A theory on the Middle East conflict

I heard a commentary recently suggesting that Iran is using Hamas and the rocket attacks to occupy Israel. If Israel is occupied with Hamas, It can't attack Iran and iran buys more time. Any opinions?
We do not view the world as it is, but as we perceive it to be.
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Replies

  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,259 Senior Member
    Hamas is the annoying mosquito buzzing around Israel's ears. If it becomes necessary to squash them, I'm sure Israel has the capability to do so with little if any distraction from their primary goal of keeping Iran on the defensive. The simple thing to do would be to make Gaza a bad memory, but I don't think they're quite ready to do that.
    Jerry
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 23,897 Senior Member
    I heard that theory on the news today and it could be true; but,
    I also heard that the Iranian reactor has a problem and has been shut down.
    A Veteran is someone that served in the Military, it does not matter where they served.
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,552 Senior Member
    Israel is no doubt on full alert against any move by Iran. They have been war-gaming possible scenarios for at least 50 years. They could maybe be beaten by sheer force of numbers, if their enemies ever united and did something really smart. But if you take the nukes out of the equation, their enemies are far weaker and less organized than they were in '73. If you put nukes into the equation, Israel will probably still win, but it could be a victory they can't afford.
  • robert38-55robert38-55 Senior Member Posts: 3,621 Senior Member
    Teach wrote: »
    Hamas is the annoying mosquito buzzing around Israel's ears. If it becomes necessary to squash them, I'm sure Israel has the capability to do so with little if any distraction from their primary goal of keeping Iran on the defensive. The simple thing to do would be to make Gaza a bad memory, but I don't think they're quite ready to do that.
    Jerry
    :that::agree:

    NN wrote:
    I heard that theory on the news today and it could be true; but,
    I also heard that the Iranian reactor has a problem and has been shut down
    :that::agree:

    gunwalker wrote:
    I heard a commentary recently suggesting that Iran is using Hamas and the rocket attacks to occupy Israel. If Israel is occupied with Hamas, It can't attack Iran and iran buys more time. Any opinions?

    Israel is not going to let a few Hamas Rockets, distract them from the real issues, that face them,they are too smart and wise for that.
    "It is what it is":usa:
  • robert38-55robert38-55 Senior Member Posts: 3,621 Senior Member
    bisley wrote: »
    Israel is no doubt on full alert against any move by Iran. They have been war-gaming possible scenarios for at least 50 years. They could maybe be beaten by sheer force of numbers, if their enemies ever united and did something really smart. But if you take the nukes out of the equation, their enemies are far weaker and less organized than they were in '73. If you put nukes into the equation, Israel will probably still win, but it could be a victory they can't afford.

    I don't know bisley if they can't afford the victory. I would think that the country of Israel,can pretty much hold their own. What really bothers me is wether or not our US President Obama will back the country of Israel, like most of our past presidents have. If Obama doesn't back Israel, then we will see:fan: in more ways than can be imagined.

    Israel hits Hamas media operations, rocket fired at Tel Aviv.

    5:47AM EST November 18. 2012 -

    GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip (AP) — Israeli strikes hit two media centers in the Gaza Strip on Sunday, as Israel warned it was widening its range of targets to go after military commanders of the territory's Hamas rulers. Palestinian militants meanwhile fired at least one more long-range rocket at Tel Aviv, the fourth day in a row which the Israeli heartland has come under fire.

    The fifth day of Israel's campaign against Gaza rocket operations finds it at a crossroads of whether to launch a ground invasion or pursue Egyptian-led truce efforts. Israel has said it is not prepared to enter into a truce without guarantees the rocket fire won't resume.

    "The Israeli military is prepared to significantly expand the operation," Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu declared at the start of the weekly Cabinet meeting.

    Early Sunday, the military carried out dozens of attacks on rocket-launching sites, a major training base and the two media centers. Israeli gunboats also fired on militant sites on the Gaza shore line, the military said without elaborating.

