Home› Main Category› Personal Defense
kmeiersks
Posts: 121 Member
.22 lr vs .25 acp for PD
kmeiersks
Posts: 121 Member
Browsing the LGS I came accross 2 pocket guns in .22 and .25. Little Berettas. The thought occurred to me that the lowly .22 could make a better PD round than the .25. It has more velocity, better penetration, and you can afford to feed it more. I own both and must say I like the .22 more. The .25 imo is as usefull as a dead horse. What y'all say?
Replies
In a 3 inch barrel the 25 ACP makes about 75 FPE. I have a pellet gun that makes more energy than that...
The .22 LR is not any better...
D
Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
any firearm is better than nothing. how good is your HTH combat techniques?
- Don Burt
How bad is your PD plan if a last ditch resort is your plan.
(also right after taking the 3 rounds, he tried to shoot the husband point blank but his gun jammed.)
moral of the story... .380 and no less!
If I HAD to pick one however, I'd go with the twenty-five. Along the same lines of some gun is better than no gun.....some projectile is better than no projectile. While yes, the .25 might not get the job done, I've seen too many rimfires that didn't have primer in the rim, (even CCI's and a few "match" brands as well) to put any kind of real trust in them.
When I practice with it, I only target the face at close range. I understand its limitations.
Adam J. McCleod
I tend to think outside the box.....................in a completely different room.
― Douglas Adams
Wasn't impressed.
Not really related.......If you ever happen to see my uncle without his shirt on, you'll notice 7 little dots on his stomach, if you were to ask him about the dot's, he'll give you a story about, not only the inadequacy of the .25acp, but also his stupidity.
Before he married my aunt (also an idiot), he liked to cheat on his wife (still does), upon being caught for the umpteenth time by his then wife, she pulled a little .25 on him. He quickly, calmly, and intelligently defused the situation by telling her, "B!%(#", you ain't gonna shoot me, you ain't got the guts."
Hence the 7 little dot's on his stomach and my belief that the .25 is a piss poor defensive cartridge.
Rank does not concur privileges. It imposes responsibility. Author unknow
I remember seeing a news blurb about 15 years ago of a guy that was carjacked, and the assailant pointed a little Beretta .25 in his face and pulled the trigger. The bullet hit the dude square between the eyes.
The victim then walked into the hospital. A doctor removed the FMJ slug from his sinus cavity with a probe and a pair of forceps, and the dude walked out of the hospital a few hours later with one of those little round bandaids between his eyes.
The .22 is for squirrels. The .25ACP is a round that should die and never be spoken of again (Full disclosure, I own a .25ACP CZ model of 1945 that only is there because I collect CZs). Your life is worth more than a .25Auto or a .22LR. Get a better gun.
-Mikhail Kalashnikov
I beg to differ with the part of your post I bolded. The .25 ACP is a darned adequate squirrel round from my .25 ACP rifle with either handloaded 50 grain FMJ or the 35 grain hollow points. :tooth:
I also have two Colt Pocket Hammerless .25 ACP pistols that belonged to my Granddad.
― Douglas Adams
I don't think anyone has ever said that before. :roll2:
I've got a .25acp Beretta Bobcat.
I inherited it and my Blackhawk when my step-dad died. They are my least shot guns (not crazy about either one), but would be the last two I'd ever get rid of.
But yes, so long as the .22 ammo is selected carefully, I would give it the nod. My choice would be the CCI Mini Mag copper plated solid, what with over my lifetime having fired a pile of them about the size of one of Saturn's moons and not being able to recall a single dud.
The .25 Auto, I think, makes for the perfect storm of bad things that can happen with a defensive pistol: it's typically chambered in guns that are hard to shoot accurately; it's a round that NEEDS to be shot accurately to have any positive effect at all (and might not even then); and the cost of ammo is such that you probably won't be practicing enough to exploit the little potential it has.
