GOP blocks hunter access bill

alphasigmookiealphasigmookie Senior MemberPosts: 8,788 Senior Member
Republicans supported opening lands for outdoorsmen and many other provisions in the bill sponsored by Democratic Sen. Jon Tester, but GOP senators blocked the legislation on principle Monday evening in a mostly party-line procedural vote after Senate Budget Committee's top Republican, Jeff Sessions of Alabama, objected to spending on conservation programs included in the bill.

The sportsmen's bill would increase land access and allow hunters to bring home as trophies 41 polar bears killed in Canada before the government started protecting polar bears as a threatened species. The legislation would also exclude ammunition and tackle from federal environmental laws that regulate lead, allow bow hunters to cross federal land where hunting isn't allowed, encourage federal land agencies to help states maintain shooting ranges, boost fish populations and protect animal habitat.

http://news.yahoo.com/gop-blocks-bill-hunters-more-land-access-010500663.html

Obviously I'll have to dig deeper into this. Not sure how much this bill would have spent and exactly on what, but seems like something they should have supported.
"Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
-DoctorWho
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Replies

  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 15,351 Senior Member
    Please look deeper. I am still not sure if this is a good or bad thing.
  • alphasigmookiealphasigmookie Senior Member Posts: 8,788 Senior Member
    "Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
    -DoctorWho
  • alphasigmookiealphasigmookie Senior Member Posts: 8,788 Senior Member
    Sen. Pete Sessions, R-Ala., argued it would breach the spending caps in the 2011 debt limit law by authorizing $142 million in spending over the next 10 years.

    Sessions also opposes a provision that would increase to $15 the cost of duck stamps, saying all revenue measures must originate in the House.

    http://www.greatfallstribune.com/article/20121126/NEWS01/311260032/Senate-deals-setback-Tester-sportsmen-bill?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|Frontpage|s

    Looks like the whole bill would cost $14M/yr...not much, but raise the price of duck stamps (not exactly sure what those are) to pay for wetlands conservation efforts. NRA supports it but I guess GAO is against it.

    Another article with a bit more detail:
    http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1112/84254_Page2.html

    Anyway it looks like a political pissing match over minor details. My guess is the R's underlying objection is that they don't want to give credit to the D's by passing a D sponsored pro gun bill as it might hurt their case that all D's are scary gun grabbers constantly looking for opportunities to limit their rights.
    "Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
    -DoctorWho
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    NRA supports it but I guess GAO is against it.

    What does the General Accounting Office have to do with the bill? I believe Sessions' main objection is to the procedure that's being used, not the bill itself. Setting a precedent with a seemingly-innocuous piece of legislation is one of the libs' favorite tactics. The NRA has gotten entirely too cozy with some of the gun-grabbers for quite some time- - - -they need as much of a house-cleaning as congress does.
    Jerry
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • robert38-55robert38-55 Senior Member Posts: 3,621 Senior Member
    I wasn't sure if I should post this here or in the Hunting forum. Anyway the Mods. here can fix it for me if need be.

    The bill would have increased land access and allow hunters to bring home as trophies 41 polar bears killed in Canada before the government started protecting polar bears as a threatened species.

    WASHINGTON — A wide-ranging bill to give hunters and fishermen more access to public lands stalled in the Senate Monday after Republicans said it spends too much money.

    Republicans supported opening lands for outdoorsmen and many other provisions in the bill sponsored by Democratic Sen. Jon Tester, but GOP senators blocked the legislation on principle Monday evening in a mostly party-line procedural vote after Senate Budget Committee's top Republican, Jeff Sessions of Alabama, objected to spending on conservation programs included in the bill.

    The sportsmen's bill would increase land access and allow hunters to bring home as trophies 41 polar bears killed in Canada before the government started protecting polar bears as a threatened species. The legislation would also exclude ammunition and tackle from federal environmental laws that regulate lead, allow bow hunters to cross federal land where hunting isn't allowed, encourage federal land agencies to help states maintain shooting ranges, boost fish populations and protect animal habitat.

