Two new rifle projects.

ZeeZee Senior MemberPosts: 19,458 Senior Member
Well, I have finally decided what I'm going to do with the long and short action projects.

I am fast becoming a 7mm fan. Still love the 6.5 and have 3 of them, but the 7mm is calling me as well.

So, as I've mentioned on a few other threads, I WILL have a 7mm STW! After playing with my friends new STW, I love that cartridge. That, will be first on my list to complete and I'll use the B&C long action stock, Timney Trigger, and Leupold 4.5-14x50 to build it with. That, I'd already decided on. This rifle will be my reach out and touch something gun.

I've been tossing and turning with what to cartridge to build the short action rifle around. I'd sway one way and then the other. Finally, I had to decide what I wanted the rifle to do. Well, I have plenty of long barreled rifles. I have plenty of heavy rifles. I have a couple lightweight/22" pencil thin barrel rifles. I have plenty of short barreled/shorter range rifles. But, I don't have a normal weight/normal length/just plain NORMAL rifle.

After scouring the loading manuals I've decided what cartridge I'm going to build this short action rifle around...........

.284 Winchester

At shy of 3,000 fps with a 140gr bullet out of a 22" barrel and over 2,700 fps with a 168gr bullet, I think it'll be a dandy portable field gun for medium game.

I'll use a Remington 700 Short Action with Timney Trigger bedded in an HS Precision varmint stock. The barrel will likely be a 22" SS #3 contour 3-Groove Lilja barrel with 1-9" twist. I'll top it with a compact Leupold 3-9x TS-30 scope in Talley Lightweight rings and call it a day.

So, what do the masses have to say about this idea?
"To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith

Replies

  • Big Al1Big Al1 Senior Member Posts: 6,739 Senior Member
    Great minds think alike!!Two GREAT choices. Make sure you put a 26" barrel on the STW for max velocity.I built mine on an Oberndorf '98, just got a long magnum magazine, and tweeked the feed ramp a little, works great. Shot my best group ever with that rifle. 3 shots all holes touching at 100 yards.
    Can you chamber the .284 so you can seat the bullets to 3" OAL. If the Remington action is long enoungh, do it!. I made up a dummy round, based on the 150gr Nosler Part, and sent it along when I had it chambered. But my action is a Turkish '98. My load is 54.5 gr of 4350 for a little over 3000fps.
  • cpjcpj Senior Member Posts: 37,992 Senior Member
    7mm08.
    "I'm here for the guns, hunting, and skirt wearing men."
    Zee
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 19,458 Senior Member
    The STW will have a 28" SS #5 contour Fluted 3-Groove Lilja barrel with 1-9" twist. I will throat both the STW and the .284 long in order to seat the bullets out and make the most of case capacity. I don't care about seating in the magazine or not.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 19,458 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    7mm08.
    Nope. Not a fan.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • timctimc Senior Member Posts: 6,341 Senior Member
    Sounds like you gotta plan! I've been kinda wanting to try a bolt rifle project in 6.5 Grendel. I saw one at the range a while back and it was pretty sweet.
    timc - formerly known as timc on the last G&A forum and timc on the G&A forum before that and the G&A forum before that.....
    AKA: Former Founding Member
  • MileHighShooterMileHighShooter Senior Member Posts: 4,479 Senior Member
    Ya know oddly enough, today as I was walking out of the elk woods I was thinking I need to get in touch with Caleb about our ultralight and start talking about doing a 284 on the 5lbs R700 instead of the 308. I like the 308, big fan now that I've had one, but I just got to thinking something more specialized is going to complete that rifle better. Probably going to end up selling my current 308 as well, even though its a fantastic shooter its just too dang heavy, and I don't want to put any more money into it.

    I think a normal hunting weight rifle, in 284 Win, is just the ticket. Although, that Varmint stock isn't going to really make it a normal "hunting" rifle. You should just buy my Vanguard instead, that is pretty "normal" lol
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Once again, please refrain from cutting short any baseless totally emotional arguments with facts. It leads to boring, completely objective conversations well beyond the comprehension ability of many.
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 19,458 Senior Member
    Well, the Varmint stock is what I have. Gonna work with it. Besides, I prefer the way they feel and I'm not trying to build a lightweight. I already have that in my Kimbers. I'm just looking for a handy, comfortable rifle to carry around.

