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Mil-Dot Reticle - Who likes them?

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Replies

  • beartrackerbeartracker Senior Member Posts: 3,116 Senior Member
    Ernie is close to converting me and I am really resisting the temptation (oxymoron from Greek ὀξύμωρον, "sharp dull" is a figure of speech that combines contradictory terms - preacher tempting someone). :tooth: Just in passing, what cartridge could one build an SP using a Rem 700 long action? :guns:
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,788 Senior Member
    IF, you have a BDC reticle and adjustable turrets you can do the same thing, but most don't use a BDC reticle this way.

    It had never occurred to me to do it that way. I may do some experimenting with using the BDC that way, since I'm not going for extreme ranges. It might be that I just need to do more thinking and practicing, and simply master the equipment I already have.
  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 7,425 Senior Member
    One challenge of dialing off of ballistic reticle is that many of the subtension of the lines/dots are not in 1/4 MOA increments like your turrets will be. And at that, they are not even consistent from line to line.
    It still can work good, but thumbs down to the designers of the reticles for making it harder to use the reticle in a way which easily surpasses holdovers with a ballistic reticle.
    bisley wrote: »
    It had never occurred to me to do it that way. I may do some experimenting with using the BDC that way, since I'm not going for extreme ranges. It might be that I just need to do more thinking and practicing, and simply master the equipment I already have.
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • snake284-1snake284-1 Senior Member Posts: 2,500 Senior Member
    Ernie is close to converting me and I am really resisting the temptation (oxymoron from Greek ὀξύμωρον, "sharp dull" is a figure of speech that combines contradictory terms - preacher tempting someone). :tooth: Just in passing, what cartridge could one build an SP using a Rem 700 long action? :guns:

    HMMMM.... How bout a .270?:jester:
    I'm Just a Radical Right Wing Nutt Job, Trying to Help Save My Country!
  • beartrackerbeartracker Senior Member Posts: 3,116 Senior Member
    snake284-1 wrote: »
    HMMMM.... How bout a .270?:jester:

    Hey, watch that bad language :jester:
  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 7,425 Senior Member
    IF the Rem 700 LA is a non-designated action, then yes, with any chambering a 700 LA can handle.
    If it is a designated rifle action, then the barrel has to be over 16" and the overall length has to be either 24 or 26". Can't remember.
    I think 24"
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • beartrackerbeartracker Senior Member Posts: 3,116 Senior Member
    IF the Rem 700 LA is a non-designated action, then yes, with any chambering a 700 LA can handle.
    If it is a designated rifle action, then the barrel has to be over 16" and the overall length has to be either 24 or 26". Can't remember.
    I think 24"

    help me out hear, what do you mean by non-designated or designated, tell me the difference please. I think I know what you mean, that it was an action from a factory made rife then it is designated.
  • stepmacstepmac Member Posts: 172 Member
    If one is in the people killing biz, as in the infantry, I think the mil Dot system would be okay. I, however; was trained on an M-14 a LONG time ago when the thought of a mill dot was pie in the sky. In the infantry you do want to be able to engage the enemy at long range. Kill'em while they are still way out there!

    However, for a hunting rifle I'm still a peep sight kinda guy. Sorry, that is how I was trained and I'm still comfortable with the iron sights, but only to about 200 yds. I seldom shoot farther than that anyway. For really long range shooting at game, a scope works fine, but around here most folks kill at 50 to 100 yds. Bow shooters and muzzle loader fiends do about as well as the guys shooting a cannon with their scope turned up to 9.
  • RazorbackerRazorbacker Senior Member Posts: 4,646 Senior Member
    stepmac wrote: »
    If one is in the people killing biz, as in the infantry, I think the mil Dot system would be okay. I, however; was trained on an M-14 a LONG time ago when the thought of a mill dot was pie in the sky. In the infantry you do want to be able to engage the enemy at long range. Kill'em while they are still way out there!

