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Two off-duty Florida officers fatally shoot armed, naked woman

Big ChiefBig Chief Senior MemberPosts: 32,995 Senior Member
Dang, different circumstances (she was armed with something) , but what's up with these naked confrontations lately?

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/10/21/two-off-duty-florida-officers-fatally-shoot-armed-naked-woman/

"Two off-duty Florida law-enforcement officers fatally shot an armed, naked woman who confronted them at a party Saturday, authorities said.

The shooting occurred at about 1:15 p.m. Saturday in Hernando County, north of Tampa. The county sheriff's office said in a news release that the men were approached by an "armed, naked and irrational female." The news release does not identify the weapon, but it says "one or both of the law enforcement officers fired their weapons, striking the female." She died at the scene.

"She was just acting irrational," Hernando County Sheriff Al Neinhuis told MyFoxTampaBay. "It was obvious being naked she was not in her right mind."

Neinhuis said someone at the party called 911 to report her, but she returned to the gathering before police could arrive.

"She came back with a weapon and confronted both the Tampa police officer and my sheriff's office detective," Neinhuis told MyFoxTampaBay. "She came with a weapon and I would surmise that they felt their life was in danger."

Both officers have been placed on administrative leave as the Florida Department of Law Enforcement investigates the shooting in the Spring Hill community.

Authorities have identified the officers as Hernando County sheriff's Detective Rocky Allen Howard, 31, and Tampa police officer William Mechler, 26, who have served six and four years, respectively. Tampa police say Mechler was "off duty and acting in the capacity of a private citizen."

Lt. Cinda Moore, a spokeswoman for the Hernando sheriff's office, said in an email late Saturday that she could not immediately identify the woman or disclose the weapon she was carrying. She said she also could not comment on what the woman specifically said or did or whether she was told to drop the weapon, explaining that the FDLE is leading the investigation.

The Hernando County sheriff's office does permit the carrying of service weapons when off-duty, she said.

The Tampa-area shooting comes two weeks after a naked, unarmed University of South Alabama freshman was fatally shot by a campus police officer after going to the police station there and pounding on the glass. The shooting has led to protests by students.

Police said 18-year-old Gil Collar had taken LSD and acted aggressively when an officer came outside carrying a gun. The officer repeatedly backed away from the student before firing. An attorney for the student's family says Collar never touched the officer and the fatal shooting never should have happened. Authorities have said a grand jury will review that shooting to determine whether charges should be filed."

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/10/21/two-off-duty-florida-officers-fatally-shoot-armed-naked-woman/#ixzz29w2exoXN
It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!

Replies

  • shushshush Senior Member Posts: 6,259 Senior Member
    Big Chief wrote: »
    Dang,......... but what's up with these naked confrontations lately?

    "Don't look, Ethel!"
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 5,486 Senior Member
    Big Chief wrote: »
    Dang, different circumstances (she was armed with something) , but what's up with these naked confrontations lately?


    I'd bet a dollar that there are many naked confrontations between police and citizens, esp college students. The difference is they usually end up arrested and thrown in the drunk tank.

    This story bothers me more than the college student shooting. This was two cops, off-duty, and the woman had a "weapon" but they will not disclose what it was.

    Lots of unanswered questions at this point.
    When our governing officials dismiss due process as mere semantics, when they exercise powers they don’t have and ignore duties they actually bear, and when we let them get away with it, we have ceased to be our own rulers.

    Adam J. McCleod


  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,128 Senior Member
    Why won't they disclose the weapon? What, was she armed with a "marital aid"?
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 8,262 Senior Member
    I believe that it's PCP that causes the body temperature to rise - or at least creates the perception in the user that they are overheating, which leads to a lot of folks on that particular chemical taking their clothes off. They then tend to run around acting irrationally, and since the drug takes away the sensation of pain, they can appear to be super-strong (since exertion no longer hurts). LSD is like Forrest Gump's box of chocolates - you never know what you're going to get.

    Hard tellin', but this could have been the officer's perceptions in both this and the Alabama shooting. Why other means of dealing with the threats were not deployed will be a matter for the investigations. Fact is though, truly crazy people are scary in a way that can't be applied to a violent person otherwise in control of their faculties. Unpredictable actions/reactions coupled with inability to reason could certainly narrow an officer's options. Just because they're naked and unarmed doesn't make them a newborn kitten.
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • FL180FL180 Member Posts: 58 Member
    Tampa police say Mechler was "off duty and acting in the capacity of a private citizen."




    Honest question...

    Are police officers ever really off duty? Does it vary from department to department?

    I just find it odd that the Tampa Police Dept would add that officer Mechler was off duty and acting as a private citizen. I get the impression from this article that the department is trying to distance itself from his actions. Or maybe that was just the intent of the author of this piece.
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    Maybe he didn't identify himself as a LEO before firing? Sounds like somebody at the cop shop is engaging in a little pre-emptive CYA in this situation. I'm sure there are probably a few legal beagles circling the blood in the water on this one.
    Jerry
  • CasperFLSTCzCasperFLSTCz New Member Posts: 2 New Member
    FL180 wrote: »
    Tampa police say Mechler was "off duty and acting in the capacity of a private citizen."