    Seven Palestinian civilians were killed in airstrikes Sunday, including five children ranging in age from one to 11, according to Ashraf al-Kidra, a Gaza health official.

    Two of the children, a 3-year-old girl and a 5-year-old boy, were from the same family and were killed by an airstrike on the three-story home in the town of Beit Lahiya. Hamas security officials said three missiles struck the house, owned by a Gaza family with links to militants' rocket squads. It was not known if any militants were in or near the house at the time of the strike. Another strike targeted a Hamas militant in his car outside his home in the Shati refugee camp near Gaza City, but also killed an 11-year-old girl passing by at the time, al-Kidra said.

    The deaths bring to 53 the number of Palestinians killed since the operation began on Wednesday. Twenty of the dead were civilians, and more than 400 civilians have been wounded, al-Kidra said. On the Israeli side, three civilians have been killed and more than 50 wounded by rocket fire.

    The military said another rocket was fired at Tel Aviv, but was intercepted by the "Iron Dome" missile defense system. Police spokesman Micky Rosenfeld said two rockets were fired. It was impossible to immediately reconcile the two reports.

    The repeated rocket fire on Tel Aviv and Friday's attack toward Jerusalem have significantly escalated the hostilities by widening the militants' rocket range and putting 3.5 million Israelis, or half the country's population, within reach. The attempt to strike Jerusalem also has symbolic resonance because both Israel and the Palestinians claim the holy city for a capital.

    The strikes on the media centers hit two high-rise buildings, damaging the top floor offices of the Hamas TV station, Al Aqsa, and a Lebanese-based broadcaster, Al Quds TV, seen as sympathetic to the Islamists.




    A Gaza press association said six Palestinian journalists were wounded, including one who lost a leg. Foreign broadcasters, including British, German and Italian TV outlets, also had offices in the high-rises.

    The Israeli military said it was aiming at a communications antenna on the roof of one of the buildings. It had no immediate comment on the other strike.

    Bassem Madhoun, an employee of Dubai TV, said two missiles scored a direct hit on Al Aqsa TV's 15th floor offices in one of the buildings.

    Building windows were blown out and glass shards and debris were scattered on the street below. Some of the journalists who had been inside the building at the time took cover in the entrance hallway.

    Mohammed Shrafi, a Palestinian cameraman, said he was in the street filming when he was hit by shrapnel coming down from the building.

    Asked why Israel was targeting media centers, he replied, "They want to keep us from telling the truth."

    Israel's military spokesman. Brig. Gen. Yoav Mordechai, warned that Israel would go after Hamas commanders Sunday, in addition to rocket squads, in "more targeted, more surgical and more deadly" attacks.

    Mordechai, the Israeli military spokesman, told Army Radio that despite truce efforts, the military has been ordered to intensify its attacks, following a late-night meeting led by Netanyahu and Defense Minister Ehud Barak.

    "I imagine in the next few hours, we will see ongoing targeted attacks on gunmen and Hamas commanders," Mordechai said. "More targeted, more surgical and more deadly.

    Israel launched its military campaign on Wednesday, after months of renewed rocket fire from Gaza, by assassinating Hamas' military chief in an airstrike. Since then, it has relentlessly targeted suspected rocket-launching and storage sites.

    While Israel was suggesting the campaign might heat up, Gaza Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh of Hamas spoke for 20 minutes by phone Sunday with Egyptian President Mohammed Morsi, who is trying to broker a cease-fire between Israel and Hamas, according to Haniyeh's office.

    Haniyeh told Morsi he supports such efforts, provided Hamas receives "guarantees that will prevent any future aggression" by Israel, his office said in a statement.

    <!--iframe-->


    A quick agreement appears unlikely because the two sides are far apart in their demands. Hamas is linking a truce deal to a complete lifting of the border blockade on Gaza imposed by Israel and Morsi's pro-Western predecessor, Hosni Mubarak, in 2007, after the Islamists seized the territory by force. Hamas also seeks Israeli guarantees to halt targeted killings of its leaders and military commanders.