    However, for a hunting rifle I'm still a peep sight kinda guy. Sorry, that is how I was trained and I'm still comfortable with the iron sights, but only to about 200 yds. I seldom shoot farther than that anyway. For really long range shooting at game, a scope works fine, but around here most folks kill at 50 to 100 yds. Bow shooters and muzzle loader fiends do about as well as the guys shooting a cannon with their scope turned up to 9.

    Welcome to the forum. Wow, irons to 200 yds impressive.
    Teach your children to love guns, they'll never be able to afford drugs
  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 7,425 Senior Member
    Welcome to G&A.
    Bisley is looking at going about double the distance of 200.
    Number of ways the MIL or MOA reticle can be used at distance, without never giving thought to 2-legged varmints:jester:
    Appreciate your skill with irons:up:
    stepmac wrote: »
    If one is in the people killing biz, as in the infantry, I think the mil Dot system would be okay. I, however; was trained on an M-14 a LONG time ago when the thought of a mill dot was pie in the sky. In the infantry you do want to be able to engage the enemy at long range. Kill'em while they are still way out there!

    However, for a hunting rifle I'm still a peep sight kinda guy. Sorry, that is how I was trained and I'm still comfortable with the iron sights, but only to about 200 yds. I seldom shoot farther than that anyway. For really long range shooting at game, a scope works fine, but around here most folks kill at 50 to 100 yds. Bow shooters and muzzle loader fiends do about as well as the guys shooting a cannon with their scope turned up to 9.
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • stepmacstepmac Member Posts: 172 Member
    Welcome to the forum. Wow, irons to 200 yds impressive.

    Thank you Razorbacker, but really 200 yds with iron sights is no big deal. I shoot an M-1 Garand at the 500 yd gong and keep it swing'n. It's 24" square, and at that range it looks narrower than the post front sight.

    I notice, that most young shooters today shoot through a scope, that's fine, of course and you will hit a bit better, but still I think that iron sight shooting is a valid thing. I also like shooting over iron sights in the brush better than I do a scope. For one thing a scope makes a rifle more difficult to point, as in say, at a charging feral pig. Also they catch brush and you find yourself kind of fighting that scope all day long.

    My brush guns? A Winchester Model 100 in 308, a Savage 99 in the same and a wonderful old and very beat up Mannlicher Schoneaur on '06. I don't think I spelled that correctly. But here's the rifle:


    rifles016.jpg

    This 1952 Model MS carbine is a pawn shop find. It was beat all to dickens, and it's stock had been shortened and a homemade butt pad affixed. I figure that someone set it up for his wife to take a Africa. If she did, the gun spent a lot of time banging around in the back seat of the Landrover. Shoots great however and the stock is not broken, just dinged. The front sight had been pounded down flat, so it shot high as a cat's back, so I replaced it with a Marble post and it shoots fine now.

    Wanna see another pic of it?

    rifles018.jpg
  • RazorbackerRazorbacker Senior Member Posts: 4,646 Senior Member
    Well you've got better eyes than I do then. But these guys are talking about mil dots. Lets not hijack the thread. You could start one though or even go over to the clubhouse section and introduce yourself. Nice rifle btw
    Teach your children to love guns, they'll never be able to afford drugs
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,788 Senior Member
    stepmac wrote: »
    However, for a hunting rifle I'm still a peep sight kinda guy. Sorry, that is how I was trained and I'm still comfortable with the iron sights, but only to about 200 yds. I seldom shoot farther than that anyway. For really long range shooting at game, a scope works fine, but around here most folks kill at 50 to 100 yds. Bow shooters and muzzle loader fiends do about as well as the guys shooting a cannon with their scope turned up to 9.

    This is not really about what is needed - more about what is wanted. In truth, a .30-30 rifle with iron sights is more than adequate for the kind of hunting I do, if my eyes were up to the challenge. A peep would correct some of the focus problems, but they don't work as well in the deep shadow that I would find myself in, more often than not.

    My dad and his brothers were all great iron sight rifle marksmen who made up 4/5 of their National Guard rifle team, back in the late forties. None of them ever used scopes, and I've seen them make some impressive long range shots. I have a lot of respect for anyone who can accomplish what they want to, without a scope, but I can't, and besides, they are fun to play with.

