.45 in a .44

ArmoArmo MemberPosts: 38 Member
hopefully someone knows:
I have a Richland Arms .44 blackpowder Navy pistol, I purchased from Midway a .45 conversion cylinder that is supposed to fit, but need to know if I can safely fire a .45 Long Colt Cowboy round in the .44 pistol?
Will this increase the pressure?
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Replies

  • Big Al1Big Al1 Senior Member Posts: 7,246 Senior Member
    :popcorn:This should be good!!
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    Only fire .45 Shorts...............:jester:
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • ArmoArmo Member Posts: 38 Member
    uh, by good do you mean I'm good to go, or good as in EXPLOSION !
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    Don't try it until you know it will be safe. A .45 Colt has a nominal bullet diameter of .451/.452 and higher for some guns. Your .44 BP revolver fires what diameter of a soft lead ball that is shaving a ring of lead as you seat the bullet. .44 caliber diameter is .429/.430 for modern centerfire revolvers.

    Plenty of BP shooters on here will give you sound advice.

    BTW, it's been almost 30 years since I owned a .44 BP revolver and I forgot what diameter lead balls I used.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    This is a pretty common conversion. The ".44" cap & ball revolvers have a bore size that's almost .45, not the .429" bore of centerfire revolvers. Just be sure to use only low-pressure "cowboy loads", not full-house .45 Colt ammo. Definitely DO NOT use any hot .45 Colt handloads labeled for "Ruger only" revolvers in the reloading manuals. .45 Colt loads come in 3 distinct categries, "Peacemaker" loads for original Colt revolvers, "Midrange" loads for revolvers such as Smith & Wesson, Rossi, modern Colt double actions, etc., and "Geewhiz" loads intended only for Ruger revolvers and other very heavy-duty wheelguns. The C&B conversion cylinders need to use only the low-pressure loads.
    Jerry
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • ArmoArmo Member Posts: 38 Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Yep, Teach speaks the truth. Years ago I got two boxes with 1,000 cold swaged 230 gr soft lead bullets meant for .45 ACP and I loaded them in .45 Colt brass with a few grains of Unique for a softball load that was a hoot to shoot and very accurate. We tried it in my buddys conversion and it worked like a champ!!!

    Now we're talkin! the only "Cowboy" rounds I could find are 250 grain soft lead Cowboy, but these are all expensive, $30 for a box of 50
  • mkk41mkk41 Banned Posts: 1,932 Senior Member
    I wouldn't use it with any brass framed guns.
    "There are no victims , only volunteers!"
  • ArmoArmo Member Posts: 38 Member
    mkk41 wrote: »
    I wouldn't use it with any brass framed guns.

    this is a steel frame with brass backstrap, the .44 ball is .451 diameter.
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 24,053 Senior Member
    Good luck with it and 28-30 dollars is what it goes for.
    I like Magtec because it does not do much leading.
    A Veteran is someone that served in the Military, it does not matter where they served.
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    Armo wrote: »
    the only "Cowboy" rounds I could find are 250 grain soft lead Cowboy, but these are all expensive, $30 for a box of 50

    Midway has a pretty good selection, with somewhat better prices, but .45 Colt is pricey. Good reason to reload for that one!

    http://www.midwayusa.com/product/412949/fiocchi-cowboy-action-ammunition-45-colt-long-colt-250-grain-lead-round-nose-flat-point-box-of-50

    http://www.midwayusa.com/product/2900342954/winchester-super-x-ammunition-45-colt-long-colt-255-grain-lead-round-nose

    Jerry
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,383 Senior Member
    mkk41 wrote: »
    I wouldn't use it with any brass framed guns.
    I believe the manufacturer says not to do so. Or at least some makers of conversion cylinders say not to do it.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • RazorbackerRazorbacker Senior Member Posts: 4,646 Senior Member
    Armo wrote: »
    Now we're talkin! the only "Cowboy" rounds I could find are 250 grain soft lead Cowboy, but these are all expensive, $30 for a box of 50

    Welcome to the new normal. With only a few exceptions store bought ammo is 'spensive. Even reloading the components are pricey. FYI, Obama voters don't get to complain about gun/ammo prices.
    Teach your children to love guns, they'll never be able to afford drugs
  • ilove22silove22s Senior Member Posts: 1,122 Senior Member
    welcome,

    dont know about your Richardson Arms, but some of the other BP clones you can do that. unless you know of the true bore diameter, i wouldnt do it. there are methods to measure your bore dia. too.
    The ears never lie.

    - Don Burt
  • mkk41mkk41 Banned Posts: 1,932 Senior Member
    Actually , the Colt and Remington revolvers were called .44 bore , because that is the actual bore diameter of the barrel. That is the size of the holes minor diameter. Then ya got the groove diameter to the bottom of the rifling , about .005 deep per side , .010 total. So ya got .440 bore + .010 rifling to give ya a .45 caliber. Most use a .451-.454 roundball.