    Israeli officials reject such demands. They say they are not interested in a "timeout," and want firm guarantees that the rocket fire will finally end. Past cease-fires have been short lived.

    Israeli Defense Ministry director Udi Shani told Army Radio that Israel's operation against Gaza militants was not meant to topple the Islamic militant Hamas, but to cripple its capabilities to attack Israel.

    "If we don't achieve our goals from the air, we will have to enter by ground," Shani said. "I hope in the coming days it will be decided."

    In Iran, Israel's arch-foe, parliament speaker Ali Larijani urged Islamic countries to send weapons for Palestinians.

    "Today, serious military help is expected. Why can the United States and the West hand over weapons to the Zionist regime, or Israel, but weapons should not be given to Palestine?" state radio broadcast Larijani telling parliament.

    Copyright 2012 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed

    If ya click the lind there is a good map of Israel, and some other good pictures on there.

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2012/11/18/israel-hamas-media-gaza/1711967/
    "It is what it is":usa:
  • Jim TomJim Tom Member Posts: 338 Member
    I kind of wonder if Israel didn't provoke this conflict by killing hamas' chief, knowing hamas would start flinging rockets, thereby giving Israel an excuse to wipe out hamas' missile capability prior to going after Iran later. Israel knows if and when they or the US attack Iran's nuclear infrastructure, hamas' missiles would start raining down on them anyway, so by going after hamas' missles now and crippling hamas, they won't have to fight on two fronts when the real war starts.
  • Dr. dbDr. db Senior Member Posts: 1,541 Senior Member
    I wonder if this is a good summary of the region: 1. If Israel put down its weapons the Arabs would wipe it out. 2. If the Arabs put down their weapons then there would be peace. Dennis Prager symbolizes it that way.
  • FiveSevenFiveSeven Member Posts: 289 Member
    Jim Tom wrote: »
    I kind of wonder if Israel didn't provoke this conflict by killing hamas' chief, knowing hamas would start flinging rockets, thereby giving Israel an excuse to wipe out hamas' missile capability prior to going after Iran later. Israel knows if and when they or the US attack Iran's nuclear infrastructure, hamas' missiles would start raining down on them anyway, so by going after hamas' missles now and crippling hamas, they won't have to fight on two fronts when the real war starts.

    You got the cart before the horse. Hamas fired missiles first. Israel took out Hamas leader second.
    Only the optimists suggest that the future is uncertain. The pessimists have done the math.
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 25,765 Senior Member
    Hamas has been firing rockets from Gaza into Israel all year, and all last year, and the year before that. Hamas has been supplied, by Iran, with longer range missiles with larger warheads this year. Israel got tired of it, especially with the recent escalation of missiles hitting their cities, including Jerusalem, and took out the Hamas leader. Hamas escalated more and Israel started the air strikes on the missile launchers. Being the people they are, Hamas has their launchers and missile storage in heavily populated areas. The better to squeal like a piggy wound up in an electric fence when Israel takes the launchers and storage facilities out with precision weapons, and some civilians get killed.

    Hamas is like an idiot smoking around a black powder mill. They act all surprised when they get blown up, and blame somebody else.
    Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.


  • robert38-55robert38-55 Senior Member Posts: 3,621 Senior Member
    tennmike wrote: »
    Hamas has been firing rockets from Gaza into Israel all year, and all last year, and the year before that. Hamas has been supplied, by Iran, with longer range missiles with larger warheads this year. Israel got tired of it, especially with the recent escalation of missiles hitting their cities, including Jerusalem, and took out the Hamas leader. Hamas escalated more and Israel started the air strikes on the missile launchers. Being the people they are, Hamas has their launchers and missile storage in heavily populated areas. The better to squeal like a piggy wound up in an electric fence when Israel takes the launchers and storage facilities out with precision weapons, and some civilians get killed.

    Hamas is like an idiot smoking around a black powder mill. They act all surprised when they get blown up, and blame somebody else.

