Home Main Category Personal Defense

Carry no round in the chamber, like army.

dbrowndbrown MemberPosts: 45 Member
I read the Walt Raunch article in G&A handguns. How it only takes an extra second to champer a round, work the slide. With practice he could get it down to about 1/2 second. Then I read an add in a different gun rag. It showed 4 pics, 1 old drunk, 2 a dolled up girl, 3 a young guy in a hoodie, and 4 a stocking capped face masked guy aiming a gun. The ad said : 1.4 seconds to decide, a life time to live with the choice.
I personally don't see the point of not going with a chambered round. whether you go Double or single action with an auto or something else. I don't want the added presure of having to chamber a round. Any time the adreniline dumps and the shakes start. The last thing I want to do is worry about gross motor skills.
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Replies

  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,988 Senior Member
    A gun with an empty chamber is an expensive club.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • 5280 shooter II5280 shooter II Senior Member Posts: 3,923 Senior Member
    Poppycock.....when you have to pull out a weapon, you're in immediate danger.....scenario....BG is on top of you and you have hands up trying to hold him back, choke, whatever. Is there any time to chamber a round then? Scenario.....you and wife are approached....instinct is to place yourself in front of her and hold off-arm back in protective gesture.....where's your second hand now? It goes on and on......you carry ready to fire.
    God show's mercy on drunks and dumb animals.........two outa three ain't a bad score!
  • horselipshorselips Senior Member Posts: 3,628 Senior Member
    The military has its rules and preferences for reasons that suit its circumstances. Soldiers know when they are going into combat and they usualy have plenty of time to load their guns. Civilians are often in circumstances where they are taken by surprise, and a second or so of time is a luxury rarely afforded.
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 21,093 Senior Member
    Zee wrote: »
    A gun with an empty chamber is an expensive club.
    :agree: :that:
    and when talking about handguns, it's not even a very good club

    edited to add: Anyone care to go unloaded 1911 vs. PR-24? I get the PR-24 though :tooth:
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 16,920 Senior Member
    I know a couple of people who carry unloaded (empty chamber) handguns..all of them are folks who are not truly proficient or comfortable with their firearms...
    They have "thought out" the scenario in which they will need their handgun and seriously believe they will have time to un-holster their firearm and chamber a round. We'll see how that works for them when a car jacker smashes out their window at a stop light
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • sarg1csarg1c Senior Member Posts: 1,707 Senior Member
    If an "unfriendly " jumps out swinging a club and breaks your off-arm, you with an single action auto with empty chamber, who's going to load the first round in your auto. Don't even think of using your teeth. It don't work. if you are going to carry, carry ready....
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 8,258 Senior Member
    If your level of training is such that you aren't comfortable carrying a modern semi auto with a round chambered, you either need to rethink your training or rethink the carrying of a firearm. The Army typically runs chamber empty in many circumstances because that level of training varies greatly with a soldier's specific assignment - that, plus the fact that they usually try to fight with helicopters, artillery, machineguns, and rifles.

    The Army understands that a handgun is a crappy tool to fight with. If that's your only option, why handicap it further by leaving it unloaded and running around untrained?
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 24,713 Senior Member
    What was left out of the OP, was that the author did not recommend unchambered carry;
    he was just discussing the facts and merits of such carry. His bottom line was he would carry
    a rnd chambered.

    Part of his article was that it is a way to get started, whether right for you and me or not.
    Some people have to learn to crawl before they learn to run and would need to learn to run in stages.

    It is the same old story just like saying a .22lr is better than a loud scream or something
    like that.

    Then there is that orginazation in ILL that proposes carrying a unloaded pistol in a fannypac
    because they say it is legal because it is an unloaded gun in a approved case.
    Their premis is that it takes 6 sec to deploy a loaded pistol that way, and it is
    better to have a gun in 6 sec than nothing at all.
    Shut up-----KAREN; OK Cynthia
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    My friend who chose an ancient Colt auto in .32 ACP as his carry gun said it this way- - - - -"Anything beats a scream". I think he also carried Condition 3, but at least he didn't have to run for his car in order to defend himself. His buddy who worked at the same company carried a High Standard Derringer in .22 Mag with four loose rounds in a pocket for reloads. His strategy was a little different. "Maybe this can get me to my car, and I've got a short-barreled 12 gauge double loaded with 00 buck in the trunk". Both of them had a self-defense plan they were comfortable with. Was it as effective as carrying a double-stack wonder-nine with a couple of spare magazines? Maybe not, but it made them feel more secure. Good for them!
    Jerry
  • BakermanBakerman Member Posts: 382 Member
    I don't remember where, I think it was Mass Ayoub, but at one time it was an accepted rule that a bad guy with a knife can cover 21 feet and cut you before you can unholster your gun and bring it into play. Not sure I want to add time to the unholstering cycle.
    Bakerman formerly known as Bakerman
  • 5280 shooter II5280 shooter II Senior Member Posts: 3,923 Senior Member
    Massad Ayoob IIRC.....minimum threat-line distance 21 feet-7 yrds, covered within 3 seconds. Some accosting encounters happen at MUCH less distance. It amazes me that people practice aimed fire at 5 yrds.....that should be snap-shooting distance....not Elmer Keith hip-firing, but controlled center combat stance from holster to chest and extend like was demonstrated by the man formally known as BPSniper. However, situation dictates, and a lot of ranges don't allow draw and fire unless you're in a class or range member.
    God show's mercy on drunks and dumb animals.........two outa three ain't a bad score!
  • Mr.FMr.F Member Posts: 89 Member
    sarg1c wrote: »
    who's going to load the first round in your auto. Don't even think of using your teeth. It don't work.
    I'd like to see someone try it !
    Jermanator : You might talk about Tauruses around your wife, but that just doesn't fly in my house.
  • 41magnut41magnut Senior Member Posts: 1,203 Senior Member
    Zee wrote: »
    A gun with an empty chamber is an expensive club.

    agreed!
    "The .30-06 is never a mistake." Townsend Whelen :iwo:
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    I remember how hard it was to convince some people that a S&W M-10 did not have to be carried with an empty chamber under the hammer, these people were convinced that if the revolver fell, (lets say on its hammer) it could discharge.

    The best way for people not so proficient or confident in skill, is a modern DA revolver, perhaps a .44 special.

    I do not like the idea of an empty chamber, you find yourself holding a gun with an empty chamber on a bad guy, you are in a fix, how do you chamber a round without giving yourself away ???
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • mkk41mkk41 Banned Posts: 1,932 Senior Member
    I seem to recall the Navy-way to carry the 1911A1 on watch or gate guard was empty and 2 mags in the belt pouch with 5rds in each mag! If on 'alert' ya got a third mag to keep in the pistol , but you dared not to chamber a round unless in genuine danger , or ordered to do by an officer.
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,557 Senior Member
    "The unloaded firearm serves only to get you killed."
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • mythaeusmythaeus Senior Member Posts: 831 Senior Member
    I carried my gun without a chambered round for exactly 1 day and realized that it was pointless. My wife started out with the round in the chamber right away. Needless to say, we don't believe in carrying an unloaded gun.

    I'm sure some of you knew/saw this or something similar...1-handed "tactical" reloading. I can see rare occasions when it may be necessary and didn't know what to do until I watched a similar video:

    Al
    "In a controversy, the instant we feel anger we have already ceased striving for the truth and have begun striving for ourselves." - Siddhartha Gautama
  • SlanteyedshootistSlanteyedshootist Senior Member Posts: 3,947 Senior Member
    I read the article and my first impression was, "Ahhh, couldn't think of anything interesting to write this month eh?"
    The answer to 1984 is 1776
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    I believe if you are in any way incapacitated, go for your backup weapon........ that is the best solution.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,493 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    One handed pistol reloads are VERY doable and a valuable skill that you learn in case you HAVE TO do it because you are incapacitated in some way that precludes a two handed reload. But once again, just because you can does not mean you should. As a main way to caryy/deply a gun it is a handicap anyway you look at it.

    One of the main reasons I went with the 10-8 rear sight on my Springfield Loaded 1911...
    BatonRougeMay2010164.jpg

    is that it allows one-handed slide manipulation for reloads and clearing the firearm.
    BatonRougeMay2010165.jpg
    Overkill is underrated.
  • JayJay Senior Member Posts: 3,859 Senior Member
    DoctorWho wrote: »
    I believe if you are in any way incapacitated, go for your backup weapon........ that is the best solution.

    That is a great plan, but not everyone has that option. ETA - and just being "incapacitated" is not the go to backup gun key. I figure you weren't implying that, but that's the way I read it. Incapacitated and the gun is dry or malfunctioned is the key and backup gun is great if available. Otherwise, keep fighting. I think in some cases, if a backup gun is there, it can make sense to go to it rather than clear a malfunction without being injured. Again, keep fighting.

    Being able to reload and clear malfunctions with one hand only, right and left, is a great set of skills to have. To practice it safely can be an issue with some, so I wouldn't do it without good instruction. Especially not with live ammo.

