Home Main Category Personal Defense

Police brutality, what would you do?

2»

Replies

  • mythaeusmythaeus Senior Member Posts: 831 Senior Member
    I appreciate the thoughts and discussions fellas. A few more thoughts here...

    The link to the video in the OP has additional details about the story. The homeless guy supposedly was seen looking into parked cars and playing with door handles. I cannot imagine any scenario though, for any LEO in any circumstance to say those words that were recorded in the video...at least "authorized" to say or do. I'm the type who put my feet into everyone's shoes and assess first, always, but this whole thing escaped me.

    I wonder if police brutality has always happened in the past at rough the same rate, but were covered up more easily or contained in the local media. We now hear and SEE more because of cameras are everywhere and information spread at the speed of the Internet and social media. Someone I had a discussion with said something to the effect that people who work and see violence day in and day out is prone to become violent themselves and LEOs are no exception. I don't have any study to back that up and would imagine it's difficult to do such studies; however, I'm inclined to think that it is the case (of course, not applicable to every LEO out there).

    The more I think about the situation, the more I think about the advice "don't shoot unless you're willing to go to jail or go bankrupted for it". I guess if there's a high possibility of your being beaten to death or your loved one to be the same, then it at least worth that advice...or possibly your life. I just hope cameras are everywhere should that ever happen. And to your point, cpj, Eli, and Buford, I'd find it VERY hard to believe I would simply stand, watch, and be a good witness either.

    Al
    "In a controversy, the instant we feel anger we have already ceased striving for the truth and have begun striving for ourselves." - Siddhartha Gautama
  • Make_My_DayMake_My_Day Senior Member Posts: 7,910 Senior Member
    Buford wrote: »
    In Los Angeles you are lucky if you just get beaten, they just might shoot you. LAPDs finest had to shoot dead a 100lb homeless woman brandishing a screw driver.
    I'm inclined to think that training in today's police academy's includes "deadly response" to brandishing ANY kind of weapon, even if it's only a toothpick. A screwdriver or BBQ fork can cause serious physical injury or death...not something the cops are going to take a chance with.
    JOE MCCARTHY WAS RIGHT:
    THE DEMOCRATS ARE THE NEW COMMUNISTS!
  • mythaeusmythaeus Senior Member Posts: 831 Senior Member
    I'm inclined to think that training in today's police academy's includes "deadly response" to brandishing ANY kind of weapon, even if it's only a toothpick. A screwdriver or BBQ fork can cause serious physical injury or death...not something the cops are going to take a chance with.

    Even disparity of force, when someone is much bigger or a group is potentially more deadly even if unarmed, can be a justification for use of deadly force. I do wish though that it's universally applicable rather than just to the police only. It seems that the police gets away with shooting someone with a screwdriver or a BBQ fork while we license holders will likely have to spend tens of thousands of dollars in court defending ourselves.

    Al
    "In a controversy, the instant we feel anger we have already ceased striving for the truth and have begun striving for ourselves." - Siddhartha Gautama
  • bobbyrlf3bobbyrlf3 Senior Member Posts: 2,587 Senior Member
    DoctorWho wrote: »
    Emotionally disturbed people do not always act rationally, but they are not always dangerous either, training and experience are important in dealing with anyone, many LEOs are not prepared to deal with people and diverse situations you may find them at their best or worst, and a LEO needs to know how to deal with these situations or find another line of work.

    I think training like this and accountability for poor decisions/possibly criminal behavior would be the best way to prevent incidents like what we're discussing.
    Knowledge is essential to living freely and fully; understanding gives knowledge purpose and strength; wisdom is combining the two and applying them appropriately in words and actions.
  • jbp-ohiojbp-ohio Senior Member Posts: 10,663 Senior Member
    Well, everyone is going to hate me for this.....

    All of my family members would just lie on the ground if a LEO instructed them to.... Never seen one of these 'police brutality' cases yet where the person getting nightsticked just laid down when they were told to. Like it or not, you do have to obey their commands. Even if they are being Jackwagons about it.

    Stompin' the guys head is criminal, but using the taser isn't. LEO's aren't MMA fighters and you can't expect them to get into wrestling matches with people who disobey their commands. I support the use of non-lethal force to people who try to get physical with police.

    If you were the officer who showed up first, how do you know they are mentally ill, or just stung out on crank??? They are dangerous either way.... Only thing you can do is get them on the ground and restrained as fast as possible. They had enough police there to do this without beating the guy IMO. Although the guy wasn't cooperating, he wasn't swinging back either.
    "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson
  • Make_My_DayMake_My_Day Senior Member Posts: 7,910 Senior Member
    mythaeus wrote: »
    Even disparity of force, when someone is much bigger or a group is potentially more deadly even if unarmed, can be a justification for use of deadly force. I do wish though that it's universally applicable rather than just to the police only. It seems that the police gets away with shooting someone with a screwdriver or a BBQ fork while we license holders will likely have to spend tens of thousands of dollars in court defending ourselves.Al
    Not necessarily. In Florida if you are a holder of a CWP, you are justified in using deadly force if you feel threatened with imminent serious physical injury or death. The ONLY reason George Zimmerman has been going through what he has, is because of the backlash from the black community and the associated activists we all know and love.
    JOE MCCARTHY WAS RIGHT:
    THE DEMOCRATS ARE THE NEW COMMUNISTS!
  • JayJay Senior Member Posts: 4,349 Senior Member
    bobbyrlf3 wrote: »
    I think training like this and accountability for poor decisions/possibly criminal behavior would be the best way to prevent incidents like what we're discussing.