    Honest question...

    Are police officers ever really off duty? Does it vary from department to department?

    I just find it odd that the Tampa Police Dept would add that officer Mechler was off duty and acting as a private citizen. I get the impression from this article that the department is trying to distance itself from his actions. Or maybe that was just the intent of the author of this piece.

    From what I read, this took place in Hernando county. Tampa is in Hillsborough. Either way he was out of his jurisdiction and the person is providing top cover for the department and stating this was not a departmental action.

    At least that is the way it seems to me.
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,495 Senior Member
    From what I read, this took place in Hernando county. Tampa is in Hillsborough. Either way he was out of his jurisdiction and the person is providing top cover for the department and stating this was not a departmental action.

    At least that is the way it seems to me.
    He could have been visiting family or friends in the next county over. In that regard, he would be a private citizen, unable to arrest someone.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • FL180FL180 Member Posts: 58 Member
    He could have been visiting family or friends in the next county over. In that regard, he would be a private citizen, unable to arrest someone.

    Makes sense... You must be in your jurisdiction to use your law enforcement authority. Hypothetically, if this was his jurisdiction, would he be considered "on duty" if it was his day off or his shift had already ended or not yet begun? In other words would his department support him as far as legal support? It sounds like this officer might be footing the bill for his own legal defense if it gets to that point in this shooting.
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    CaliFFL wrote: »
    I'd bet a dollar that there are many naked confrontations between police and citizens, esp college students. The difference is they usually end up arrested and thrown in the drunk tank.

    This story bothers me more than the college student shooting. This was two cops, off-duty, and the woman had a "weapon" but they will not disclose what it was.

    Lots of unanswered questions at this point.

    Heck, she probably had Two Weapons................:jester:

    If it were a gun, I'm sure they would have said so up front??????

    I guess the fact it was a female bothers me, even though they can kill you dead like a man. And it was two cops involved. Alcohol, drugs involved?
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    Here is all I could find on it.

    http://www.baynews9.com/content/news/baynews9/news/article.html/content/news/articles/bn9/2012/10/21/authorities_give_few.html



    "SPRING HILL --

    Details remain sketchy today after a naked woman was shot to death by at least one law enforcement officer at a private party Saturday.

    The shooting occurred about 1 p.m. at 9070 Orchard Way in rural Hernando County.

    According to the Hernando County Sheriff's Office, Hernando detective Rocky Howard, 31, and Tampa police officer William Mechler, 26, were off-duty and attending the gathering when the woman showed up and approached them, acting irrationally.

    The woman left and returned a short time later with a weapon, officials said. Authorities have not described the weapon or said how the woman presented it, and they have not released the woman's name or age.

    Something happened, though, and one or both men opened fire. The woman died at the scene.

    "I can tell you that she was not part of the gathering, nor was she invited to the gathering," Sheriff Al Nienhaus said. "So it wasn't like she was invited to the group. She actually came up uninvited."

    Howard, who lives near the Orchard Parkway property, has worked for the Hernando County Sheriff's Office for six years. Mechler has four years of law enforcement experience.

    Both have been placed on administrative leave by their respective agencies pending an investigation by the Florida Department of Law Enforcement.

    Neighbor Steve Hulgin said the area is not known for trouble.

    "It's a very, very quiet street," he said. "It's extremely quiet, and that's why we like it. We all have 10-acre parcels here and it's just a nice quiet street. It's just strange"
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • horselipshorselips Senior Member Posts: 3,628 Senior Member
    Geee, I haven't been to a party featuring irrational, naked 18 year old girls since college. How do I get an invite?
  • BakermanBakerman Member Posts: 382 Member
    .......1pm........

    That stuff usually happens in darkness not in the early afternoon.
    Bakerman formerly known as Bakerman
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 16,928 Senior Member
    FL180 wrote: »
    Makes sense... You must be in your jurisdiction to use your law enforcement authority.
    Not so everywhere...mutual aid agreements, etc have an impact as will...why else would tribal police be making traffic stops on an interstate highway that's nowhere near their reservation?
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • JayJay Senior Member Posts: 3,862 Senior Member
    I can't speak for every state, but around here, you're a peace officer in your state. If you are a state certified officer, you are an officer 24/7 state wide. Department policy outlines what you do or don't do, but cops carry off duty and can act in the capacity of a peace officer at any time within the state if needed.
  • CasperFLSTCzCasperFLSTCz New Member Posts: 2 New Member
    Jay wrote: »
    I can't speak for every state, but around here, you're a peace officer in your state. If you are a state certified officer, you are an officer 24/7 state wide. Department policy outlines what you do or don't do, but cops carry off duty and can act in the capacity of a peace officer at any time within the state if needed.