    No big scope, no long barrel, no brake (possibly). Just.......normal.

    I'm kinda up in the air as to barrel length. Leaning towards 22" but not ruling out 24". Just think 22" would suit my purpose for this rifle better.

    I should be able to get 3,000 and 2,800 with the 140 and 162gr respectively in a 22" barrel. That should do what I intend it to do. I want this to be a general purpose rifle. Not a specialty.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 6,661 Senior Member
    Ummmmm. . .I don't think the .284 is going to work too well in a shorty Remington. It's kinda midway between the .308 and .30-06 lengths, and you'll be cramming the bullet fairly far back to make it work, limiting your powder capacity. Doubt you'd end up with much more than 7-08 performance at the end of the day.

    HOWEVER. . .

    My Dad's NRA Match Rifle for a few years was a .284 built on a .30-06-length 700. Worked decently enough, but if we were going to do it again, we'd get a custom reamer with a longer throat. The "standard" .284 reamer will be set for a COAL more confining than a .30-06 magazine. Stretch that out a bit, and you've got lots of room for those long, slippery 7mm's - more room than you've have for them with a .280 Rem.

    Given that you're dealing with .30-06 case capacity, I'd be pondering a 24" skinny tube rather than a 22" - just how I'm wired.
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • wildgenewildgene Senior Member Posts: 1,036 Senior Member
    Bigslug wrote: »
    Ummmmm. . .I don't think the .284 is going to work too well in a shorty Remington. It's kinda midway between the .308 and .30-06 lengths, and you'll be cramming the bullet fairly far back to make it work, limiting your powder capacity. Doubt you'd end up with much more than 7-08 performance at the end of the day.

    HOWEVER. . .

    My Dad's NRA Match Rifle for a few years was a .284 built on a .30-06-length 700. Worked decently enough, but if we were going to do it again, we'd get a custom reamer with a longer throat. The "standard" .284 reamer will be set for a COAL more confining than a .30-06 magazine. Stretch that out a bit, and you've got lots of room for those long, slippery 7mm's - more room than you've have for them with a .280 Rem.

    Given that you're dealing with .30-06 case capacity, I'd be pondering a 24" skinny tube rather than a 22" - just how I'm wired.

    :that:
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 19,458 Senior Member
    I'm not worried about magazine length. Heck, my heavy barrel .280 Remington loads don't fit in the magazine!

    I'll throat the chamber long to seat the bullets out. I don't mind a single shot. The 162-168gr bullets likely won't fit the magazine so I'll single shoot them. The 140gr bullets might, though. Either way, I don't care.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 6,722 Senior Member
    As long as you want to throat long and shoot it as a single-shot, the 284 Win is a GREAT CHOICE!:win:
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 6,661 Senior Member
    Zee wrote: »
    The 162-168gr bullets likely won't fit the magazine so I'll single shoot them. The 140gr bullets might, though.

    Looking at my 1991-copyrighted Hornady manual, even with lightweight 120 grainers, the listed COAL is right at or very slightly below the cartridges' max of 2.905. A .308 maxes out at 2.850". Yeah, you could bump 'em back a bit, but it would be pretty limiting with longer, modern slugs.

    A long-chambered barrel installed on a large-ring Mauser would probably be the most space-efficient use of the .284 round. The 7x57 maxes out at 3.065", and the 8x57 at 3.000".

    With an '06 action, you've got 3.245" to work with.

    The only "SUCK" in the .284 is the short neck. The cool thing about running it in longer actions is you can seat those crazy-long VLD's to the base of the neck and still have them fit the magazine - unlike your .280

    For a shorty Remington, you'll be so near the magazine threshold even with varmint bullets that your best bet will be to insert a single-load follower. Were I building a long-range comp gun, I might go so far as to stiffen the action by welding up the magazine cutout. For a hunting gun, a bolt wouldn't be my first choice for a non-repeater, but whatever gives you the warm tinglies.