As I've said elsewhere and often, you need shot placement first and penetration second. Only then can you afford to start worrying about diameter, expansion, and other "special effects". With the .25, you're hard-pressed to get any of the three. The .22LR may be a small-diameter drill, but it least it's a sharp one with a much better chance of having the necessary licks to get to the Tootsie Roll center of the Tootsiepop.
"Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
That's funny stuff right there! :roll2:
George Carlin
:cool:Glad I could help out.
Rank does not concur privileges. It imposes responsibility. Author unknow
Hmmm. . .I think this thread just gave me the name for the .375 Ackley Magnum I'm building - I shall call him "Mr. Owl":tooth:
One thing to remember about the .25 - It's a pre-antibiotics, and largely pre-freaky-narcotics cartridge. Back in 1905, you didn't have PCP or meth, and any bullet would likely carry in a bacteria-laden parcel of wool clothing, particulate horse manure (the "automotive smog" of the era), and skin that maybe got bathed once a week. If he were transported back in time to 1905 and the same scenario re-enacted, there's a very good chance that Eli's uncle would not have survived to talk about "the seven little dots on his stomach".
Thing is, it was only ever a deterrent cartridge even then, and it was a better deterrent when the criminal populace at large had horror stories of how their buddies lingered for a number of feverish, pus-filled days. Today, the cure for the common .25 is amoxocillin, ibuprofen, and a Band Aid. The old facet of infection as a deterrent is gone from the criminal psyche, so even if you're hoping that the presence of your handgun will do the job mentally, it better have the juice to do the job physically. To be effective as a fight stopper, a bullet must reach and damage major arteries, spine, or brains, and the .25 can reliably do NONE of these things.
I think it may well be the one and only totally worthless thing John Moses Browning ever came up with. He already had pocket-sized .32's at the time, so the .25 wasn't even a low-intensity player in early auto pistol development. I'm pretty sure that as a Mormon, the man didn't drink, so we can't blame substance abuse for the round. . .gotta wonder what he was thinking.
One of my dilemmas as a gun collector - I want a Colt 1908 vest pocket or FN Baby for my JMB collection, but they are very expensive nasal-inhalers these days. . .:bang:
"Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
This one was bought by my Grandfather in the early 20's and although it's fun to shoot, it wouldn't be the first thing I'd grab if I had to investigate a noise in the night! But as you say, it adds to ones collection of JMB's many creations. It is fun to shoot but hard to hit much with. :up:
A .25 ACP is better than no gun at all. I remember years ago hearing where a FLA State Trooper was shot with one and it bounced off his belt buckle, another was shot with one in the belly and died a couple days later. Not an immediate man-stopper by any stretch of the imagination. Like I said, a little .25 ACP in my pocket would be better than nuthin and 5 or 6 up close hits might just dissuade an attacker, at least, better than my fist.
My idy of a .22 for SD would be 10 quick shots from a Ruger MK II/III or 9 from an older MK 1 pistol or 10/22 or Marlin model 60 with 14 shots when it was all that was available. In a small semi pistol, a .25 ACP may be a better choice, especially a well made one like the Baby Browning. I don't know of many small and reliable .22 semis these days? Beretta tomcat or is it Bear Cat?
Didn't someone on here build a .25 ACP rifle on here years ago? Don't remember what kind of accuracy he got with it.
Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
This was the approach we took for my grandmother in her declining years - her DA .32 Colt (short or long, I can't remember) was something she could no longer run the trigger on, and the ammo was hard to find and expensive when it was. The single action Ruger MKI she ended up with was a much better state of affairs.
The Beretta 21 is the gun you're thinking of - a tilt-up barrel, DA-to-SA, available in .22LR. Pretty reliable little gun when fed what it likes. The WEIRD thing about it is that it has no extractor - - the gun is dependent on blow-back to clear brass from the chamber, and a conventional tap-and-rack drill will only double-feed the gun.
Unfortunately, Walther quit making the TPH, which was basically a 2/3rd's scale PPK - about as slick a watch-fob gun as you could ask for.
"Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
D
Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester: