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The Secret Service thinks it's Congress!

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  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,395 Senior Member
    I have no doubt in my mind that these shenanigans have been going on for a long, long time. It just happened that this particular group acted like a bunch of drunken frat boys on spring break, and made a scene, and it blew up in their faces. They must have failed the "keep a low profile" class.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,493 Senior Member
    I have a hard time holding the Secret Service to a higher standard than the people they're to protect, since that means you're holding the Secret Service to a higher standard than their supervisors.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,395 Senior Member
    Gotta disagree with you on that one, Earl. Duty, Honor, Country aren't just words. The SS should uphold those values no matter who is under their protection. No different than being in the military and having a donkey hole for a CO. You still live the core values even if the CO is the ultimate jerk or a Bozo the clown. Just because the leader is a stone cold waste of protoplasm doesn't mean I have to emulate him. :tooth:
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,493 Senior Member
    I think you mistook what I said. If we're going to hold the Secret Service to those standards, we need to hold the politicians to the same standards. Otherwise you've got higher standards for the braves than you do for the chiefs. And while that may be a fact of life, that ain't right. Leadership comes from the top down, not the bottom up.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,395 Senior Member
    If the leader is a jerk, you 'endeavor to persevere'; the leaders are temporary and at times do a lot of that "do as I say; not as I do". "Rank has its privileges" comes to mind. Our leaders, being high profile, tend to get more scrutiny than the rank and file, and anything they do is more noticeable. And since some of them have the morals of alley cats, and the discretion of a stripper, they tend to be noticed.

    Politicians and lawyers came on the scene after prostitutes in history, and tend to exhibit some of the same general characteristics. This is unfair to the prostitutes as it lumps them in with some unsavory characters. Politicians have few, if any, discernible standards other than graft, a lust for more power, and reelection.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    Airedale wrote: »
    Excuse me, but weren't those agents had been in the employ of our government for past administrations?
    Come on guys.
    Blame the individuals.
    You're so blinded by politics that you can't see the obvious.
    Were any of you deployed overseas? Did y'all do less than honorable things that you wouldn't talk about to your wives?
    Should we blame our President for that??
    We all live in glass houses.
    Hypocracy exemplified.

    I have never done any of those things, just the possibility of catching a horrible incurable STD, is enough to stop Me, I have enough minor health issues, I do not need to actively seek worse.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,493 Senior Member
    Yeah, we're saying the same thing, just in a different way.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 24,711 Senior Member
    Airedale wrote: »
    1.Were any of you deployed overseas?
    2. Did y'all do less than honorable things that you wouldn't talk about to your wives?
    QUOTE]

    1.Yes
    2.No
    Shut up-----KAREN; OK Cynthia
  • JerryBobCoJerryBobCo Senior Member Posts: 7,934 Senior Member
    Maybe, although I think part of it is that the Republicans are really good at being the opposition party and screaming and yelling and making a big deal of every little thing the democrats do wrong. The democrats try, but they're just not as good at both covering things up or making a stink about it when things do go wrong. Darrell Issa is an investigative pittbull and is not to be screwed with which can actually be a good thing, but where were people like him under the Bush administration? Does anyone honestly think government waste is a new issue?

    Anyway, at least this and the GSA thing were happening well down the chain of command. In the end it's ultimately congress's fault for allocating the money in the budget in the first place. Having first hand experience dealing with government bureaucracy, agencies are designed to seek as much money as they can get and spend it all (if they don't spend it all congress assumes they don't need it so they cut their budget). The people inside the agencies are lifetime bureaucrats who's incentives are to grow their programs as large as possible and spend as much money as they can get congress to give them regardless of if their existence is even useful at all.

    Translation: It's Bush's fault!
    Jerry

    Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
  • JerryBobCoJerryBobCo Senior Member Posts: 7,934 Senior Member
    No the translation is that it's systematic to the government bureaucracy and completely independent of administration.

    Just keep telling yourself that, Alpha. While you're at it, ask yourself if there's ANYTHING that's gone wrong under Obama's administration that he has taken credit for?
    Jerry

    Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 16,916 Senior Member
    Airedale wrote: »
    Were any of you deployed overseas? Did y'all do less than honorable things that you wouldn't talk about to your wives?

    Are you kidding? Soldiers and "Soiled Doves" have been an item since....lemme see...since there have been soldiers and camp followers...

    So yeah.....As a hormone overloaded 19 year old kid living in a country where the "girls" were checked weekly by U.S. military docs? Hmmmmmm....Yep! EVERY CHANCE I GOT! judging from the amount of money these girls were raking in, I wasn't alone.

    While the military didn't condone availing ones self of the services of a prostitute...they DID do all they could to make the activity as safe as possible...

    Interesting thing, when bad decisions were made: Enlisted men caught the clap, Officers got "Non-specific Urethritis"
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    Jayhawker wrote: »
    Are you kidding? Soldiers and "Soiled Doves" have been an item since....lemme see...since there have been soldiers and camp followers...

    So yeah.....As a hormone overloaded 19 year old kid living in a country where the "girls" were checked weekly by U.S. military docs? Hmmmmmm....Yep! EVERY CHANCE I GOT! judging from the amount of money these girls were raking in, I wasn't alone.

    While the military didn't condone availing ones self of the services of a prostitute...they DID do all they could to make the activity as safe as possible...

