But, I didn't vote for that!

VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior MemberPosts: 6,460 Senior Member
It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.

Replies

  • jbp-ohiojbp-ohio Senior Member Posts: 9,451 Senior Member
    I've been telling anyone and everyone for years about how they are trying every trick in the book to make 'Green energy' look better by making traditional energy as expensive as possible.

    I tried to find something on the web on how expensive wind energy is. NO....... it's the cheapest everyone say. A $4,000,000 windmill with high maintenance cost that will power less than 500 homes when at 80% efficiency (which it will be less than 30-80% of the time depending on who you believe) is much better than $1.00 per 1000cf Natural gas.
    "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson
  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 6,978 Senior Member
    I have a friend who works in the industry (Windmill's) and told my wife and I it is about 7 times more expensive-GO figure.
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • robert38-55robert38-55 Senior Member Posts: 3,621 Senior Member

    Well like I said before to all these vote for Ovommit parasites, what ya going do when the well runs dry.
    "It is what it is":usa:
  • robert38-55robert38-55 Senior Member Posts: 3,621 Senior Member
    The last couple of years or so when I lived in Colorado, that state was/is/did,(I don't know now),started to jump on this WindMill engery thing. Heck there was/is a plant somewheres in Colorado Springs that make some of those components for those huge wind power turbines ya see somethimes.. I think the plant in Colorado Springs made either the towers or the blades. Then VESTA Wind Engery came to Brighton,Co. one day,sponspered a huge job fair,tried to pitch there building of the WindMills and plenty of jobs and:blah::blah::blah: to about 500 or more folks that attended like me. As far as I know VESTA never did build any plants and create jobs.
    "It is what it is":usa:
  • robert38-55robert38-55 Senior Member Posts: 3,621 Senior Member

    I didn't vote for that either but now I have to endure and live with it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    "It is what it is":usa:
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,253 Senior Member
    Has anyone factored in the cost of keeping a conventional generator in "spinning reserve" status- - - - -turning, but not producing any current- - - -for every windmill out there? That's in case of a sudden wind shift or other stoppage, so the conventional generator can take over the power production with a minimum of delay. All that has to be coordinated with the power grid so there won't be any surprises in case of a "green" energy source having a sudden malfunction. What's supposed to power that backup system? Coal, gas, oil, or hydro, maybe?
    Jerry
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • robert38-55robert38-55 Senior Member Posts: 3,621 Senior Member
    Teach wrote: »
    Has anyone factored in the cost of keeping a conventional generator in "spinning reserve" status- - - - -turning, but not producing any current- - - -for every windmill out there? That's in case of a sudden wind shift or other stoppage, so the conventional generator can take over the power production with a minimum of delay. All that has to be coordinated with the power grid so there won't be any surprises in case of a "green" energy source having a sudden malfunction. What's supposed to power that backup system? Coal, gas, oil, or hydro, maybe?
    Jerry

    Well Teach, I know I never thought about that angle or issue before. I know that powerplants have to have a constant supply of fuel,doesn't matter what kind of fuel,but they have to have fuel to produce electric power. Wind,being the Windmills source of power is not always predictable. Good point!!!! Sometimes the wind doesn't always blow or blow in from the correct direction to turn those Windmills. Although the blades can alter their angles and I would imagine that the Pod the propeller is attatched to,might be able to rotate somewhat too. I wouldn't think any US engineer's are ignorant enough to go completely green without some kind of backup system or some contingency plan for this very reason. But then again I think given the current situation with the current paradigm and way of thinking it would not surprise me, if know one ever thought about this.
    "It is what it is":usa:
  • robert38-55robert38-55 Senior Member Posts: 3,621 Senior Member
    I have a friend who works in the industry (Windmill's) and told my wife and I it is about 7 times more expensive-GO figure.

    Well Ernie, I have read articles,and heard other folks say the same thing. I don't the exact link,or article but ya remember about a year before the election? Obama was talking to someone ( I think it was on 60 minutes),IIRC and I distinctly remember him say this: "One thing the American people can expect,is for engery cost to increase under my watch."
    What a bold statement huh?
    "It is what it is":usa:
  • robert38-55robert38-55 Senior Member Posts: 3,621 Senior Member
    jbp-ohio wrote: »
    I've been telling anyone and everyone for years about how they are trying every trick in the book to make 'Green energy' look better by making traditional energy as expensive as possible.