    Yes I AM trying to talk you into a long action. The .284/.280/.280 Ackley are among the very few rounds in the .30-06 class that have had a prayer of luring me away from the .30-06. It's mostly just that it's such an established round in my stable (plus a slight sense of history) that keeps me from branching out. My dad doesn't have my hang-ups, and will soon be matching my all-weather '06 700 XCRII with a .280 version of his own. The notion of matching the bulk of .30-06 throw-weights at .30-06 velocities with HIGHER 7mm B.C.s is sorely tempting - even to me. Seems like you're building the ultimate hunting rifle only to sell it short by chopping off the mag. Just making sure you've thought it through.:usa:
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 14,182 Senior Member
    Zee wrote: »
    I have plenty of short barreled/shorter range rifles. But, I don't have a normal weight/normal length/just plain NORMAL rifle.

    After scouring the loading manuals I've decided what cartridge I'm going to build this short action rifle around...........

    .338 Federal

    I'll use a Remington 700 Short Action with Timney Trigger bedded in an HS Precision varmint stock. The barrel will likely be a 22" SS #3 contour 3-Groove Lilja barrel with 1-9" twist. I'll top it with a compact Leupold 3-9x TS-30 scope in Talley Lightweight rings and call it a day.

    So, what do the masses have to say about this idea?

    Sounds great to me! But the .284 could be interesting.
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 19,458 Senior Member
    Bigslug,

    Yes , I've thought about it. Boils down to the fact that I just don't care if I have a magazine or not. I'll put a single shot follower in the action and reloads should be pretty quick if needed.

    A short action is what I have to work with, so I'm gonna make it work. The long action is going to the STW build and I just can't think of another short action cartridge I'm interested in.

    Kept thinking about the .338 Federal but kept asking myself, "why"? My .375 Ruger will cover the area the Federal would be used in as far as platform goes.

    The .284 is the second project in line after the STW so a bolt of lightening may strike me before I get around to it. But, for now, it makes the most sense to me. For what I need. The 24" barrel is tempting, but that will almost duplicate my 6.5-284 in it's 26" barrel. I want something different. I want something shorter and handier but still with reach.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 14,182 Senior Member
    Zee wrote: »
    Kept thinking about the .338 Federal but kept asking myself, "why"? My .375 Ruger will cover the area the Federal would be used in as far as platform goes.

    I see the .375 as more of a moose and brown bear type thing that would also be great for elk and black bear. I see the Federal as a black bear/elk type of thing that would also be great for deer. Either one would obviously be effective on down to chipmunk, but there is a serious jump in power from that .338 to .375.

    I do like the idea of a good all around sporter though. That is essentially what my .338 Fed is to me.
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 19,458 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    I see the .375 as more of a moose and brown bear type thing that would also be great for elk and black bear. I see the Federal as a black bear/elk type of thing that would also be great for deer. Either one would obviously be effective on down to chipmunk, but there is a serious jump in power from that .338 to .375.

    I do like the idea of a good all around sporter though. That is essentially what my .338 Fed is to me.

    Well, the .375 is obviously not needed for deer. But, why the heck not? :guns:
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 19,458 Senior Member
    Did some poking around the safe. When I get around to the .284 Win build, I think I'll do some stock swapping.

    The unused stock is an HS Precision Heavy Varmint. Meaning, palm swell, long beavertail forend, broad barrel chanel, dual sling swivel studs up front, etc. Well, that is obviously better suited for a heavy barrel affair.

    Then, looking at my .243 Medium, it has a 20" heavy barrel and is fitted to an HS Precision LTR Stock. Meaning, no palm swell, shorter and thiner beavertail forend, narrower barrel chanel but still wider than sporter, single stud up front. Basically, made for a less than portly rifle.

    Bam!

    I'll switch the stocks!!!! The Heavy Varmint is better suited for the 20" heavy barrel .243 and the LTR Stock is better suited for the .284 Win sporter.