    Carrying a gun with an empty chamber is a great way to practice clearing a fail-to-fire malfunction in high stress situations as well.....
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    Jay wrote: »
    That is a great plan, but not everyone has that option.

    Being able to reload and clear malfunctions with one hand only, right and left, is a great set of skills to have. To practice it safely can be an issue with some, so I wouldn't do it without good instruction. Especially not with live ammo.

    Carrying a gun with an empty chamber is a great way to practice clearing a fail-to-fire malfunction in high stress situations as well.....

    I wish I could answer that without sounding like a colossal bustard bird.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • snake284-1snake284-1 Senior Member Posts: 2,500 Senior Member
    I would say the average garrison soldier may adhere to these silly rules, but I bet they are cocked and locked in the field.
    I'm Just a Radical Right Wing Nutt Job, Trying to Help Save My Country!
  • JayJay Senior Member Posts: 3,859 Senior Member
    DoctorWho wrote: »
    I wish I could answer that without sounding like a colossal bustard bird.

    Go for it. Or PM if you feel you must.

    I see by your quote I was editing while you posted.

    I was being sarcastic, BTW
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    It is only if I had adhered to that idea, I would likely be dead today.

    I would rather be friends with everyone here in any case rather than be a Colossal plick.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • JayJay Senior Member Posts: 3,859 Senior Member
    DoctorWho wrote: »
    It is only if I had adhered to that idea, I would likely be dead today.

    I would rather be friends with everyone here in any case rather than be a Colossal plick.

    OK. I'm not getting it, but I'm not all that bright. If I say something that bothers you, I'm good with being called on it. My post count is low, so my posts tend to be pretty much what I'm about, or I wouldn't bother. As long as it's not taken the wrong way, I'm good either way.
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    The thing is this, taking time out to rack a slide greatly increases the odds of getting greased in a gun fight, things got pretty wild really fast the first time I wore a badge and it was C&L all of the time.... Again, I advocate a quality DA revolver for anyone else that eschews C&L carry.

    Or a Glock of some type or other DA only autoloader.....


    Unless you are a champion gun fighter like Bill Jordon, I do not advocate empty chamber carry.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • uscitizen1970uscitizen1970 New Member Posts: 3 New Member
    I saw on youtube citizens in Kaliforniastan open carrying ar15s, approached by police to check it was unloaded. Recommend viewing this insanity on youtube. Citizens believing they are 'exercising' their rights. That is useless exercise in my book, and a useless right! To carry a rifle unloaded in plain sight, say what?
  • mythaeusmythaeus Senior Member Posts: 831 Senior Member
    I saw on youtube citizens in Kaliforniastan open carrying ar15s, approached by police to check it was unloaded. Recommend viewing this insanity on youtube. Citizens believing they are 'exercising' their rights. That is useless exercise in my book, and a useless right! To carry a rifle unloaded in plain sight, say what?

    You need to understand the issue much more deeply than cursory observation before chastising your fellow gun owners.

    CA has the toughest gun laws in the book, including essentially impossible to obtain a carry permit. The only way you could carry, until recently, was to open carry an unloaded handgun with mag separated. Recent legislation banned open carry of handguns, even unloaded. CA gun owners are extremely frustrated that their rights continued to be abridged to no end. The ONLY way to carry anything right now is to open carry a long gun. While this is not exactly practical, it's both a form of protest and the best chance of protecting yourself with a gun in that state. Personally, I fully support people exercising their rights to the fullest that they can, especially under such absurd legal conditions. Sadly, my guess is that open carrying of long guns will soon be banned.

    Al
    "In a controversy, the instant we feel anger we have already ceased striving for the truth and have begun striving for ourselves." - Siddhartha Gautama
  • JayJay Senior Member Posts: 3,859 Senior Member
    DoctorWho wrote: »
    The thing is this, taking time out to rack a slide greatly increases the odds of getting greased in a gun fight, things got pretty wild really fast the first time I wore a badge and it was C&L all of the time.... Again, I advocate a quality DA revolver for anyone else that eschews C&L carry.

    Or a Glock of some type or other DA only autoloader.....


    Unless you are a champion gun fighter like Bill Jordon, I do not advocate empty chamber carry.

    Oh, cool. So we're on the same page. 'Cause I agree with everything you just said. That part that you put in bold when you quoted me, I was being very sarcastic. Carrying a gun without one in the chamber is like giving an opponent a head start in a drag race when you are probably already behind to begin with....
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