    Ruger always refered to their Old Army percussion revolver as a .45 caliber as it uses the same barrel as their .45 Colt Blackhawk and .457 roundballs.
    "There are no victims , only volunteers!"
  • Big Al1Big Al1 Senior Member Posts: 7,246 Senior Member
    I'm sorry, but there is now way I would invest $250 in, at best, a $150 import pistol from an unkown country, from a company that went out of business over 30 years ago, and then complain about the price of ammo!! From all I could find about that model, it is a brass frame. But, on the plus side, Midway is will accept unaltered returns!! Save your money and but a pistol built for .45 COLT!! But that's just me!!
  • mkk41mkk41 Banned Posts: 1,932 Senior Member
    My first percussion revolver , bought shortly after the first time I saw the movie Outlaw Josey Wales , was a brass framed version of a Remington 1858. I actually distorted the frame trying to ram a ball on top of too much powder.
    "There are no victims , only volunteers!"
  • ArmoArmo Member Posts: 38 Member
    this happens to be a very fine example of Italian reproduction of the Colt Navy .44 , I am looking forward to shooting Cowboy bullets and not have to clean the gun from blackpowder fouling. the .44 balls are .451 diameter .
    And I did NOT vote for B.O.
  • mkk41mkk41 Banned Posts: 1,932 Senior Member
    Armo wrote: »
    this happens to be a very fine example of Italian reproduction of the Colt Navy .44 , I am looking forward to shooting Cowboy bullets and not have to clean the gun from blackpowder fouling. the .44 balls are .451 diameter .
    And I did NOT vote for B.O.

    There was no Colt Navy in .44. The Colt Navy models of 1851 and 1861 were .36. The 1860 Army model was a .44.

    There are many reproductions of blackpowder revolvers that never existed. Some of these are just conglomerations of various features.

    The best replicas always have been made by A. Uberti , which is now owned by Beretta. Even the ones sold by Colt used Uberti parts.

    Pietta's are OK.
    "There are no victims , only volunteers!"
  • ArmoArmo Member Posts: 38 Member
    yes, I stand corrected, looking at this piece again, Model 1860 ARMY .44 cal by Richland Arms, Italian.
    Cylinder is engraved with a Navy battle "Engaged 16 May 1843 " , also Patent N
    proof stamping PN
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    After a considerable amount of research, I haven't been able to find a Richardson revolver that's NOT brass-framed. If yours is brass around the trigger guard, hammer, cylinder mount, etc, DO NOT use that conversion cylinder. The open-top Colts were not as strong as the Remington revolvers, even in the iron-framed models, and a brass-frame open top would definitely be overloaded firing any type of .45 Colt ammo. The first-generation Colt cartridge guns were open-top designs, and they didn't last long at all before being replaced by the 1873 model.
    Jerry
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • ArmoArmo Member Posts: 38 Member
    thank you, this is a Richland arms, not Richardson, it is an open top, but a steel frame with brass trigger guard , walnut grips with brass back strap, but it is steel frame.
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    OK, just concerned that you might be headed for some problems. The open-top Colts don't quite have as much strength in the barrel/cylinder area as the Remington style guns with the top strap, and even the brass-framed Remingtons aren't supposed to be used with cartridge conversions!
    Jerry
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • mkk41mkk41 Banned Posts: 1,932 Senior Member
    Info I'm finding say Richland went out of biz back in the late 80's.
    "There are no victims , only volunteers!"
  • Big Al1Big Al1 Senior Member Posts: 7,246 Senior Member
    This is probably a waste of time, but, I could not find a Colt .44 replica by Richland arms, but there are several Remington .44s.
    Does it look like this??44%20cal%201.jpg_thumbnail1.jpg
    This model was made in both steel and brass.
  • ArmoArmo Member Posts: 38 Member
    this one has a round barrel, and the frame and hammer is case hardened as well as the ejector.
    Four screws on the side , walnut grips, looks very well made and shoots accuratly, works quite well.
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    Be safe and have fun, no guarantees from anyone on here.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • mkk41mkk41 Banned Posts: 1,932 Senior Member
    Armo , You may find this interesting. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colt_Army_Model_1860
    "There are no victims , only volunteers!"
  • ArmoArmo Member Posts: 38 Member
    mkk41 wrote: »
    Armo , You may find this interesting. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colt_Army_Model_1860
    yes, good write up, I also have a Sharps Carbine made in Italy, .54 cal lever/breech loaded carbine, I can roll my own, or just pour the bullet and powder directly into the breech, top it off with a large musket cap. Also fires .44 cal sabots.
  • mkk41mkk41 Banned Posts: 1,932 Senior Member
    Yeah , I smoke on occasion too.

    20120812_21.jpg
    20120812_06.jpg
    "There are no victims , only volunteers!"
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