    We have a winner!!!!!!
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 6,722 Senior Member
    Have I ever mentioned how good a 162 A-Max kills when the MV is in the 2700's?
    H-4831SC with the 162-168 and you are going to be a happy boy.
    Whatever barrel length you run, it will give good performance with the combo above.
    Nothing wrong with it being a "duplicate" to the 6.5-284--IMO it is not.
    Drop and drift may be close but the 160 class VLD's are a different cat over the 6.5's in terms of hunting.
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 19,458 Senior Member
    Not really worried about 'duplicating' the 6.5-284 ballistically or not. But, I DO want there to be a difference in the rifles themselves. Otherwise, there's not much point.

    The 6.5 has a trim stock and long 26" barrel w/ fixed 10x scope. I don't want the same thing twice. So, while the barrel will be the same contour, the .284 is envisioned to be a more compact version. Stock will be shorter, albeit stubier, and the scope more suited to compact work from the 22" barrel. Kind of a 'truck gun' if you will.

    Actually suited to the majority of the hunting situations I face around here.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 6,722 Senior Member
    A "truck gun" with the capability to go far.
    You get to have your cake and eat it too:that:
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 19,458 Senior Member
    Exactly.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,063 Senior Member
    Zee wrote: »
    Well, I have finally decided what I'm going to do with the long and short action projects.

    I am fast becoming a 7mm fan. Still love the 6.5 and have 3 of them, but the 7mm is calling me as well.

    So, as I've mentioned on a few other threads, I WILL have a 7mm STW! After playing with my friends new STW, I love that cartridge. That, will be first on my list to complete and I'll use the B&C long action stock, Timney Trigger, and Leupold 4.5-14x50 to build it with. That, I'd already decided on. This rifle will be my reach out and touch something gun.

    I've been tossing and turning with what to cartridge to build the short action rifle around. I'd sway one way and then the other. Finally, I had to decide what I wanted the rifle to do. Well, I have plenty of long barreled rifles. I have plenty of heavy rifles. I have a couple lightweight/22" pencil thin barrel rifles. I have plenty of short barreled/shorter range rifles. But, I don't have a normal weight/normal length/just plain NORMAL rifle.

    After scouring the loading manuals I've decided what cartridge I'm going to build this short action rifle around...........

    .284 Winchester

    At shy of 3,000 fps with a 140gr bullet out of a 22" barrel and over 2,700 fps with a 168gr bullet, I think it'll be a dandy portable field gun for medium game.

    I'll use a Remington 700 Short Action with Timney Trigger bedded in an HS Precision varmint stock. The barrel will likely be a 22" SS #3 contour 3-Groove Lilja barrel with 1-9" twist. I'll top it with a compact Leupold 3-9x TS-30 scope in Talley Lightweight rings and call it a day.

    So, what do the masses have to say about this idea?

    The 7mm STW has been a casual curiosity fo mine for a while. I look forward to your range report down the road. As for the .284, I'd vote for that one, too. Despite having a .280 Rem, I would like to rebarrel by .22-250 Rem 700 in to .284 Winchester and have a second classic 7mm cartridge.

    And if you select Berger pills...

    7mm 168gr VLD Hunting, G7 BC of 0.361
    308 168gr VLD Hunting, G7 BC of 0.242

    And they can both be pushed to 2700 fps in their repsective guns. That 7mm VLD is looking sweeeeeet.
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 19,458 Senior Member
    Yeah, I already have te .280 Remington, as you well know. But, it is a heavy barrel and 24" long with a 6.5-20x Leupold. More of a special purpose rifle.

    In this build, with the .284 Win, I'm looking for a more compact general purpose rifle. I think it will suit the bill perfectly. Actually looking at the 140gr Berger VLD, 160gr Sierra BTHP Gameking, and 162gr A-Max in consideration for this rifle. Not looking for a distance gun. It'll wear a 3-9x Leupold and have a 22" barrel. Just wanting a solid performer of a bullet out to 500 yards max. Most likely, sub 400 yards in general use. Kind of a grab and go gun.

    I think any of those bullets will work well for that usage. Keep the velocity up and don't really need the high BC for sub 400 yards. The 7 STW will get the 168-180gr Bergers for reaching out there.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
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