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Police fatally shoot naked student at Alabama college

Big ChiefBig Chief Senior MemberPosts: 32,995 Senior Member
Come'on Man...................

What was the threat here to use deadly force? Did the kid have a sharp/pointed ****? What about just tackling the kid, using pepper spray, Taser or his nightstick? Why give them non-lethal tools to use if they don't use them?

I mean if the kid tried and take his gun or put some Karate on him or something, but seems there is a lot of this going down lately.

I remember In Tampa a few years ago a mother called 911 and said her son had serious mental issues and please send some help. He opened the door with a BBQ fork and the cops shot him dead. There are ways to deal with fruitcakes, they do it all the time in mental institutions without killing them.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/10/06/police-fatally-shoot-naked-student-at-alabama-college/?test=latestnews



MOBILE, Ala. – A police officer at the University of South Alabama has fatally shot a naked student whom authorities said repeatedly charged the officer.

University officials said the confrontation happened early Saturday morning when the officer went outside a police station to investigate a banging noise at a window.

Once outside, the officer was confronted by a naked man acting erratically.

Authorities said the man repeatedly charged the officer, who pulled his gun and retreated several times in an attempt to defuse the situation. When the man made a final charge, the officer shot him once in the chest.

The student has been identified as 18-year-old Gilbert Thomas Collar of Wetumpka.

Local prosecutors are investigating the shooting. The officer who fired the shot has been placed on paid administrative leave.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/10/06/police-fatally-shoot-naked-student-at-alabama-college/?test=latestnews#ixzz28c3C4cT7
It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
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Replies

  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 5,486 Senior Member
    After the "investigation" they will state that the cop acted within dept policy and they'll pin a medal on him.
    When our governing officials dismiss due process as mere semantics, when they exercise powers they don’t have and ignore duties they actually bear, and when we let them get away with it, we have ceased to be our own rulers.

    Adam J. McCleod


  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 24,713 Senior Member
    What if he had had a concealed weapon?
    Shut up-----KAREN; OK Cynthia
  • mkk41mkk41 Banned Posts: 1,932 Senior Member
    Dirty Harry shot dozens of people and never got put on "paid administrative leave"!
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    mkk41 wrote: »
    Dirty Harry shot dozens of people and never got put on "paid administrative leave"!

    Harry would just have punched his lights out or pistol whupped him into submission :rotflmao::rotflmao:

    I'm really not knocking the police, 99.9% of the time they do the right thing. Seems to a a trend lately to use deadly force.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,557 Senior Member
    Lone officer. Naked crazy kid. University cop, at that.

    What is early morning? 0300, 0500, 0700? Was it dark, light out, a well-lit area? Is that University PD equipped with TASERs or batons or spray? Did the kid say anything like, "I'll kill you", "I'm gonna get your gun", "Do you have any sugar?"

    I'm not saying the shoot was good or bad, I am just being objective.

    And by the way all police shootings are based on the reasonable objectiveness standard under which rulings are made based on "what a reasonable person may do in the same situation". Not necessarily what a "reasonable officer would do."

    For those of you that EDC your CCW and you were confronted by a seemingly maniacal adult male, nude, making several aggressive advances at you despite commands to stay back how would you react? And let's assume you are a MMA master, too. But you are ALONE, one-on-one with the dude.

    Like I said, I'm not going to champion one way or another about the shooting, but be objective before drawing a conclusion.
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • pbearperrypbearperry Member Posts: 91 Member
    Cops for the most part do not have super powers.Just because someone is naked and not having weapons that doesen't mean the cop is not in danger.If I was in the same situation and felt I was in danger of being seriously hurt or killed,I would shoot also.
  • EliEli Senior Member Posts: 3,074 Senior Member
    JasonMPD wrote: »

    For those of you that EDC your CCW and you were confronted by a seemingly maniacal adult male, nude, making several aggressive advances at you despite commands to stay back how would you react?

    :that:

    The guy in the wheelchair a couple of weeks ago was, IMO, from the facts given, a bad shoot.

