap is a cure-all.

    But seriously, 1:10 twist should be launching those 200-250gr buggers into a ragged hole. Just curious, but have you tried the Hornady 225gr .338 Interbond? They are very similar to the A-Max and that bullet out performs anything I have previously loaded.

    1:10 is a relatively, but not overly, fast twist. You might want to consider trying some 220-240gr pills. You won't be in the 3000 fps range anymore, but they'll wallop whatever you land them on.

    I would also take a serious look at Berger bullets. They make one .338 bullet right now, a 300gr momma.


    The fastest you can push a 210-225gr bullet out of a .338 Federal is around 2500-2600, that I have seen, and that is at max pressure, I have not seen a load for anything over 225gr, you start to lose case volume. I might have to go with the heavier bullets, but I was trying to get a little more speed with the 210's.
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,577 Senior Member
    CHIRO1989 wrote: »
    The fastest you can push a 210-225gr bullet out of a .338 Federal is around 2500-2600, that I have seen, and that is at max pressure, I have not seen a load for anything over 225gr, you start to lose case volume. I might have to go with the heavier bullets, but I was trying to get a little more speed with the 210's.

    My bad on the velocities.

    Or, just for grins, try another 185gr load again. You said the Barnes did well, right?

    There is a Varget load or two as well:

    185 Barnes TSX over 47gr (compressed) for 2600 fps.

    210 Swift Scirroco over 46gr (compressed) for 2500 fps.

    225 Swift SP over 46gr (compressed) for 2500 fps.

    And Hodgdon is usually on the conservative side of velocities and max loads.
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • boomer68boomer68 New Member Posts: 25 New Member
    I would try the Hornady 225gr. Hornady's seems to shoot great in just about any rifle.
  • JerryBobCoJerryBobCo Senior Member Posts: 8,227 Senior Member
    I might as well chime in, as I have gone through this exercise with a similar cartridge. My 338x284 has slightly more case capacity, but that's because it has a larger diameter case. The case length, and overall cartridge length is still limited to approximately 2.8 inches, same as your .338 Federal.

    The longer 225 grain bullets such as the Nosler Accubond are simply too long. I couldn't even get them to seat without crushing part of the case shoulder. I even had that problem with the 200 grain Accubond.

    Like you, I tried the 210 grain Partition, but never really got the performance I wanted from it. I could find a load that gave decent accuracy, but was giving me slightly less than 2500 fps at the muzzle. I also tried 215 grain Sierra Game Kings, but never really got consistent accuracy with them.

    From the start, I wanted to try 225 grain Speer Grand Slams only to learn that Speer didn't make that bullet in that caliber/weight combination. About 2-3 years ago, they started making this combination so I tried it. That is what works best for me. I don't have my load data handy, but I know that I get approximately 1 MOA accuracy with a MV of nearly 2600 fps. I'm very happy with that.

    If you want my load data, let me know and I'll go dig it up.

    BTW, one BIG mistake I made was having the chamber cut long so that I could seat the bullet further out than I might normally do only to realize that it's the magazine length that is really the limiting factor. If I had to do it over again, I would have the chamber cut to accmodate a 2.8 inch or very slightly longer length.
    Jerry

    Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
  • CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Senior Member Posts: 14,183 Senior Member
    JasonMPD wrote: »
    My bad on the velocities.

    Or, just for grins, try another 185gr load again. You said the Barnes did well, right?

    There is a Varget load or two as well:

    185 Barnes TSX over 47gr (compressed) for 2600 fps.

    210 Swift Scirroco over 46gr (compressed) for 2500 fps.

    225 Swift SP over 46gr (compressed) for 2500 fps.

    And Hodgdon is usually on the conservative side of velocities and max loads.

    I figure I have my 300 Win Mag to push a 180 or so gr. bullet fast, I have the .340 Wthby for the 250's, I was looking to split the difference with the .338 Federal as far as bullet weight.
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
  • CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Senior Member Posts: 14,183 Senior Member
    JerryBobCo wrote: »
    I might as well chime in, as I have gone through this exercise with a similar cartridge. My 338x284 has slightly more case capacity, but that's because it has a larger diameter case. The case length, and overall cartridge length is still limited to approximately 2.8 inches, same as your .338 Federal.

    The longer 225 grain bullets such as the Nosler Accubond are simply too long. I couldn't even get them to seat without crushing part of the case shoulder. I even had that problem with the 200 grain Accubond.

    Like you, I tried the 210 grain Partition, but never really got the performance I wanted from it. I could find a load that gave decent accuracy, but was giving me slightly less than 2500 fps at the muzzle. I also tried 215 grain Sierra Game Kings, but never really got consistent accuracy with them.

    From the start, I wanted to try 225 grain Speer Grand Slams only to learn that Speer didn't make that bullet in that caliber/weight combination. About 2-3 years ago, they started making this combination so I tried it. That is what works best for me. I don't have my load data handy, but I know that I get approximately 1 MOA accuracy with a MV of nearly 2600 fps. I'm very happy with that.

    If you want my load data, let me know and I'll go dig it up.
    BTW, one BIG mistake I made was having the chamber cut long so that I could seat the bullet further out than I might normally do only to realize that it's the magazine length that is really the limiting factor. If I had to do it over again, I would have the chamber cut to accmodate a 2.8 inch or very slightly longer length.

    Whenever you get to it, i would appreciate it, I am going to check the factory ammo I have on hand now until elk season unless my LGS has something to try on Fri when I am there.
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 27,447 Senior Member
    You tried those 225gr Deepcurls yet?
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Senior Member Posts: 14,183 Senior Member
    JerryBobCo wrote: »
    I might as well chime in, as I have gone through this exercise with a similar cartridge. My 338x284 has slightly more case capacity, but that's because it has a larger diameter case. The case length, and overall cartridge length is still limited to approximately 2.8 inches, same as your .338 Federal.