    Sessions said he supported the overall bill but objected to spending on conservation programs that he said violated budget rules. Democrats argued that the bill also raised money for those provisions.

    The bill also faced some objections from environmental groups over the polar bear imports and exclusions from lead standards.

    The lead provision threatens public health and the measures "could set back wildlife conservation efforts," said California Sen. Barbara Boxer, the Democratic chairwoman of the Senate Environment and Public Works Committee, while acknowledging she supported other provisions in the bill. Boxer was the only Democrat to vote against moving the bill forward Monday.

    Ammunition and tackle that contain lead are now unregulated under federal toxic substance laws, and the EPA has so far declined to regulate them. The bill would make it law that the Environmental Protection Agency could not regulate ammunition and tackle, leaving those decisions to states. Environmental groups opposing the exemption say that birds on land and water are killed by lead poisoning after eating the spent ammunition and fishing tackle.

    The polar bear provision would allow the hunters — two from Tester's home state of Montana — who killed polar bears in Canada just before a 2008 ban on polar bear trophy imports took effect — to bring the bears' bodies across the border. The hunters involved were not able to bring the trophies home before the Fish and Wildlife Service listed them as a threatened species.

    Some animal welfare groups, including of The Humane Society of the United States, say that allowing the polar bears bodies across the border could set a bad precedent and embolden other hunters to try and circumvent threatened or endangered species laws.

    http://news.msn.com/politics/gop-blocks-bill-to-give-hunters-more-land-access
    "It is what it is":usa:
  • robert38-55robert38-55 Senior Member Posts: 3,621 Senior Member
    Ammunition and tackle that contain lead are now unregulated under federal toxic substance laws, and the EPA has so far declined to regulate them.

    Either I don't understand the bill, or someone is lying!!!!!!!!!! I don't agree with this statement that is written in my original post. As far as I know, wasn't lead shot limited years ago to certain areas of hunting in the USA? May I get some clarification on this? Thanks.
    "It is what it is":usa:
  • BufordBuford Senior Member Posts: 6,664 Senior Member
    Either I don't understand the bill, or someone is lying!!!!!!!!!

    Imagine that.
    Just look at the flowers Lizzie, just look at the flowers.
  • alphasigmookiealphasigmookie Senior Member Posts: 8,788 Senior Member
    Meant GOA, gun owners of America. The proceedural vote is a nicer way of saying they filibustered the bill, but they don't like to say that anymore because the Senate now works on a default filibuster where every bill needs 60 votes to get to a floor for a vote.
    "Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
    -DoctorWho
  • alphasigmookiealphasigmookie Senior Member Posts: 8,788 Senior Member
    Ammunition and tackle that contain lead are now unregulated under federal toxic substance laws, and the EPA has so far declined to regulate them.

    Either I don't understand the bill, or someone is lying!!!!!!!!!! I don't agree with this statement that is written in my original post. As far as I know, wasn't lead shot limited years ago to certain areas of hunting in the USA? May I get some clarification on this? Thanks.

    I think states can still regulate, but this is saying the feds can't. Btw, at least glance at the forum titles before posting...already another thread on the same subject.
    "Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
    -DoctorWho
  • Ranch13Ranch13 Senior Member Posts: 820 Senior Member
    The feds have ruled that you can't use lead shot for waterfowl, in the US period, and for upland and small game in some places for nearly 30 years now. And in parts of California you can't use lead in ammunition because of the condors....
    This is pretty typical deal, a bunch of new spending buried in a bill, senate rules wont' allow for ammendments to remove the spending, so the bill fails and the standard blame the repulican minority games start.
    And it'll work because as we're seeing so called "concerned sportsmen" think they got the shaft about hunting, but aren't abit concerned about the excess government spending they were belly achin about just a couple month ago....
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    Isn't it more likely that a bunch of prehistoric buzzards are endangered because they ran out of wooly mammoth carcasses to eat, rather than the possibility they might ingest a naturally-occuring element like lead from a gut pile occasionally?