    Hamas is like a fly, all the time eating crap/pooh, and bothering someone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:agree::that:
    "It is what it is":usa:
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,552 Senior Member
    This is just another verse in the same old song that has been going on for decades - Palestinian terrorists kill Israeli civilians, Israel protests to the UN, the UN makes excuses for the Palestinians, or blames Israel outright, the Palestinians escalate until Israel kicks their butts, and the world sees nothing but the collateral damage caused by the terrorists hiding among civilians or in Mosques.

    Israel will go in and do a major search and destroy of all missile sites and known terror camps, civilians will die, and the Palestinians will cry foul - same old stuff, except that while the world watches this, Iran is chugging along with their nuclear program.
  • robert38-55robert38-55 Senior Member Posts: 3,621 Senior Member
    bisley wrote: »
    This is just another verse in the same old song that has been going on for decades - Palestinian terrorists kill Israeli civilians, Israel protests to the UN, the UN makes excuses for the Palestinians, or blames Israel outright, the Palestinians escalate until Israel kicks their butts, and the world sees nothing but the collateral damage caused by the terrorists hiding among civilians or in Mosques.

    Israel will go in and do a major search and destroy of all missile sites and known terror camps, civilians will die, and the Palestinians will cry foul - same old stuff, except that while the world watches this, Iran is chugging along with their nuclear program.

    True bisely, but what I don't understand is this. Look at a map of the middle east. We had/have US troops in Iraq which is just to the west of Iran,and we had/have US troops in Afghanistan, which is just to the east of Iran. Strategically/tactically we had IRAN sandwiched in for the kill!!!!!!!! click to see the map.

    http://www.infoplease.com/atlas/middleeast.html
    "It is what it is":usa:
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,051 Senior Member
    Maybe because there's not a lot of troops in Iraq, and those in Afghanistan are kinda busy with other stuff?
    Overkill is underrated.
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,552 Senior Member
    We had/have US troops in Iraq which is just to the west of Iran,and we had/have US troops in Afghanistan, which is just to the east of Iran. Strategically/tactically we had IRAN sandwiched in for the kill!!!!!!!! click to see the map.

    Yes, I was pointing this out years ago, when so many were after Bush for going into Iraq. It was a very good reason for the nation-building argument, if there is a good argument for that. We should have at least gotten a major base out of the whole Iraq thing.

    Our geo-political strategy is virtually non-existent, now, and we will probably pay for that, in the long run. The vaccum will be filled, and not by anyone who likes us.
  • alphasigmookiealphasigmookie Senior Member Posts: 8,585 Senior Member
    bisley wrote: »
    This is just another verse in the same old song that has been going on for decades - Palestinian terrorists kill Israeli civilians, Israel protests to the UN, the UN makes excuses for the Palestinians, or blames Israel outright, the Palestinians escalate until Israel kicks their butts, and the world sees nothing but the collateral damage caused by the terrorists hiding among civilians or in Mosques.

    I'm just putting this out there to play devils advocate, but most here are very much in favor of freedom and people's right to self government. The Palestinians are being effectively ruled by a foreign country with virtually no say in their government and their land constantly being stolen to bring in immigrants from the ruling country. Yes the tactics they are using to gain their freedom can rightfully be called terrorism and the killing of civilians is inexcusable, but I just wonder how opinions on the conflict might be different if it were the Arab Muslims ruling the jews and taking their land instead of the other way around. The only viable long term outcome is a fully independent Palestinian state, anything less is just a simmering pot just waiting to boil over.
    "Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
    -DoctorWho
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 25,765 Senior Member
    Well, Alpha, you're missing a big point. Since wars became a popular pastime of tribes, colonies, and governments in general it has been the accepted custom that the loser in the conflict gives up something. Land, for instance, is one of those 'spoils of war'. The Palestinians were given the chance to become citizens of Israel right after the state of Israel won recognition in a war. They refused then and formed the enclaves in the West Bank and Gaza, and tried to push the Israleis out by warfare. They even got involved in the two large wars against Israel in the '60s and '70's and had their backsides handed to them. They don't want peace; they want all Jewish people dead so they can revert what is now Israel to the squalid dustheap it was before.