    -
  • snake284-1snake284-1 Senior Member Posts: 2,500 Senior Member
    bisley wrote: »
    I'm a little ways away from being confident enough to shoot game at longer distances, and truthfully, the opportunities I have had are rarely much over 100 yards. But, since I spend much more time shooting at paper than fur, I might as well shoot as far as my equipment and abilities will allow. The little bit of practice I've done at 200 and 300 yards is only helping me shoot better from the bench - a good thing, because it is challenging and fun. I wish I hadn't waited till I was 61 years old to start doing it, but I can still learn things that I'm interested in.

    Also, with a little bit of tree trimming (next year, probably) I can shoot 300 yards plus from my deer blind. If I could consistently hit a spot on paper at that distance, I might try a whitetail - hogs, coyotes, or bobcats, for sure.

    Join the club! I don't get the warm and fuzzy looking at game past 200 yards. In fact, unless it's a once or twice in a lifetime shot, I probably won't take it.

    Edited to Add: I've taken longer shots, but lately for some reason, 200 yards has moved out a ways from where it was. :rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflmao:

    And I know what you mean about age. I'm 64 and so many things come up in retirement that I never had the opportunity or took the time to do while I was working and now I have an interest in. It leaves me wishing I'd done it years back. But then I was reading an article in the paper about a local woman who took up violin at 60 and now plays in an orchestra at 81. So you probably have enough time to enjoy it.
    I'm Just a Radical Right Wing Nutt Job, Trying to Help Save My Country!
  • CMWCMW Member Posts: 53 Member
    I like Mil dot and i have come to love scope and not irons becuase of my eyesight. even though im really you my eyesight isnt great. its good without glasses and i just wont were a pair of glasses, but back on topic. For me mildots ar too big and too far apart for precision use. I prefer a reticle with dashes spaced at 1 mil and smaller dashes spaced in between, a good example would be the leupold tmr or the nightforce mlr. my favourite reticle though are the horus reticle. No turret adjusments are needed with there reticle after zero, just make a hol over and shoot
    "Life is tough, it's tougher if your stupid." - John Wayne
  • sarg1csarg1c Senior Member Posts: 1,707 Senior Member
    Here's a method we used to use for distance, just sub 39" instead of 66" for deer.mildot.jpg
  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 7,425 Senior Member
    I use software that let's me choose the target size, and then that data is automatically put into my drop chart, so that if my technology doesn't work for any reason I have information very quickly. My MOA reticle subtends down to 2/10ths of an MOA (Extremely fine) which allows me to be more accurate. For big game, I see somewhere around 500 yards as being the max distance I would want to RR, since differences in animal sizes can make a difference.
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • sarg1csarg1c Senior Member Posts: 1,707 Senior Member
    I use software that let's me choose the target size, and then that data is automatically put into my drop chart, so that if my technology doesn't work for any reason I have information very quickly. My MOA reticle subtends down to 2/10ths of an MOA (Extremely fine) which allows me to be more accurate. For big game, I see somewhere around 500 yards as being the max distance I would want to RR, since differences in animal sizes can make a difference.

    That is correct Ernie, with the method I posted, you have to know the height of the object, A whitetail through the body is about 39" I have no Ideal about an elk and it's been solong ago A rangefinder would do me better, but would probably take longer to range. I only used this for distance, still have to know the right bullet drop info...
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,788 Senior Member
    After 'listening' to everybody, I decided to take the middle of the road, for now. My equipment and abilities don't yet merit a high dollar scope, and I want to try something different from the BDC reticle I've been stuck on for some time, now. This rifle will likely be used for short to mid range hunting, unless it turns out that it (and me) are up to a longer range challenge. After I settle on the load, and determine the capabilities of the rifle, I can always switch to one of the Nikons I already have, or eventually buy something that is tailored to the kind of shooting I think I'm capable of.