    The average congress-critter's constituents are too stupid to actually research the legislation their rep is voting on, so those shenanigans get pulled all the time!
    Jerry
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • Ranch13Ranch13 Senior Member Posts: 820 Senior Member
    "Looks like the whole bill would cost $14M/yr...not much, but raise the price of duck stamps Looks like the whole bill would cost $14M/yr...not much, but raise the price of duck stamps (not exactly sure what those are) to pay for wetlands conservation efforts to pay for wetlands conservation efforts"
    How could you possibly not know what a duck stamp is? They've only been around and required by all waterfowl hunts nationwide for about 50 years?
  • Ranch13Ranch13 Senior Member Posts: 820 Senior Member
    Don't think it's because they're to stupid (for the most part anyway) but they are human and they only look at the part that looked to have the most goody in it.
    Typical tactic from the left and the state controlled media, just throw out some blame, don't dare let the whole story out, just enough to demonize their opponents...
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,195 Senior Member
    Ranch13 wrote: »
    How could you possibly not know what a duck stamp is? They've only been around and required by all waterfowl hunts nationwide for about 50 years?
    I don't think alpha hunts.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    He hunts for liberal talking points to stir the pot with all the time, but that doesn't require a license or a tax stamp- - - -just a computer!
    Jerry
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • Ranch13Ranch13 Senior Member Posts: 820 Senior Member
    I don't think alpha hunts.

    That's getting fairly obvious, didn't know about the lead shot ban that's been in place for several decades, and didn't know what duck stamp is....
    But concerned about a blocked bill that had maybe something to do with hunting..... hmmmmm
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 4,842 Senior Member
    Teach wrote: »
    He hunts for liberal talking points to stir the pot with all the time, but that doesn't require a license or a tax stamp- - - -just a computer!
    Jerry

    It won't be long before we will need some type of permit to discuss politics. Look at all the other "rights" that require gov't permission.
    The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me.

    Ayn Rand
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 19,018 Senior Member
    Your link needs to get their Sessions straight.
    PETE Sessions is a Republican Representative from from Tx. JEFF Sessions is a Republican Senator from Alabama
    http://votesmart.org/candidate/288/pete-sessions#.ULURG_WwVHg
    http://votesmart.org/candidate/key-votes/443/jeff-sessions-iii#.ULURr_WwVHg
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • snake284-1snake284-1 Senior Member Posts: 2,500 Senior Member
    Teach wrote: »
    Isn't it more likely that a bunch of prehistoric buzzards are endangered because they ran out of wooly mammoth carcasses to eat, rather than the possibility they might ingest a naturally-occuring element like lead from a gut pile occasionally?

    The average congress-critter's constituents are too stupid to actually research the legislation their rep is voting on, so those shenanigans get pulled all the time!
    Jerry

    Exactly, and that's the very reason who is in the Whitehouse got there and got to stay four more years. But I'm an idiot McCarthyite here hunting and blaming liberals. I'm just a right wing nutt job. SO what can I say?
    I'm Just a Radical Right Wing Nutt Job, Trying to Help Save My Country!
  • alphasigmookiealphasigmookie Senior Member Posts: 8,788 Senior Member
    Ranch13 wrote: »
    "Looks like the whole bill would cost $14M/yr...not much, but raise the price of duck stamps Looks like the whole bill would cost $14M/yr...not much, but raise the price of duck stamps (not exactly sure what those are) to pay for wetlands conservation efforts to pay for wetlands conservation efforts"
    How could you possibly not know what a duck stamp is? They've only been around and required by all waterfowl hunts nationwide for about 50 years?

