Home› Main Category› Second Amendment/Politics
robert38-55
Senior MemberDenver,Co.Posts: 3,621 Senior Member
Peaceful Afghan City Fears War After US Pullout...

I saw this article this morning on the web. Could happen I suppose,remember what happened when we pulled out of Vietnam? I know those are two entirley different situations then and now but the common factor is we have to leave Afghanistan.
'Everything will go back to the early 1990s, when there was a civil war among the mujahedeen groups'
HERAT, Afghanistan — Women in Converse sneakers jog untrammeled — if still in full, flowing chadors — in this western Afghan city’s biggest park, enjoying freedoms rarely witnessed in the rest of Afghanistan.
Rich businessmen, refugees for a few days of “picnic” from more violent Kandahar, pull on apple-scented shisha pipes like lotus eaters in the pagodas of the local pleasure garden. Unwary for once of kidnappers or suicide bombers, they punctuate the night with hoots of laughter.
Herat, an ancient trading city of minarets and wide avenues in the brown borderlands of western Afghanistan, has probably advanced further than any other in this country toward modernity over the past 10 years. There is a quiet and firm belief here that if any place can ride out the coming economic and security turbulence as international forces and money depart, it will be this city.
Yet there are still whispers of encroaching violence, tremors of economic downturn, calls by a local strongman to rearm against the Taliban, conservative opposition to modernization — and doubt.
“War will start,” said Ghulam Reza, a slight man with a gray beard and turban, an old mujahedeen fighter who had brought his two grown-up daughters and their husbands to the Citadel, one of Herat’s landmarks.
It's a pretty good sized article here is the link for more information.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/49881971/ns/world_news-the_new_york_times/?ocid=msnhp&=4
'Everything will go back to the early 1990s, when there was a civil war among the mujahedeen groups'
HERAT, Afghanistan — Women in Converse sneakers jog untrammeled — if still in full, flowing chadors — in this western Afghan city’s biggest park, enjoying freedoms rarely witnessed in the rest of Afghanistan.
Rich businessmen, refugees for a few days of “picnic” from more violent Kandahar, pull on apple-scented shisha pipes like lotus eaters in the pagodas of the local pleasure garden. Unwary for once of kidnappers or suicide bombers, they punctuate the night with hoots of laughter.
Herat, an ancient trading city of minarets and wide avenues in the brown borderlands of western Afghanistan, has probably advanced further than any other in this country toward modernity over the past 10 years. There is a quiet and firm belief here that if any place can ride out the coming economic and security turbulence as international forces and money depart, it will be this city.
Yet there are still whispers of encroaching violence, tremors of economic downturn, calls by a local strongman to rearm against the Taliban, conservative opposition to modernization — and doubt.
“War will start,” said Ghulam Reza, a slight man with a gray beard and turban, an old mujahedeen fighter who had brought his two grown-up daughters and their husbands to the Citadel, one of Herat’s landmarks.
It's a pretty good sized article here is the link for more information.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/49881971/ns/world_news-the_new_york_times/?ocid=msnhp&=4
"It is what it is":usa:
Replies
It's a sad state of affairs when we send our best Americans to fight a war that they can't finish because the politicians make impossible rules of engagement and the home folks get tired of it and elect somebody who promises to bail out.
Might as well bring 'em all home right now, and save some American lives - leaving on a certain timetable that the enemy knows is idiotic. Nothing will be gained by staying, if the enemy can just sit back and relax till their opposition is gone, of its own accord.
Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
Thats probably the best thing to do:agree::that:
I will never be convienced and I never was convienced from the getgo, that these Islamic Muslims,practice peace and harmony regardless of what they say there Koran teaches!!!!!!!!!!!! The Muslims are some sick degenerates!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
― Douglas Adams
Isn't that easier said than done in a lot of cases Jay?
I see what your getting at tennmike. Again I see what Jayhawker was getting at too. What in your guy's opinion should have been done the 10 years we were there? The reason I ask is this: (1). I have never been in the Military. (2). I don't understand sometimes how politics and military thinking comes together for the greater good. I could use some education and enlightenment on this subject. Thanks..
Just depends how serious you are about not being oppressed......
First, you have to go back to the beginning, to the first year we were there and what the mission was to accomplish. When you have this piece of information firmly in your grasp, trace where that mission jumped the tracks and went off into terra incognita due to mission creep, and the inevitable meddling of our political leaders and their irrepressible fancy for dabbling in that failed old notion of "nation building". We've had no success at dragging the unwilling into the present anywhere we've tried; they prefer their present state of existence to any benefit of that 'new state' offered no matter how bad their present state of being seems to us. The notion that we can lead people to a place they are unwilling to follow is obviously a flawed idea. Cultural dogma trumps political dogma, every time. Throw in several religious factions of the same religion, and there is no hope whatsoever.
We should have stayed on the stated mission goal, and accomplished it, or left within a year. That mission was to find and capture or kill Bin Laden. Staying past a year gave the politicians room to meddle and collapse the original purpose. Nation building is a fool's errand practiced by fools. Human nature is an odd thing. People don't need a lot to be happy, but one thing people demand with vigor is to be left alone. We should leave them alone unless they ask for help to progress. Meddling in the affairs of others is always fraught with peril, be it with family, friends, or nations.
― Douglas Adams
Jerry
Just another reason to love my country and HATE the insipid fools in the government running it into the ground. Either fight to win with the enemy's unconditional surrender, or stay the heck out. Half measures are, and have been, entirely unsatisfactory.
― Douglas Adams
Jerry
If we tell them when we are leaving, they will just wait till we leave and then come back with a vengeance.
Oh well. We warned em.
-Mikhail Kalashnikov
Well said sir. I said something like that to my family some time ago. You go in, do the job and get out. You prosecute war with extreme predjudice.
.... Again I can't thank you guys enough for the replies!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Great fellows!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have one more question then I have to sign off,going to Colorado this morning for Thanksgiving,back in a few days.....
The next question I have, and I though of this after reading Teach's reply: Why do our US politicians have to meddle in Military affairs? Is it because they control the purse strings for our Fighting men and women, or are they just arrogant,and have to perfom what I call 'Job Justification?' And I understand the points made about Nation building but didn't we do Ok with that after WW II in Germany,Japan? Look at those countries now,seems like they are in better shape than we are.
ETA: I went back and re-read your guy's post. I think I just discovered the answer to my own questions:
tennmike wrote:
Teach wrote:
Thanks again fellows,even my feeble mind can actually understand this now.
Jerry