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Police fatally shoot naked student at Alabama college

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Replies

  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    Tell you what. Go find a local place that teaches Ju-Jitzu. (however the hell you spell it)
    Spend some time getting your butt handed to you, then re-assess your thoughts on this matter. I can promise you that you can be on the ground, with your lights going dim as an "unarmed" man chokes you out before you know what hit you.

    I never said someone trained in the Martial Arts can't put you/me down. The point still remains that cop didn't know anything of what that kid was/was not capable of.

    Was a 911 call made saying there was a "Bruce Lee" type running around naked ripping out peoples hearts?

    Nope, just a naked kid.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • gunrunner428gunrunner428 Senior Member Posts: 1,018 Senior Member
    Big Chief wrote: »
    Was a 911 call made saying there was a "Bruce Lee" type running around naked ripping out peoples hearts?

    Nope, just a naked kid.

    Who had, reportedly, already assaulted two (or more) other victims, including at least an attempted bite. Without detailed access to this guy's medical and psychological history, how is the officer supposed to construe repeated charges towards him from this guy?

    A human bite in and of itself can be a pretty nasty thing. Factor in hepatitis, AIDS/HIV, and a host of other potential nastiness, and a bite can be construed as an attack with a deadly weapon.
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    Naked kid ??? tell that to the NYCPD Lt. that got critically injured by three unarmed 13 year old "kids" in front of his home, he went outside to tell them to quit making so much noise, and the teens proceeded to smash his face badly enough to require major plastic surgery and lots of hardware...
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    DoctorWho wrote: »
    Naked kid ??? tell that to the NYCPD Lt. that got critically injured by three unarmed 13 year old "kids" in front of his home, he went outside to tell them to quit making so much noise, and the teens proceeded to smash his face badly enough to require major plastic surgery and lots of hardware...

    It wasn't three kids, it was one who was naked on a college campus and he didn't touch the cop.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • KSU FirefighterKSU Firefighter Senior Member Posts: 3,249 Senior Member
    I know that the kid was not carrying a knife, but, I still think this has some application in this instance. Go to the last 40 seconds of the video.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRA5FBtbHHM
    The fire service needs a "culture of extinguishment not safety" Ray McCormack FDNY
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    When you are a Police Officer, (generic you, not any forum member, ha ha !) you can gamble with your safety, I however, will not gamble with My safety, naked people or otherwise.....
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but something just ain't Kosher about this particular LEO shooting to me. I do appreciate and respect y'alls input.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    Not just an opinion, My personal policy and will be this next time I wear a badge as a sworn Ossifer of the law. :jester:
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 21,096 Senior Member
    Big Chief wrote: »
    Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but something just ain't Kosher about this particular LEO shooting to me. I do appreciate and respect y'alls input.
    Bigchief, you'd already tried and convicted the cop before you started this thread. True, he MIGHT be guilty of a "bad" shoot, but he might not be. I don't know, and the truth of the matter is NEITHER DO YOU. But as I said, you've already got the cop tried, convicted and awaiting sentencing
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    knitepoet wrote: »
    Bigchief, you'd already tried and convicted the cop before you started this thread. True, he MIGHT be guilty of a "bad" shoot, but he might not be. I don't know, and the truth of the matter is NEITHER DO YOU. But as I said, you've already got the cop tried, convicted and awaiting sentencing

    Seems to me the Cop served the death penalty up front to the unarmed kid.................................but I don't know enough about it right now except what was on the news. Hopefully it will all come out in the wash (investigation). For now I haven't changed my opinion of this incident. I never said he was guilty of anything and said he may very well be exonerated or charged with manslaughter (I dunno) and a civil suit will surely follow.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • JeeperJeeper Senior Member Posts: 2,954 Senior Member
    BC, every cop's first priority is to go home at the end of their shift to their own family and take care of them, just like every other citizen. When you face an opponent with weapon drawn, and they continue to advance in a threatening manner, you have to presume that in their mind at least, they are just as deadly as you are. Every year, many officers who choose to attempt to use "less lethal" alternatives fail to observe the first rule of law enforcement. This was a sad incident, but I cannot fault the officer based on the limited information we have been presented with in this case.

    Luis
    Wielding the Hammer of Thor first requires you to lift and carry the Hammer of Thor. - Bigslug
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    Well, this may change the ballgame, if the cop was carrying non-lethal weapons. We will all have to wait and see what what the investigation reveals.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/ala-campus-police-officer-who-fatally-shot-naked-student-was-carrying-baton-spray/2012/10/12/341231b8-14d2-11e2-9a39-1f5a7f6fe945_story.html


    "Ala. campus police officer who fatally shot naked student was carrying baton, spray.

    A University of South Alabama campus police officer who fatally shot a naked student was carrying pepper spray and a baton at the time, the school said Friday."
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,495 Senior Member
    But did he have time to use them? Police aren't supposed to use less-than-lethal options when they're solo, also. Those options are only to be used with gun-toting backup in case they fail per most department policies.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    .......... Police aren't supposed to use less-than-lethal options when they're solo, also. Those options are only to be used with gun-toting backup in case they fail per most department policies.

    Really? So a cop is authorized to use lethal force anytime they are alone, no matter the situation? Wow, that 's news to me, indeed.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,495 Senior Member
    No. But in a solo situation, they are closer to lethal force situations than solo.






    But why tell you, you've already decided the guy's wrong and the kid was in the clear.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    No. But in a solo situation, they are closer to lethal force situations than solo.

    But why tell you, you've already decided the guy's wrong and the kid was in the clear.



    No, I haven't decided anything yet, except it don't smell right to me. Jury is still out, facts aren't all in yet either, I've voiced my opinion. Time will tell, I could very well be wrong here as you and the rest of the 99% who have decided it was a justified shooting.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,495 Senior Member
    Where did I say or indicate it was justified? I've just been pointing out that the kid wasn't as harmless as you seem to think, and that by policy less-than-lethal options are generally only used with backup in case they fail.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    Where did I say or indicate it was justified? I've just been pointing out that the kid wasn't as harmless as you seem to think, and that by policy less-than-lethal options are generally only used with backup in case they fail.

    That's sure the impression I get from y'all taking sides with what the cop did from the responses I read.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • FisheadgibFisheadgib Senior Member Posts: 5,797 Senior Member
    Big Chief wrote: »
    No, I haven't decided anything yet, except it don't smell right to me. Jury is still out, facts aren't all in yet either, I've voiced my opinion. Time will tell, I could very well be wrong here as you and the rest of the 99% who have decided it was a justified shooting.


    I don't think anyone has totally commited to this being a justifyable shooting as much as most of us are giving the officer the benefit of the doubt being that he wasn't the one running around naked tripping on acid and assaulting people.
    snake284 wrote: »
    For my point of view, cpj is a lot like me
    .
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 21,096 Senior Member
    Fisheadgib wrote: »
    I don't think anyone has totally commited to this being a justifyable shooting as much as most of us are giving the officer the benefit of the doubt being that he wasn't the one running around naked tripping on acid and assaulting people.
    :win::agree::applause:

    edited to add:
    personally, the closest you'll find to me saying it was justified is where I said I'm currently 51% vs 49% that it WAS a "good" shoot and I admitted then that that could change quickly based on newer information coming out (see post #91)
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    OK, so we agree to disagree...............:jester:
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    I can't judge this individual case without the complete investigative details of this particular case, but based on (being familiar with) past review board cases, I conclude that it is indeed possible that the Officer in question acted within the guidelines of his departments regulations / policies regarding the use of lethal force in the performance of his duties.....
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • ghostsniper1ghostsniper1 Banned Posts: 2,645 Senior Member
    DoctorWho wrote: »
    I can't judge this individual case without the complete investigative details of this particular case, but based on (being familiar with) past review board cases, I conclude that it is indeed possible that the Officer in question acted within the guidelines of his departments regulations / policies regarding the use of lethal force in the performance of his duties.....
    For Christs sake, I agree with big chief. Only a pansy wouldn't be able to deal with a naked, unarmed college kid. He could have easily kicked him in the twins and BAM, threat eliminated. Stop thinking that guns are the only answer. Even you old farts still produce adrenaline which proves to do amazing things in stressful situations.
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    One question, have you ever held the title of Police officer ? had the training etc ?? what are your qualifications etc ?