    Yep don't hunt unless it's paper or steel. That said, the money from the stamps go to help preserve and restore wetlands. Seems logical that those who benefit from their being preserved and restored wetlands and well managed wildlife populations should be the ones that help pay for it.
    "Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
    -DoctorWho
  • Ranch13Ranch13 Senior Member Posts: 820 Senior Member
    You don't even have to hunt to be able to buy a duck stamp...
  • Make_My_DayMake_My_Day Senior Member Posts: 7,195 Senior Member
    snake284-1 wrote: »
    Exactly, and that's the very reason who is in the Whitehouse got there and got to stay four more years. But I'm an idiot McCarthyite here hunting and blaming liberals. I'm just a right wing nutt job. SO what can I say?
    Senator Joe McCarthy was a very wise man. He knew all too well of the Communist conspiracy that was going on in this country. Unfortunately, the left managed to successfully demonize him to a point of losing credibility. Pretty much what they are still doing today.
    JOE MCCARTHY WAS RIGHT:
    THE DEMOCRATS ARE THE NEW COMMUNISTS!
  • robert38-55robert38-55 Senior Member Posts: 3,621 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Merged threads on the same topic. Carry on.

    Thanks Wambli Ska, second time I did this in the 13yrs I have been posting here.

    alphasigmookie wrote:
    Btw, at least glance at the forum titles before posting...already another thread on the same subject.

    Most of the time I do, no disrespect intended to you alpha. I will perform my "Due Dilligence" with greater efficiency in the future. Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    "It is what it is":usa:
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    "Tailgunner Joe" McCarthy was a lying weasel politician who tried to use his military service as a stepping stone to increased political power. He was a judge who was draft-exempt during WW II, but chose to accept a commission as a lieutenant with the Marines, then later claimed he enlisted as a "buck private" and made his way up through the ranks. He flew a few missions as a gunner so he could embellish his record when he ran for higher office after the war. His record sort of reminds me of John Kerry- - - -manipulate a short military hitch into a bunch of BS, and then parlay that experience for political gain. McCarthy got caught up in his communist-search scenario and started believing his own line of bull.
    Jerry
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,195 Senior Member
    Wow, I just read about Sen. McCarthy's war record. He got a Purple Heart for injuries incurred during **** Day....
    Overkill is underrated.
  • stepmacstepmac Member Posts: 172 Member
    Wow, I just read about Sen. McCarthy's war record. He got a Purple Heart for injuries incurred during **** Day....

    LBJ got the Silver Star for riding in a B-17 on a maintance hop.
  • stepmacstepmac Member Posts: 172 Member
    Wow, I just read about Sen. McCarthy's war record. He got a Purple Heart for injuries incurred during **** Day....

    Actually 'ol Tail Gunner Joe" was an interesting bloke. Read Ann Coulter's book Treason. It is her best IMHO and describes the man and what he believed well.
  • stepmacstepmac Member Posts: 172 Member
    Concerning hunting bills and lead vs steel shot...can someone tell me if what we hear about the use of steel shot saving ducks from dieing from lead poisoning is actually true? We know it is supposed to be, but is it? If so how would we know if we are saving ducks by shooting steel? Are there that many more ducks fluttering around that there were pre-1984 (I think that was when the steel shot requirement was passed.) Or are the invironmentalists just toying with us? I guess I'm just supposed to trust them. Trust THEM? El fatto el chanceo.

    Now, if I decide to go duck hunting I've got to pay through the ying yang for a box of shells and they don't work as well as lead did. We wound more birds. That's not nice is it. Nor can we shoot our old Fox guns, or Lefevers or Parkers.

    What gives with all of this steel shoot hellaballoo anyway?
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 15,212 Senior Member
    It's not about the lead shot that hits a duck, it's (theoretically)about the lead shot they ingest when feeding in heavily shot over wetlands, where over the years, tons of lead shot have fallen in the water. If you're still using steel shot, you're way behind the times....there are several non-toxic alternatives that nearly duplicate the performance of lead and are safe to use in your older doubles.
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • Ranch13Ranch13 Senior Member Posts: 820 Senior Member
    I don't think there's one bit of serious evidence banning lead shot accomplished anything. The US is the only place that did it.
    I found that while bismuth cost more per round than steel I actually used less because it didn't take 3 hits to get a fast moving northern mallard to roll over.. If ya got a gun that can use it Hevishot is about as good as the old lead magnum loads.
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