    They have been offered peace before, many times, and refuse. They demand what they know they cannot get, and use that as an excuse for more warfare. They have fired more than 1,000 rockets into Israel this year. Let that fact sink in. 1,000 rockets that have hit schools, homes, and other civilian targets. Not military targets. This is nothing more than terrorism on a large scale. Israel strikes back and the liberals in the U.S., and the world at large, go batscat nutzballs over Israel taking out the missile launchers and missile storage sites that the ignorant but devious terrorists have placed in population centers to garner insipid sympathy from the liberals who cry "Bad Israel!" when the inevitable civilians get killed even with the use of precision munitions.

    Play into, buy into, the 'Poor little downtrodden Palestinians' if you wish. But even a cursory examination of the history since Israel became a state will reveal that the Palestinians did not want peace then, or any of the decades after, nor do they wish for peace now. The Palestinians are the definition of insanity; they keep doing the same suicidal things over and over again expecting a different result.
    Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.


  • FiveSevenFiveSeven Member Posts: 289 Member
    I'm just putting this out there to play devils advocate, but most here are very much in favor of freedom and people's right to self government. The Palestinians are being effectively ruled by a foreign country with virtually no say in their government and their land constantly being stolen to bring in immigrants from the ruling country. Yes the tactics they are using to gain their freedom can rightfully be called terrorism and the killing of civilians is inexcusable, but I just wonder how opinions on the conflict might be different if it were the Arab Muslims ruling the jews and taking their land instead of the other way around. The only viable long term outcome is a fully independent Palestinian state, anything less is just a simmering pot just waiting to boil over.

    Let's look at your theory... We give Palistinians their own state. Oh joy. Now Israel has another enemy country to deal with. You are talking about a group of people, the arabs, who have one view of Israel, to destroy it. It doesn't matter if the Jews gave the Palistinians 99% of the land that they own and a free state because that wouldn't be enough for the arabs. Beside, arabs live more freely in Israel than in any arab country in the world.
    Only the optimists suggest that the future is uncertain. The pessimists have done the math.
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,552 Senior Member
    I'm just putting this out there to play devils advocate, but most here are very much in favor of freedom and people's right to self government. The Palestinians are being effectively ruled by a foreign country with virtually no say in their government and their land constantly being stolen to bring in immigrants from the ruling country. Yes the tactics they are using to gain their freedom can rightfully be called terrorism and the killing of civilians is inexcusable, but I just wonder how opinions on the conflict might be different if it were the Arab Muslims ruling the jews and taking their land instead of the other way around. The only viable long term outcome is a fully independent Palestinian state, anything less is just a simmering pot just waiting to boil over.

    If the Palestinians are so worthy, why don't the Arab/Islamic nations help them raise themselves up? They don't want them, either, so they use them as tools to try to keep Israel down. The Palestinians have never negotiated in good faith, and have nothing to offer in a negotiation, anyway, but to say they will be nice. They won't even do that, so why would anybody want to give them anything? They can't even get along with each other, so why would anybody think Israel could get along with them?

    The smart Palestinians have assimilated themselves into other cultures. What is left of them are criminals, for the most part, who will kill an Israeli non-combatant, like squashing a bug.
  • alphasigmookiealphasigmookie Senior Member Posts: 8,585 Senior Member
    tennmike wrote: »
    Well, Alpha, you're missing a big point. Since wars became a popular pastime of tribes, colonies, and governments in general it has been the accepted custom that the loser in the conflict gives up something. Land, for instance, is one of those 'spoils of war'. The Palestinians were given the chance to become citizens of Israel right after the state of Israel won recognition in a war. They refused then and formed the enclaves in the West Bank and Gaza, and tried to push the Israleis out by warfare. They even got involved in the two large wars against Israel in the '60s and '70's and had their backsides handed to them. They don't want peace; they want all Jewish people dead so they can revert what is now Israel to the squalid dustheap it was before.