    I agree, but, the question was posed as to why he was "acting as a private citizen." based on the follow up article it seems pretty clear that he was off duty on his own time and acted as a "peace officer," but was not on departmental business. So again no "jurisdiction" to be performing law enforcement in a neighboring county. I still read it as the department distancing itself from the individual officer's actions.
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    Hmmmmm- - - - - -anybody want to speculate on the possibility that "alcohol was involved" ( or maybe drugs), either with the shooter(s), the shoot-ee or everyone concerned?
    Jerry
  • jbp-ohiojbp-ohio Senior Member Posts: 10,167 Senior Member
    Teach wrote: »
    Hmmmmm- - - - - -anybody want to speculate on the possibility that "alcohol was involved" ( or maybe drugs), either with the shooter(s), the shoot-ee or everyone concerned?
    Jerry

    I think Bigslug nailed that on the shootee. PCP and I think sometimes LSD make the brain think you are getting hot. Then the clothes start coming off...
    "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson
  • FisheadgibFisheadgib Senior Member Posts: 5,797 Senior Member
    I can see the local agencies not wanting to let too much info out yet as like many of the other high profile shooting cases that went viral on the internet and had half the country armchair quarterbacking what may have transpired. I'm pretty curious about what happened here and I hunted around the internet to find out as much as I could and found several articles that added a couple of additional fragments of info. I got that it was a "family gathering" and this woman showed up naked and acting irrational. They never mentioned if anyone knew her or if she was a total stranger. The two officers asked her to leave or they would call the police and she complied and left. The sheriffs deputy called it in to his desk to be safe. The woman returned with a weapon and the officers felt she was dangerous enough to require perforation. With two officers and a crowd of witnesses, I doubt that the officers just lacadaisically decided to shoot her. They must have considered whatever she was doing as a real threat.
    snake284 wrote: »
    For my point of view, cpj is a lot like me
    .
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,398 Senior Member
    Drugs: LSD makes people do strange stuff. Bad batches of LSD back in the 60s and 70s caused quite a few strange suicides. PCP makes people really crazy, and crazy strong and seemingly impervious to pain. But some of the designer drugs also make the metabolism race so fast that people on some of it sweat profusely. Smoking Jimsonweed has that same effect of causing profuse sweating, and smoking too much of it can lead to cardiac arrest. People are amazing sometimes with what they will put in their bloodstream to get high. Crystal meth can really wind someone up with paranoia and delusional behavior if they have been taking enough of it to not have slept in three or four days; they can be absolutely bat scat crazy and dangerous. And then there is that 'bath salts' that people were smoking; that stuff is responsible for some aberrant behavior. There's a whole list of that stuff that makes people crazy.

    Way I see it, someone puts that stuff in their system willingly, they own the consequences. Like what already has been said, with a crowd around and a crazy armed person present, may have been the only option to take her out. Sad, but sometimes that's the way it falls.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,557 Senior Member
    "K2" and "Bath Salts" can have similar violently hallucenogenic effect. They are very common in Florida and encountering people high on these chemicals is becoming frighteningly frequent, even in small towns/communities. If there is a smoke shop, they can get K2 and Bath Salts.
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • jbp-ohiojbp-ohio Senior Member Posts: 10,167 Senior Member
    JasonMPD wrote: »
    "K2" and "Bath Salts" can have similar violently hallucenogenic effect. They are very common in Florida and encountering people high on these chemicals is becoming frighteningly frequent, even in small towns/communities. If there is a smoke shop, they can get K2 and Bath Salts.

    Bath salts was what the 'Zombie Face Eater' had in him wasnt it,?
    "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,495 Senior Member
    jbp-ohio wrote: »
    Bath salts was what the 'Zombie Face Eater' had in him wasnt it,?
    Actually, a blood test came back negative for that, but positive for marijuana.

    Insert munchies joke here...
    Overkill is underrated.
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    Alabama is cracking down on bath salts vendors big time. We get the newscasts from the local Huntsville TV stations, and they're closing down convenience stores by the handful there for selling it. They gave them 30 days to remove the stuff from the shelves voluntarily, then dropped the hammer on 'em!
    Jerry
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,557 Senior Member
    Actually, a blood test came back negative for that, but positive for marijuana.

    Insert munchies joke here...

    I believe the toxicology reported he had none in his system. He just liked face.
    Teach wrote: »
    Alabama is cracking down on bath salts vendors big time. We get the newscasts from the local Huntsville TV stations, and they're closing down convenience stores by the handful there for selling it. They gave them 30 days to remove the stuff from the shelves voluntarily, then dropped the hammer on 'em!
    Jerry

    Good for them. Florida is slowly getting there. Rather than banning its sale in general, they keep banning the specific chemical compounds...they just make something new and it doesn't fit the criteria for the ban.
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 5,486 Senior Member
    Teach wrote: »
    Alabama is cracking down on bath salts vendors big time. We get the newscasts from the local Huntsville TV stations, and they're closing down convenience stores by the handful there for selling it. They gave them 30 days to remove the stuff from the shelves voluntarily, then dropped the hammer on 'em!
    Jerry

    Alabama is closing stores without legislative authority?
    When our governing officials dismiss due process as mere semantics, when they exercise powers they don’t have and ignore duties they actually bear, and when we let them get away with it, we have ceased to be our own rulers.

    Adam J. McCleod


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