entry level AR's

sakodude

Started this on the temp forum but it was gone before I had a chance to check it. Anyway, my brother and I have been feeling the tug of the dark side and have decided that an AR must be aquired. I have been looking at the S&W MP-15 sport. Around here it retails for around $650.00 or so. It seems to have all the needed bits and pieces with the exception of the dust cover and forward assist. Any opinions or other suggestions at this price point?
Just to be clear,I want to purchase a rifle not build one so no parts or kit suggestions please.
Educate me please.

Thanks,

Sako

TSchub

Not a bad rifle from what I know about it. Around here you can get some DPMS models for around that amount, so maybe check them out too.

ericb

I think they are a decent entry level AR that would make a good truck gun but for a little more $$ you can get a lot more gun. I don't like the fact that they come with an unlined 1:8 twist barrel. You can get an entry level Spikes for $ 859.

http://www.spikestactical.com/new/z/st15-midlength-le-carbine-p-443.html

wddodge

Another negative about the S&W is that it's not mil-spec. If you ever want to start playing with it, most of the aftermarket parts are not going to fit.

Denny

Kevin M Thomas

Sheriff, where you seeing DPMS for that? I am not seeing them for less then 850.
more pushing 1k.

NCFUBAR

You aren't going into battle so you don't need a top tier Big Buck AR but think about later down the road when you're thinking about tweaking it. I have the basics from Spikes for my kid's AR and they are excellent quality and most people have nothing but praise for Spike's products except they are backlogged most of the time, guess quality drives their high demand. For the bucks on a complete AR I'd go Spikes like some above have said.

SirGeorgeKillian

I picked up a DPMS "Sportical" which is a stripped down sporter model. No forward assist or dust cover, it is also a flat top with a rail on the gas block. I picked it up for 799 or so during the peak of the Obama panic. I sunk a few hundred into it (including a .22 conversion which hands down is the best money you will ever spend) and have a very capable plinker. I think my total investment is 1200 including the conversion and buis.

mythaeus

wddodge wrote: »

Another negative about the S&W is that it's not mil-spec. If you ever want to start playing with it, most of the aftermarket parts are not going to fit.

Denny

Having owned a S&W M&P 15T, this is not a correct statement even though mine didn't work with PMags until after it was sent back to the shop. I had no problem putting after-market parts on it and S&W CS swore up and down that their ARs are mil-spec. I can't imagine a reputable company would kill their chance at the biggest rifle market by not making them mil-spec.

As for the Sport version, it's very much like the DPMS Sportical. I don't see the practicality of the bolt assist and the dust cover, especially for civilian/fun use. I don't have practical field use of ARs so I can't say how important these parts are. I just find myself having never, ever used these parts. What more is that you get the full backing of S&W customer service, which I've always found to be very good.

Al

SirGeorgeKillian

Yes and no. Depends on which spec you are looking at. That could be talking about anything from finish to _____________
Most of your "guts" will be able to be swapped out with any generic AR parts with minimal to no fitting needed.

wddodge

I stand corrected. No problem. I don't recall where I read that it wasn't milspec but it was shortly after it was introduced. Maybe I read it wrong. I'm old......

Denny

mythaeus

wddodge wrote: »

I stand corrected. No problem. I don't recall where I read that it wasn't milspec but it was shortly after it was introduced. Maybe I read it wrong. I'm old......

Denny

You are correct that they had some issues with their first few batches. My M&P 15T was one of them and the PMag fitting issue leading to a lot of claims that the gun is not mil-spec, but no one has been able to confirm that there were something else that's out of specs. I just think they screwed up on something, which they have long fixed.

Al

sakodude

ericb wrote: »

I think they are a decent entry level AR that would make a good truck gun but for a little more $$ you can get a lot more gun. I don't like the fact that they come with an unlined 1:8 twist barrel. You can get an entry level Spikes for $ 859.

http://www.spikestactical.com/new/z/st15-midlength-le-carbine-p-443.html

Eric, so from what I see for the extra $200 you are getting the dust cover, forward assist, carry handle/sight arangement and hard chromed chamber and bore with a 1 in 7 twist, Is this correct? I truely am AR illiterate so if you would be so kind explain to me the advantage of having these extras.

Thanks,

Sako

ericb

sakodude wrote: »

Eric, so from what I see for the extra $200 you are getting the dust cover, forward assist, carry handle/sight arangement and hard chromed chamber and bore with a 1 in 7 twist, Is this correct? I truely am AR illiterate so if you would be so kind explain to me the advantage of having these extras.

Thanks,

Sako

I am not the most AR literate person myself. Obviously the dust cover is practical if the weapon is going to be a truck gun. Both the dust cover and Forward Assist go back to issues of the original M16s during the early stages of the Viet Nam War. They early models were very unreliable and sensitive to dirt and crud. The chromed chamber aids feeding and extraction while the lined bore is more durable. To me, without the FA and dust cover..the gun appears to unfinished.