    This one however, not so much. Crazy guy repeatedly tries to attack me, yeah, I'm probably going to put a round into him as well.
  • horselipshorselips Senior Member Posts: 3,628 Senior Member
    Sorry, but I'm with the policeman on this one. Just because the student was naked and apparently unarmed doesn't mean he didn't constitute a serious danger. Bare hands can kill or seriously injure. Just watch any Kevin Sorbo Hercules movie. Engaging in fisticuffs with a suspect can expose the policeman to many other dangers. What if the kid had a cold or flu? Why should a policeman risk catching that? Even worse, what if he had a communicable STD, AIDS or rabies and bit the officer? We spend a lot of tax dollars training and paying police officers and I don't want some misbehaving kid depriving me of that investment. Better to just shoot the perp.
  • ghostsniper1ghostsniper1 Banned Posts: 2,645 Senior Member
    That's what happens when you go running around with D & B hanging out.
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    Lot of unknowns so far. Shouldn't University Police be well versed in the crazy antics of some students, fraternity crap and all that?
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • DanChamberlainDanChamberlain Senior Member Posts: 3,395 Senior Member
    If I'm a 150 pound cop and the crazed naked student is a 280 pound lineman I might consider deadly force...but I'm gonna try my pepper or taser first. If the college doesn't arm its police with pepper or tasers, I'm gonna sue them for PSTD.
    It's a source of great pride for me, that when my name is googled, one finds book titles and not mug shots. Daniel C. Chamberlain
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    What's a college rent-a-cop doing with a gun in the first place? Most of 'em I've seen would be a danger to themselves, let alone anyone who gets in their way while armed. Either they're old and senile, or they can't pass the academy training course to get certified as a sworn officer!
    Jerry
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 11,150 Senior Member
    Teach wrote: »
    What's a college rent-a-cop doing with a gun in the first place? Most of 'em I've seen would be a danger to themselves, let alone anyone who gets in their way while armed. Either they're old and senile, or they can't pass the academy training course to get certified as a sworn officer!
    Jerry

    I don't know how it is in TN, but here, the Campus cops are a full fledged, real deal police department with TCLEOS certifications, powers of arrest, guns, and a nearly unlimited jurisdiction (Back when I studied such things, there were two kinds of police in TX that had nearly unlimited jurisdictions- Game wardens and Campus Police). I know other states do it differently, but in some areas, they are real cops.
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Senior Member Posts: 12,625 Senior Member
    Interesting to know if the officer could have just gone back into the building.
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    The FBI has proved that hands and feet have killed enough people, and as such a deadly threat can be posed by an unarmed subject....
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    CHIRO1989 wrote: »
    Interesting to know if the officer could have just gone back into the building.


    Or perhaps called and waited for back up...
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • Mr.FMr.F Member Posts: 89 Member
    It's hard for me to see the students side cause I don't think I have ever charged at a cop a few times while strutting around all naked . On the other hand it is a college campus & a naked guy should be routine business .
    DoctorWho wrote: »
    The FBI has proved that hands and feet have killed enough people, and as such a deadly threat can be posed by an unarmed subject....

    Don't let that info out or we will have masses of people calling for a global bans on hands & feet !
    Jermanator : You might talk about Tauruses around your wife, but that just doesn't fly in my house.
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,557 Senior Member
    Teach wrote: »
    What's a college rent-a-cop doing with a gun in the first place? Most of 'em I've seen would be a danger to themselves, let alone anyone who gets in their way while armed. Either they're old and senile, or they can't pass the academy training course to get certified as a sworn officer!
    Jerry

    Most University Police operate under the same charters as the municipal police agency in the area or are separately accredited by the state as a legitimate police agency. The University of Central Florida in Orlando, FL has the UCF Police--a legitimate police agency. The officers are academy certified and trained the same as any other road cop.
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,557 Senior Member
    DoctorWho wrote: »
    Or perhaps called and waited for back up...

    Wait for what?

    What is B/U is 30 seconds or more away and the individual is advancing on you in a very aggressive and hurried way? What can a person do to you in 30 seconds? 1 minute? 2 minutes?
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,557 Senior Member
    CHIRO1989 wrote: »
    Interesting to know if the officer could have just gone back into the building.