    The longer 225 grain bullets such as the Nosler Accubond are simply too long. I couldn't even get them to seat without crushing part of the case shoulder. I even had that problem with the 200 grain Accubond.

    Like you, I tried the 210 grain Partition, but never really got the performance I wanted from it. I could find a load that gave decent accuracy, but was giving me slightly less than 2500 fps at the muzzle. I also tried 215 grain Sierra Game Kings, but never really got consistent accuracy with them.

    From the start, I wanted to try 225 grain Speer Grand Slams only to learn that Speer didn't make that bullet in that caliber/weight combination. About 2-3 years ago, they started making this combination so I tried it. That is what works best for me. I don't have my load data handy, but I know that I get approximately 1 MOA accuracy with a MV of nearly 2600 fps. I'm very happy with that.

    If you want my load data, let me know and I'll go dig it up.BTW, one BIG mistake I made was having the chamber cut long so that I could seat the bullet further out than I might normally do only to realize that it's the magazine length that is really the limiting factor. If I had to do it over again, I would have the chamber cut to accmodate a 2.8 inch or very slightly longer length.

    Whenever you can get to it, I would appreciate it. I am going to hit the range with the factory stuff I have on hand and see where I am at since i remounted my scope before I started all of this with the Nosler partitions.

    *Edit* Some kind of a double tap when Iwent to edit the post.
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
  • CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Senior Member Posts: 14,183 Senior Member
    Zee wrote: »
    You tried those 225gr Deepcurls yet?

    I have not looked for the bullets yet, I was holding out hope for the Noslers, I will see what my LGS has in stock on Fri.

    How long was the barrel on Jerms Ruger?
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 27,447 Senior Member
    I don't remember, 22" or 24" I think.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Senior Member Posts: 14,183 Senior Member
    I just checked 22", same as the Kimber.
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
  • snake284-1snake284-1 Senior Member Posts: 2,500 Senior Member
    JasonMPD wrote: »
    Is there a .338Fed load for Varget? That crap is a cure-all.

    I vouch for that. I've only loaded for three cartridges with Varget so my experience with it is limited. However, it has been very consistent in those. It may or may not be the hottest load for a certain bullet weight, but it gives very consistant velocities and smaller groups.

    Also, I vouch for Sierra bullets. I've had my best results overall with them in my 32 years of loading. That's both killing results, more one shot kills, and accuracy.
    I'm Just a Radical Right Wing Nutt Job, Trying to Help Save My Country!
  • CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Senior Member Posts: 14,183 Senior Member
    snake284-1 wrote: »
    JasonMPD wrote: »
    Is there a .338Fed load for Varget? That crap is a cure-all.

    I vouch for that. I've only loaded for three cartridges with Varget so my experience with it is limited. However, it has been very consistent in those. It may or may not be the hottest load for a certain bullet weight, but it gives very consistant velocities and smaller groups.

    Also, I vouch for Sierra bullets. I've had my best results overall with them in my 32 years of loading. That's both killing results, more one shot kills, and accuracy.

    Linefinder ran my numbers and H332 came out the best, just need to try some more bullets.
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
  • CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Senior Member Posts: 14,183 Senior Member
    knitepoet wrote: »
    QL "best" (aka fastest) isn't always the most accurate

    How do you use this program when you are starting from scratch?
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
  • DurwoodDurwood Senior Member Posts: 972 Senior Member
    The Kimber 84M has a pencil barrel. My Kimber Montana in .257 Roberts gave me a fit in working up a load that met my accuracy requirements. I finally got it to hold 3 shots consistently around 3/4" or 5 slightly over an inch... Some of my worst loads were in excess of 3" at 100 yds.
    You have the right to your own opinion, but you don't have the right to your own facts:guns:
  • DurwoodDurwood Senior Member Posts: 972 Senior Member
    Another thing that cost me a few extra range trips before I figured my Kimber Montana out---it only shoots its best groups when cleaned after no more than 20 shots.
    You have the right to your own opinion, but you don't have the right to your own facts:guns:
  • DurwoodDurwood Senior Member Posts: 972 Senior Member
    The last little quirk about my Kimber. When shooting groups it is extremely position sensitive--make sure it is on the bags/rest the same for each shot and make sure it isn't resting on the front sling stud. Hope this helps a bit.
    You have the right to your own opinion, but you don't have the right to your own facts:guns:
  • Six-GunSix-Gun Senior Member Posts: 8,155 Senior Member
    knitepoet wrote: »
    QL "best" (aka fastest) isn't always the most accurate

    Exactly. It took me a little while to figure this out when using this software. What QL's top recommendation does is give you the fastest powders in descending order so that if the #1 listing doesn't work well, you can cull it and any subsequent powders until you find the fastest powder that WILL shoot the bullet you're using within the limits of your satisfaction. Of course, some bullets may never get there no matter how far down the list you go, but it's a much quicker way to realize the velocity window you're after, with the bullet you prefer, than haphazardly picking a load based on completely different/random rifle setups used in the load manuals since the calculations are based on your actual chamber volume.
    Accuracy: because white space between bullet holes drives me insane.
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,244 Senior Member
    CHIRO1989 wrote: »
    I have not looked for the bullets yet, I was holding out hope for the Noslers, I will see what my LGS has in stock on Fri.

    How long was the barrel on Jerms Ruger?
    I sent you 10 of them to try. Use H335. What we found was that the 1:10 twist that they use works great at .338 Win mag velocities but is a bit slow for for .338 Federal. Use the shortest bullets that you can! The Deepcurls have no boattail nor do they have a long pointy point. It seems counter intuitive, but it worked for us. Short fat bullets-- not long and skinny!
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
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