    I tried to find something on the web on how expensive wind energy is. NO....... it's the cheapest everyone say. A $4,000,000 windmill with high maintenance cost that will power less than 500 homes when at 80% efficiency (which it will be less than 30-80% of the time depending on who you believe) is much better than $1.00 per 1000cf Natural gas.
    :applause::applause::applause::applause::agree::agree::agree::agree:


    This might help jbp-ohio:

    The Real Cost of Renewable Energy

    May 7, 2012

    By Ken Blanchard

    I took a few minutes last week to determine what wind and solar energy actually cost. Proceeding on the assumption that the real cost of a turtle is how much cash ends up in the hands of the turtle seller, per shell, I wondered how much consumers pay for a given unit of energy and how much other money producers get for various forms of energy generation.

    The average price of residential electricity in the U.S. is about 12 cents per kilowatt hour but varies widely by state, according to the Energy Information Administration. In South Dakota it is nine cents. In Alaska it is almost twice that and in Hawaii, three times that. Doing a quick conversion, Americans pay on average about $120 per megawatt hour for electricity.

    That is not quite the price of electricity, for energy producers also receive state and federal subsidies. Add the subsidy to the retail price and you get a reasonable estimate of the real cost. The Institute for Energy Research calculated the cost of federal subsidies from the EIA’s production reports. I cannot find anywhere that the EIA actually tells us what we need to know here: subsidies per unit of energy produced.

    The IER finds that in 2007 natural gas and petroleum liquids received about $0.25 in Federal subsidies for every megawatt hour produced. Coal gets $0.44; hydroelectric, $0.67; and nuclear power gets $1.69. About 87% of our electricity is produced from those sources. Given that, the subsidies add up to considerable amounts of money. The total increase is still only a small fraction of the cost of the energy.

    In 2007, subsidies for wind and solar power per megawatt hour were $23 and $24 respectively. That obviously dwarfs the subsidies for conventional sources and it means that electricity from these sources costs considerably more. A megawatt hour from coal would cost $120.44. A megawatt hour of wind or solar generated electricity costs $144.

    That was back in 2007. As a result of the stimulus bill, subsidies to all sources of energy increased, but the subsidies for renewables ballooned. Here are the numbers for 2010:

    For solar power, they were $775.64 per megawatt hour, for wind $56.29, for nuclear $3.14, for hydroelectric power $0.82, for coal $0.64 and for natural gas and petroleum liquids $0.64.

    That means that wind energy is now costing over $170 per unit. Solar power is off the charts at almost $900. I admit some astonishment that the solar industry in the U.S. is not booming rather than wobbling. At that level of reimbursement, you’d think they’d be giving away whole house solar instillations for joining Netflix.

    Proponents of renewable energy will argue that there are large costs involved in fossil fuel production and consumption (environmental degradation, health, etc.). That may be true, but it gets the cart before the horse. One turtle may be cooler than another and one form of energy generation may be more desirable than another. That doesn’t change how much the turtle or the megawatt hour costs.

    It misses something else, equally important. Subsidies shift wealth from one place to another. Wealth shifted to renewables is wealth generated by non-renewables. As long as the subsidies last, they don’t reduce the secondary costs of traditional energy.

    What they do accomplish, with mathematical certainty, is to make energy more expensive in the short run. This is not ruinous only because the renewables produce less that 3% of our electricity. Of course, it may be that the subsidies will eventually kick in and wind and solar power will dramatically increase production while prices fall precipitously. Is there any sign that that is happening? How efficient would these machines have to become (10 times as efficient?) and how much turf would we have to cover with pinwheels and panels before these sources constituted 20% of electricity generation?

    Wind power and solar power are pretty ideas. They have been the sources of the future for as long as the monorail has been the transportation of the future. Maybe one day they will really pan out. Right now, these industries are neither producing jobs nor economic growth. They are absorbing both.

    Dr. Ken Blanchard is a professor of Political Science at Northern State University and writes for the Aberdeen American News and the blog South Dakota Politics.

    http://southdakotamagazine.com/renewable-energy-costs
    "It is what it is":usa:
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,253 Senior Member
    One of my fellow moderators on another forum is deeply involved in windpower politics in Oklahoma. Some of the facts and figures he comes up with are downright scary concerning cost of operation, and where the federal funding is actually going. Big Brother has some friends with very deep pockets, and they're busy stuffing them full of our tax dollars!
    Jerry
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • robert38-55robert38-55 Senior Member Posts: 3,621 Senior Member
    Teach wrote: »
    One of my fellow moderators on another forum is deeply involved in windpower politics in Oklahoma. Some of the facts and figures he comes up with are downright scary concerning cost of operation, and where the federal funding is actually going. Big Brother has some friends with very deep pockets, and they're busy stuffing them full of our tax dollars!
    Jerry

    That's about the status-quo these days ain't it Teach?
    "It is what it is":usa:
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