I personally like the sights of the Spikes better than the ones furnished on the Smith. Don't get me wrong. I am glad SW is marketing this weapon. It will get more people involved in gun ownership and will be a viable home defense weapon both in its basic off the shelf form or as a platform to build on. I saw Cabelas in Billings had them for $599. That is a great price, even lower than the less a Mini 14.

sakodude

Sir George, that is a pretty nice looking set up. For my use tho, I do not see the need for a quad rail, vertical for-grip or the adjustable stock. From what I have gathered, the sportical does not come with sights ether and I really want to at least start with irons. Probable worth another look though.
Thanks.

Sako

SirGeorgeKillian

I like the adjustable stock because I am not the only one that shoots this rifle. Iron sites aren't too expensive, I like buying them aftermarket because you can get the ones you like. If it wasn't for my forward grip (which is now one with a built in bi pod) the quad rail would be a waste. I was planning on hanging a lot more stuff of those.....
I'm personally not a big fan of carry handles. I have never, nor will I ever use a carry handle for what it was designed for. I am also not too overly excited about chrome lined parts.

Durwood

I highly recommend the DPMS Sportical as well. Mine will hold under an inch at 100 yds for 5 shots with my handloads. I like the "slick side" because it doesn't ding up my brass. All I did was add a Chip McCormack trigger and an A2 style stock. Of course, I can switch back to the collapsible stock if I choose. I've seen them recently as low as $565:beer:

Bigslug

Unless you're looking for an NRA Service/Match Rifle, the lack of a chrome lined barrel is the kiss of death as far as I'm concerned. If you want a blaster, the chrome tubes are much longer lasting and much easier to clean. The forward assist is a nice to have item for certain circumstances. Personally, I like a faster twist than 1/9 (specifically the mil-spec 1/7) so that I can stabilize any existing .22 bullet, though 1/9 will work with pretty much all the cheap stuff.

Durwood

Should you really be shooting a round you have to "jam" into the chamber???

ericb

This is what I like and missed about this forum...opinions and knowledge. You can learn from everyone. :beer:

Michakav

I would not want the DPMS as it has no shell deflector. That could cause undue pain to lefty shooters.

SirGeorgeKillian

Lefties are used to pain :tooth:

Michakav

SirGeorgeKillian wrote: »

Lefties are used to pain :tooth:

You got that right

Pegasus

I have never used the forward assist on any of my ARs, it is a totally useless item, only to be used if you want to make a bad situation worse.

The 1:7 twist is too fast in my estimation and does nothing for civilian ammo. That fast a twist was required to stabilize the M856 tracer round. It's not fast enough to stabilize the 90gr SMK. A 1:9 twist is all that is really needed unless you want to shoot the long, single feed cartridges with 75gr A-Max or 80grainers from any bullet maker.

The Ejection Port Cover is useful if you travel with the bolt locked back. As you know, it's fairly easy to get the bolt to close without using the bolt release, just bump the rifle on the ground butt first and the bolt will close. So the port cover is not really needed either, but it is not as uselss as the forward assist.

The chrome-lining of bore and chamber is useful if you are a third-world peasant who does not know how to maintain a rifle, you like to bump-fire or your AR is full auto and you like to go through mags at a high rate of speed. My ARs do not have chrome lining and they always function, and shoot very straight.

As you can see, a case can be made for and against every aspect. What you need to do is decide what works for you. The S&W MP-15 is a fine rifle.

bullsi1911

Pegasus wrote: »

What you need to do is decide what works for you.

There is the answer.

ken55

I recently got an S&W M&P15 Sport model and I love it. It has everything it needs and nothing it doesn't. It comes with a very serviceable rear sight and a collapsible stock. The trigger is as good as any basic military trigger, too. So far I've got about 1000 rounds through it with a variety of ammo and no failures of any kind. I've haven't done a serious accuracy test but in just fooling around at the 100 yard line, I had no trouble keeping everything in the 3" black circle. It's a very good, light weight "working" gun and I highly recommend it for anybody who wants a basic AR. For the price, I don't think you can beat it. [Even better, I won mine in a drawing so it was free!]

Make_My_Day

I purchased my DPMS AR (M4A2) for $1098.00 in January of 2009, as the price of guns and ammo were rising due to the "O" getting elected. It's .223/5.56, has a 16" chromed barrel, dust cover and carry handle, and came with 2 30 round mags. I have no idea whether that was a fair price at the time. As I said, prices were rising, and I had seen similar AR models elsewhere for more money, so I was in a bit of a rush to get something before conditions got worse.

TSchub

A friend of mine bought one in Grand Rapids for $675.00. I was looking at one at the LGS for $695.00. They definitely can be found for those prices, just know what you want and don't settle.