    So the guy could then run away and attack someone else potentially? No dice. Cops don't have the luxury of retreat.
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    JasonMPD wrote: »
    Wait for what?

    What is B/U is 30 seconds or more away and the individual is advancing on you in a very aggressive and hurried way? What can a person do to you in 30 seconds? 1 minute? 2 minutes?

    Perhaps the last time that happened to Me, the guy was armed with a machete, I was a LEO in the same country that patch is from.

    Choose not to engage the bad guy before it becomes necessary to dump a full magazine into him.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 7,398 Senior Member
    Authorities said the man repeatedly charged the officer, who pulled his gun and retreated several times in an attempt to defuse the situation. When the man made a final charge, the officer shot him once in the chest.
    With the cop on this one. Don't know if AL has a "duty to retreat", but the cop did, he made a attempt to defuse the situation and the "kid" (sorry, after 17 you aint a kid) kept coming, WHILE THERE WAS A GUN ON HIM. If the story is true, he had good reason to fear for his life. Absolutly a reasonable use of deadly force and clorine for the gene pool. You attack me butt nekkid and you will be ventilated.
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • SirGeorgeKillianSirGeorgeKillian Senior Member Posts: 5,462 Senior Member
    I look at it like this, give the cop a freaking medal. If after 18 years of life on this earth you are stupid enough to charge at a man with a gun pointed at you who is telling you to stop, while butt naked, you deserve one between the eyes. Score one for the gene pool, that guy is no longer stealing precious oxygen from the rest of us.

    It's not like this cop was walking around picking on all the naked people running around campus.
    Unless life also hands you water and sugar, your lemonade is gonna suck!
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  • CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Senior Member Posts: 12,625 Senior Member
    JasonMPD wrote: »
    So the guy could then run away and attack someone else potentially? No dice. Cops don't have the luxury of retreat.

    ? Of course they do. I was not there, but somebody's kid got buried. I treat a couple of ER nurses that deal with intoxicated college students on a regular basis, alot of these kids are just on their own for the first time and intoduced to some partying and they make a bad decision based on lack of experience that evening and ending up getting shot by a cop seems to be a bit extreme, no mace? No baton? no taser? . I always want an officer to remain safe and defend themselves, but there is some obligation to the kid and his family, unfortunately at the time the officer has to go with what he has not knowing the circumstances.
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    They need to re- issue cops them lead filled "Slap Jacks" they used to carry in their hip pockets, unruly folks were put down real quick with one thump to the side of their haids, lethal fore not necessary.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • GunnerK19GunnerK19 Senior Member Posts: 1,088 Senior Member
    Big Chief wrote: »
    They need to re- issue cops them lead filled "Slap Jacks" they used to carry in their hip pockets, unruly folks were put down real quick with one thump to the side of their haids, lethal fore not necessary.

    That's what ASP's and PR-24's are for; which begs the question, why did the officer not employ non lethal strikes with one to disable the kid? I don't care how tought the kid may be, several enthusiastic whacks to the thigh muscles might have sufficed enough to dissuage the young man from continuing his actions either by pain compliance or resulting physical inability...

    I'm really trying not to "armchair quarterback" this thing, but if I were the officer I would have exhausted EVERY other option I had to stop the guy prior to shooting him; sidestep, trip, baton, fire extinguisher, anything available short of shooting him...
    I'm a Conservative. How conservative? Only Alex P. Keaton has me beat.

    Taurus 605 .357, Ruger .45 Vaquero, Colt frontier commemorative .22 SA, Pietta 1860 .44 snubnose
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 7,398 Senior Member
    Perhaps when we stop treating 18 year olds like kids and coddling them like they are 5, they will make more proper decisions. Any blame for this rides with the parents and anyone who refers to a 18 year old man as a kid.
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • FL180FL180 Member Posts: 58 Member
    All this talk of filtering out the gene pool is terrible. This was a human being that lost his life you are talking about. Someone's son, brother, best friend, grand son, nephew. Maybe he was on drugs or drunk out of his mind, but it is still sad. Maybe he made a stupid mistake and took some drugs that made him act irrationally when normally he is a good kid. Maybe not, the fact of the matter is we don't know. There are very few reasons i believe a person deserves to die, and I'm not sure this kid was guilty of any of them.