    So, for now I'm going with the Redfield Revolution, 4-12x40, AccuRange reticle. The price is right, I've looked through one and liked it, and I am impressed with Jayhawker's statement that he quit the Nikon in favor of the Redfield. I've been curious about them ever since Leupold started running the business, so I'm gonna try one. Also, back in my early rifle days, Redfield was the 'go to' choice for people who could afford a little more than a K4 Weaver, so that may have influenced me. If I don't like it on this rifle, I can mix and match with the Nikons, or if I eventually want to start dialing in with the turrets, I may buy a Leupold that is maybe better suited for that, in one of the reticles that the long range shooters here have proved out. Anyway, I ordered the Redfield and the PEPR mounts, I'm about to start making some ammo, and I hope to be sighting in and testing loads next week.

    Thanks for the help, and please continue the discussion - I'm learning here.
  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 7,425 Senior Member
    What rifle and chambering?
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 7,425 Senior Member
    I always use a LRF, and pack spare batteries. If I am hunting with someone else, if they don't have a LRF, I have them carry my spare LRF.
    But, if everything goes down and "Murphy" is having his way, I can reticle range. Not my choice, but it is a good back-up plan.
    sarg1c wrote: »
    That is correct Ernie, with the method I posted, you have to know the height of the object, A whitetail through the body is about 39" I have no Ideal about an elk and it's been solong ago A rangefinder would do me better, but would probably take longer to range. I only used this for distance, still have to know the right bullet drop info...
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • beartrackerbeartracker Senior Member Posts: 3,116 Senior Member
    Ernie is so right as he usually is on this stuff. Take a Range finder, you can always reticle range as he said if Murphy is in the field with you. It is good to finally make a choice and have a plan. I know you will do well and finally even try other things later on. Good luck, looking forward to seeing how things work for you.
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 20,850 Senior Member
    help me out hear, what do you mean by non-designated or designated, tell me the difference please. I think I know what you mean, that it was an action from a factory made rife then it is designated.
    Non-designated = "virgin" receiver meaning it has never been a rifle
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 7,425 Senior Member
    Thanks Paul!:worthy:
    I forgot to respond to that question.
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 20,850 Senior Member
    Thanks Paul!:worthy:
    I forgot to respond to that question.
    No problem :beer:
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • beartrackerbeartracker Senior Member Posts: 3,116 Senior Member
    knitepoet wrote: »
    Non-designated = "virgin" receiver meaning it has never been a rifle

    Thank you Paul, I thought that might the case but was not for sure. Appreciate it, well this LA 700 will not see SP days, but Midway is now selling Remington 700 actions again.
  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 7,425 Senior Member
    Brownells sells them too
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • snake284-1snake284-1 Senior Member Posts: 2,500 Senior Member
    At first I didn't think too much of the dots and liked the Nikon BDC. But after buying one mil dot reticle scope I fell in love with the dots, AFTER I found out how little area they cover. And besides that, I found that I can put the target right at the top of the dot and hit it dead on. NOW to figure out how to REALLY use them....
    I'm Just a Radical Right Wing Nutt Job, Trying to Help Save My Country!
  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 7,425 Senior Member
    Since you likely have a reticle that is in the second focal plane (SFP), you need to look at your scope's owner manual and find out at what power setting will give you the correct subtension. If yo have a fixed power scope, then no worries of course!:jester:
    MIL-RADIAN/MIL measures 3.6 inches per 100 yards. It is an angular measurement.
    At 100 yards 1 MIL is 3.6", and at 200 yards 1 MIL is 7.2", etc....
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • snake284-1snake284-1 Senior Member Posts: 2,500 Senior Member
    Since you likely have a reticle that is in the second focal plane (SFP), you need to look at your scope's owner manual and find out at what power setting will give you the correct subtension. If yo have a fixed power scope, then no worries of course!:jester:
    MIL-RADIAN/MIL measures 3.6 inches per 100 yards. It is an angular measurement.
    At 100 yards 1 MIL is 3.6", and at 200 yards 1 MIL is 7.2", etc....

    So 300 yards would be...9.8" or 14.4"?
    I'm Just a Radical Right Wing Nutt Job, Trying to Help Save My Country!
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