    They have been offered peace before, many times, and refuse. They demand what they know they cannot get, and use that as an excuse for more warfare. They have fired more than 1,000 rockets into Israel this year. Let that fact sink in. 1,000 rockets that have hit schools, homes, and other civilian targets. Not military targets. This is nothing more than terrorism on a large scale. Israel strikes back and the liberals in the U.S., and the world at large, go batscat nutzballs over Israel taking out the missile launchers and missile storage sites that the ignorant but devious terrorists have placed in population centers to garner insipid sympathy from the liberals who cry "Bad Israel!" when the inevitable civilians get killed even with the use of precision munitions.

    Play into, buy into, the 'Poor little downtrodden Palestinians' if you wish. But even a cursory examination of the history since Israel became a state will reveal that the Palestinians did not want peace then, or any of the decades after, nor do they wish for peace now. The Palestinians are the definition of insanity; they keep doing the same suicidal things over and over again expecting a different result.

    Would we have given up if things had gone differently and we lost the revolutionary war? Do you think everyone would have just gone home and say "well we gave it our best try but they beat us" and that would be the end of it? Revolutionary movements are extremely hard to stamp out. They have one primary goal (free and independent control of whatever land they believe is theirs) and until they achieve it they will be a pain in your rear until you get tried of it and decide whatever land you're occupying isn't worth the cost in lives and treasure. I really don't see there ever being a point when most Palestinians say to themselves that they don't really want freedom and are happy to willingly accept Israeli rule and "assimilate".
    "Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
    -DoctorWho
  • FiveSevenFiveSeven Member Posts: 289 Member
    Would we have given up if things had gone differently and we lost the revolutionary war? Do you think everyone would have just gone home and say "well we gave it our best try but they beat us" and that would be the end of it? Revolutionary movements are extremely hard to stamp out. They have one primary goal (free and independent control of whatever land they believe is theirs) and until they achieve it they will be a pain in your rear until you get tried of it and decide whatever land you're occupying isn't worth the cost in lives and treasure. I really don't see there ever being a point when most Palestinians say to themselves that they don't really want freedom and are happy to willingly accept Israeli rule and "assimilate".

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIEeiDjdUuU

    i find this a much more viable option.
    Only the optimists suggest that the future is uncertain. The pessimists have done the math.
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 25,765 Senior Member
    Nice deflection, Alpha. You totally ignored the STONE COLD FACT that the Palestinians do not want peace; they want all Jews DEAD as in genocide. The Palestinians don't want peace and a separate state; they want all Jews out of what is Israel so that they can occupy the land. They wish to do so by killing as many Jews as is possible in the process. So how about addressing the REAL PROBLEM, that being that the world has on their rose colored glasses and expects Israel to just roll over and let the Palestinians, et al, murder them and occupy what is now Israel. There can be no peace with a bunch of genocidal maniacs on the other side of the fence. Those rose colored glasses let those in the West unable to see the truth pretend that the Palestinians have the same characteristics as themselves. The Palestinians aren't like us in hardly any way at all, unless there is a movement I'm unaware of in the West that dresses their children in fake suicide vests and teaches them the joys of suicide bombing, making bombs to blow up buses, and killing someone because they are of a different religion.

    Read the words of Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood regarding Israel. Peace is not their goal.
    Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.


  • alphasigmookiealphasigmookie Senior Member Posts: 8,585 Senior Member
    tennmike wrote: »
    Nice deflection, Alpha. You totally ignored the STONE COLD FACT that the Palestinians do not want peace; they want all Jews DEAD as in genocide. The Palestinians don't want peace and a separate state; they want all Jews out of what is Israel so that they can occupy the land. They wish to do so by killing as many Jews as is possible in the process. So how about addressing the REAL PROBLEM, that being that the world has on their rose colored glasses and expects Israel to just roll over and let the Palestinians, et al, murder them and occupy what is now Israel. There can be no peace with a bunch of genocidal maniacs on the other side of the fence. Those rose colored glasses let those in the West unable to see the truth pretend that the Palestinians have the same characteristics as themselves. The Palestinians aren't like us in hardly any way at all, unless there is a movement I'm unaware of in the West that dresses their children in fake suicide vests and teaches them the joys of suicide bombing, making bombs to blow up buses, and killing someone because they are of a different religion.

    Read the words of Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood regarding Israel. Peace is not their goal.

    You forget the part where foreign invaders came in and took over land that they were previously in control of. The closest western comparison is probably Northern Ireland. The tactics used by the IRA actually aren't that different than those used by the PLA and Hammas.
    "Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
    -DoctorWho
  • FiveSevenFiveSeven Member Posts: 289 Member
    You forget the part where foreign invaders came in and took over land that they were previously in control of. The closest western comparison is probably Northern Ireland. The tactics used by the IRA actually aren't that different than those used by the PLA and Hammas.

    Jews were there before the Muslims by close to a thousand years. Furthermore, Palistine is a region not a people. If you would study you would find that most of the "Palistinian" people are actually Jordanian, Syrian, Iraqi, Lebonese, et al. Israel offered them citizenship, some took it and some didn't. The ones that didn't and tried to leave were not allowed entry by the countries they were trying to get into. Why would somebody do that you ask? So some liberal can sit over here and at Israel about a problem the Arabs themselves created.
    Only the optimists suggest that the future is uncertain. The pessimists have done the math.
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,259 Senior Member
    Simple solution- - - - -occupy Gaza, and take no prisoners. As soon as that mission is accomplished, Israel should turn its attention east, and establish a 100-mile-wide no man's land as a buffer zone to minimize the possibility of an attack from that direction. Then take on Iran!
    Jerry
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 14,834 Senior Member
    , but I just wonder how opinions on the conflict might be different if it were the Arab Muslims ruling the jews

    Really? Think about that for just a second....The Arab Muslims could not possibly RULE the Jews because the Jews would be dead...
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,259 Senior Member
    Read the history of Masada, and then pontificate about anybody "ruling" Israel ever again!

    http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/masada.html

    Jerry
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • robert38-55robert38-55 Senior Member Posts: 3,621 Senior Member
    Teach wrote: »
    Read the history of Masada, and then pontificate about anybody "ruling" Israel ever again!

    http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/masada.html

    Jerry

    Thanks a million Teach. I just now got the opportunity to read your link,now that the TV is off and everyone has turned in for the night. I read it twice. It's the missing link,of Israel's history,that I have been looking for on the web. Again thanks for the research. Now I have a much better understanding of the conflict in the middle east.

    I always had a feeling that no empire or country would ever defeat or hold Israel captive again,now I know why.
    "It is what it is":usa:
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 25,765 Senior Member
    Robert38-55, here's a brief timeline of the land of Israel and the Jewish state. It might clear up a few misconceptions, and has links to other parts of the history of Israel. It blows the liberal viewpoint out of the water.

    http://www.science.co.il/arab-israeli-conflict.asp
    Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.


  • Shoemaker SethShoemaker Seth Member Posts: 136 Member
    tennmike wrote: »
    Robert38-55, here's a brief timeline of the land of Israel and the Jewish state. It might clear up a few misconceptions, and has links to other parts of the history of Israel. It blows the liberal viewpoint out of the water.

    http://www.science.co.il/arab-israeli-conflict.asp

    My great grandmother was exiled from Lebanon by her parents. She never saw them again after she was 8 years old. Muslims were persecuting her family to the point that the situation was untenable. This was before Israel even existed.
    Some threads I read for information. Others I read for entertainment value.
  • steffen19ksteffen19k Member Posts: 255 Member
    This is all I can think of when I see this...

    I believe we're on the eve of destruction.
    Here is everything I know about war: Someone wins, Someone loses, and nothing is ever the same again.
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