    Once you let a suspect within 15 feet of your person, even if they are unarmed, and even naked and of slight build, even a novice with little strength and no martial arts training can kill you with a lucky strike.

    Edited to add:

    Please try and understand, when a Police Officer faces an obviously emotionally disturbed person, an EDP, forget all the dojo training unarmed combat etc, your worst bet is to try duking it out in a so called fair fight, a LEO should order the suspect to halt and if they do not comply, lethal force may be called for, EDPs can summon many times the usual strength of a normal person, so hand to hand combat can be a fatal mistake.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,798 Senior Member
    I don't have to pronounce judgement in this case, based on the skimpy information available, so I consider myself lucky. I will file it in the same 'pending' file with the George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin case and refuse all opportunities to commit prematurely. I do, however, hope that all the folks who live in this jurisdiction will keep the pressure on for a just resolution of the case. It isn't one of those that should just fade away. The people who live there need to know what they can expect from law enforcement professionals, whether everybody agrees with it, or not.
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    A long time ago there was a program where local police departments would set up a television monitor and a vcr with various shoot don't shoot scenarios, and they would equip a non police officer with a prop gun and holster and with only a cursory explanation, let them decide what to do, this public relations event was designed to illustrate the difficulties of decisions (shoot or don't shoot) faced by police officers to the non police officer.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • FisheadgibFisheadgib Senior Member Posts: 5,797 Senior Member
    For Christs sake, I agree with big chief. Only a pansy wouldn't be able to deal with a naked, unarmed college kid. He could have easily kicked him in the twins and BAM, threat eliminated. Stop thinking that guns are the only answer. Even you old farts still produce adrenaline which proves to do amazing things in stressful situations.


    This is the second time that I've noticed you refering to the members of this forum that are older than you (which represent the greater majority of people on this forum) as "old farts". These "old farts" welcomed you at Jerry's and made you and your wife feel welcome, these "old farts" have offered sincere advise with your plethora of personal problems, these "old farts" have offered firearm advise to you, these "old farts" have offered up advise on starting a business, and I'm confident that many of these "old farts" could skid you around the pasture at Jerry's weather they were clothed or not. You make a lot of eroneous assumptions and your use of the term "old fart" is pretty disrespectful.
    snake284 wrote: »
    For my point of view, cpj is a lot like me
    .
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    :that::agree:
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • ghostsniper1ghostsniper1 Banned Posts: 2,645 Senior Member
    Fisheadgib wrote: »
    This is the second time that I've noticed you refering to the members of this forum that are older than you (which represent the greater majority of people on this forum) as "old farts". These "old farts" welcomed you at Jerry's and made you and your wife feel welcome, these "old farts" have offered sincere advise with your plethora of personal problems, these "old farts" have offered firearm advise to you, these "old farts" have offered up advise on starting a business, and I'm confident that many of these "old farts" could skid you around the pasture at Jerry's weather they were clothed or not. You make a lot of eroneous assumptions and your use of the term "old fart" is pretty disrespectful.
    Was meant in a joking fashion, but okay I'm done.
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    Was meant in a joking fashion, but okay I'm done.


    It just seems you do not understand many basic concepts, like the power of the bare knuckle beat down to kill maim and cripple even a young able bodied person, I have seen the results laying on morgue tables, so excuse Me if naked people do not get special dispensation from Me...

    Mayhap disrespect is too strong a word, perhaps dismissive is the appropriate term.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
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