    Interesting thing, when bad decisions were made: Enlisted men caught the clap, Officers got "Non-specific Urethritis"

    And the really smart guys kept it in their pants and never caught anything !!!!
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 16,916 Senior Member
    DoctorWho wrote: »
    And the really smart guys kept it in their pants and never caught anything !!!!

    In all honesty Doc...I believe those guys were probably in the minority, at least during the years I was in the military and overseas...
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    Jayhawker wrote: »
    In all honesty Doc...I believe those guys were probably in the minority

    We had other names for 'em.
    Jerry
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,394 Senior Member
    Big Chief wrote: »
    Soliders aren't allowed d to visit houses of "Ill Repute" in places like Korea (Everywhere) anymore and probably not federal employees. Some new regs under "Human Trafficking" are on the books. I don't know what is on the books these days and what UCMJ says.

    Here from the article below:

    The act goes hand in hand with Executive Order 13387 signed by the President Oct. 14 2005. Among other changes to the law, the order expands the Uniform Code of Military Justice to specifically criminalize patronizing a prostitute. Patronizing a prostitute is punishable by a Dishonorable Discharge, confinement for 1 year, reduction in grade to E-1 and forfeiture of all pay and allowances.


    So a GI can't legally visit the Cat Houses in Germany anymore??????? Even though it is a legal activity?


    OK from the Air Force Europe:

    http://www.usafe.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123017180

    President signs law against human trafficking

    Posted 2/10/2006 Updated 3/13/2006 Email story Print story

    Share

    2/10/2006 - RAMSTEIN AIR BASE, Germany (USAFENS) -- On Jan. 10, The President of the United States signed into law the Trafficking Victims Protection Reauthorization Act of 2005. This is the latest effort in the U.S. Government’s “Zero Tolerance” policy toward human trafficking. Any employee of the Federal Government faces fines, mandatory restitution, and up to 20 years imprisonment for knowingly taking part in, patronizing, or simply tolerating trafficking networks.

    “Human trafficking is an offense against human dignity, a crime in which human beings, many of them teenagers and young children, are bought and sold and often sexually abused by violent criminals,” President George Bush said at the White House before signing the bill. “Our nation is determined to fight and end this modern form of slavery.”

    Human trafficking is the illegal practice of procuring human beings for unpaid work in physically abusive settings and locations from which they are not allowed to leave. Trafficking in persons is the third largest criminal activity in the world, after illegal arms and drugs sales.




    Trafficking Victims Prevention Reauthorization Act (TVPRA) 2005

    Public Law 109-164, enacted January 10, 2006, provides U.S. courts jurisdiction over federal government employees and contractors for trafficking offenses committed abroad. It has enhanced specified U.S. efforts to combat trafficking in persons, including the prevention of such activities by international peacekeepers. This law requires the Attorney General to study and report to Congress on the prevalence of severe forms of trafficking and sex trafficking in the U.S., and the approach to combat these crimes by law enforcement. A grant program has been established for states and local law enforcement, totaling $50 million in 2006 and 2007 to investigate and prosecute acts of trafficking in persons and criminals who purchase commercial sex acts within the United States. This law is also directed at the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) to investigate acts of: (1) severe forms of trafficking in persons other than domestic trafficking in persons; and (2) domestic trafficking in persons
    William Wilberforce Trafficking Victims Protection Reauthorization Act of 2008

    The William Wilberforce Trafficking Victims Protection Reauthorization Act of 2008 (H.R. 7311), passed both the House and the Senate on December 10, 2008. The President signed it into law on December 23, 2008, P.L. 110-457, 122 Stat. 5044 (2008). The Act enhances federal efforts to combat both international and domestic traffic in human beings. The bill directs the President to create a system to monitor anti-trafficking efforts and programs at the federal level. There are a number of important expansions to the criminal provisions included in the Act. For example, prosecutors no longer have to prove that a defendant knew the victim was a minor; they just need to show that a defendant had a "reasonable opportunity to observe" the victim. In addition, the standard of proof is lowered to "reckless disregard" for traffickers or defendants who come into contact with victims forced to engage in commercial sex acts. Additional provisions are made to provide assistance for domestic trafficking victims. The Act requires the Department of Justice to create a new model law that based in part on D.C. Criminal Code �22-2701 et seq. making all acts of pimping and pandering per se crimes, even without proof of force, fraud or coercion or a victim's minor age.

    There are a number of new provisions in the Act specific to data collection and reporting. The Act orders the Federal Bureau of Investigation to break down the categories of prostitution and commercialized vice arrests in the Uniform Crime Reports (UCR) to show how many prostitutes, johns and pimps or traffickers were arrested. Additionally, a new category of "Human Trafficking" will appear in the serious crimes category of the UCR. The Act also requires several new studies from the Department of Justice about the enforcement of laws related to human trafficking.

    So now banging a prostitute is off limits. What if the prostitute works for herself and is not a sex slave. What if this is her means of support? This is a real no brainer. They act as if all prostitutes are slaves!!! This is just stupid.

    Prostitution doesn't necessarily have anything to do with human trafficking. This sounds like a bunch of Women's rights BS to me meddling in other countries.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    Sad thing is, these crazy days they probably would rather have same sex GIs dating each other for "Companionship" when off duty:yikes: That's now called showing "Tolerance" for "Diversity".
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    They do not like "fraternization" between unmarried soldiers either.
    Even if it is a male & a female.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
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