    I also wish the police officer was able to stop this kid using less than lethal force. Who knows, maybe he did and it just wasn't reported in this story? I would much rather have had this end with a kid with a headache or bumps and bruises instead of a hole in his chest. But again we don't know what the officer was faced with. Maybe this officer didn't have a large muscular build. Maybe he was scrawny, or an older man that just worked the phones and radio overnight. Maybe this kid was the linebacker on the football team crazed out on drugs. We all know what someone is capable of under the influence of certain drugs. Pepper spray to the face or repeated blows to the body wouldn't faze them.

    Bottom line, we don't know exactly what happened. We weren't there and don't know the situation the officer was faced with. Don't get me wrong, I think it's a good idea to talk and discuss what you think you would have done should you face a similar situation, but lets not judge either one of the people involved in this story without knowing all the details. Whether or not this will be ruled a good or bad shoot doesn't dismiss the tragedy that happened that night.
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 21,093 Senior Member
    They just mentioned this on the local news @ noon. According to the Sheriff's office investigation, kid was on LSD had already assaulted 2 or 3 other students and attempted to bite another on the arm.
    http://news.yahoo.com/police-student-took-lsd-campus-shooting-172158429.html
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    knitepoet wrote: »
    They just mentioned this on the local news @ noon. According to the Sheriff's office investigation, kid was on LSD had already assaulted 2 or 3 other students and attempted to bite another on the arm.
    http://news.yahoo.com/police-student-took-lsd-campus-shooting-172158429.html

    Yes, and that still doen't justify the officer using deadly force, just because the kid was on LSD (Remember the 60s with LSD/STP and other mind altering drugs) and he didn't happen to have anything expect a gun on him at the time. Are our cops less trained today than 40-50 years ago? Why didn't he try and tackle him or get him in a hold of some kind. Don't hand me that Superhuman strength business either, the officer didn't physically try anything or had no way of knowing what drug he was on or not when he fired when the student got 5 feet from him. Maybe it was just a whole lot easier for him to shoot and now they have found an out.

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/10/09/police-say-alabama-student-took-lsd-before-was-shot-by-officer/?test=latestnews

    "MOBILE, Ala. – A University of South Alabama freshman wasn't armed when he was fatally shot by a campus police officer, authorities said Tuesday, and he had taken LSD, assaulted others and chased the officer before being killed.

    Mobile County Sheriff Sam Cochran held a news conference to release details about the death of Gil Collar, 18, of Wetumpka. The nude student was fatally wounded early Saturday after confronting the officer on campus.

    Collar went to a music festival and took the drug before assaulting two people in vehicles and attempting to bite a woman's arm, Cochran said.

    Authorities said Collar then went to the campus police headquarters, where he was shot by university police officer Trevis Austin. Austin is on leave while investigators review the shooting.

    Video taken by a surveillance camera showed Collar nude and covered in sweat as he pursued the retreating officer more than 50 feet outside the building, Cochran said. Collar got within 5 feet of Austin and the officer fired once, striking the student in the chest, Cochran said.

    Investigators are trying to determine who provided Collar with LSD and could charge that person with murder, Cochran said.

    While campus police typically carry pepper spray and a baton, Cochran said Austin was armed only with a gun during the confrontation.

    Cochran said he had "serious concerns" about the killing of an unarmed student when he first heard what had happened, but he better understood the officer's decision to open fire after watching the videotape of the shooting.

    "It's very powerful," said Cochran.

    Cochran said authorities will allow Collar's family and media representatives to view the recording later, but it will not be released publicly.

    Collar graduated earlier this year from Wetumpka High School, where a vigil planned in remembrance of the longtime prep wrestler will be held Tuesday night."



    Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/10/09/police-say-alabama-student-took-lsd-before-was-shot-by-officer/?test=latestnews#ixzz28pkrJccm
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
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