    It's a big issue in the LE world in general right now. Disability rights groups are pushing it and are using the courts to get LE into more training for dealing with mentally ill people as well as crisis intervention. Not bad thing at all. In most places, resources for mentally ill people and LE to assist mentally ill people aren't there. The cost is too high and usually ends up on the tax payers. No place a police officer can take a mentally ill person in crisis for treatment. A lot of hospitals aren't equipped to assist or can't treat against the mentally ill person's will. So the mentally ill end up back on the streets. Officers often don't have a lot of options for dealing with them, so they might find a way to arrest them as a means of getting them off the streets. Jails in a lot of places have been forced to become mental health treatment facilities and are not equipped and ususally do not have the budget to deal with this. It's not right and it does not mean cops can go out and beat the crap out of people. That is wrong. Use of force should escalate according to the threat percieved by a reasonable officer. Once compliance starts, escalation of force stops. If the officer is not reasonable and/or the use of force continues to escalate past compliance, there is a problem. Both of those elements are present in the video posted. The officers actions did not appear reasonable, they shock the conscience, and the force was escalated disproprotionately to the threat and escalated beyond compliance. That's my view, anyway.

    This kind of stuff is not new. It is more popular in the media now due to the presence of technology. Any place there’s a cell phone, there’s a good chance there’s a camera. Unfortunately, there are many more times that officers use force properly, from simple handcuffing to the unfortunate but properly used deadly force. There are also many, many more times cops avoid the use of force by using their heads. This just doesn’t make good news headlines. Even when cops use deadly force and were perfectly justified to do so, the incident is dramatized by the media.

    The courts have held that use of less leathal force is not required prior to the use of deadly force where the threat of death or great bodily injury is present. That doesn't mean cops don't use less lethal force all day, every day and do prevent deadly force incidents. Unfortunately, less lethal force is also abused by officers regularly as well.

    Use of less lethal force should, whenever possible, be used along with lethal force backup.
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    "It's a big issue in the LE world in general right now. Disability rights groups are pushing it and are using the courts to get LE into more training for dealing with mentally ill people as well as crisis intervention. Not bad thing at all. In most places, resources for mentally ill people and LE to assist mentally ill people aren't there. The cost is too high and usually ends up on the tax payers. No place a police officer can take a mentally ill person in crisis for treatment. A lot of hospitals aren't equipped to assist or can't treat against the mentally ill person's will.

    You raise two good points, NYS has State run mental health facilities, very good ones, training is very important, I think also is needed dedicated units to deal with EDPs, as rank and file personnel will not be able to assess an EPD properly, I remember seeing a traffic stop, the driver seemed combative, but also a bit off too, I pulled up in an umarked unit with the strobes on and asked if the Officer needed assistance, at first I thought the driver was drunk, then I saw a Medic alert bracelet = Diabetic..... a sip of orange juice and the guy came to his senses......

    Many times tragedy can be prevented by wisdom.......

    "Use of less lethal force should, whenever possible, be used along with lethal force backup."

    Communication is a powerful aid too, I have talked down countless EDPs without any force whatsoever, Compassion and the offer of a hot meal and medical care / and rest has worked wonders.......
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • mythaeusmythaeus Senior Member Posts: 831 Senior Member
    jbp-ohio wrote: »
    Well, everyone is going to hate me for this.....

    All of my family members would just lie on the ground if a LEO instructed them to.... Never seen one of these 'police brutality' cases yet where the person getting nightsticked just laid down when they were told to. Like it or not, you do have to obey their commands. Even if they are being Jackwagons about it.

    Stompin' the guys head is criminal, but using the taser isn't. LEO's aren't MMA fighters and you can't expect them to get into wrestling matches with people who disobey their commands. I support the use of non-lethal force to people who try to get physical with police.

    If you were the officer who showed up first, how do you know they are mentally ill, or just stung out on crank??? They are dangerous either way.... Only thing you can do is get them on the ground and restrained as fast as possible. They had enough police there to do this without beating the guy IMO. Although the guy wasn't cooperating, he wasn't swinging back either.

    Completely valid points. I don't think most people under normal circumstances would resist, myself, family, friends are generally included. However, anything can happen and a slightest spark can lead to escalation. The respond to this case is way over the top, as in many other cases of police beating, which has been on the rise (http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-12-17-Copmisconduct_N.htm)
    Not necessarily. In Florida if you are a holder of a CWP, you are justified in using deadly force if you feel threatened with imminent serious physical injury or death. The ONLY reason George Zimmerman has been going through what he has, is because of the backlash from the black community and the associated activists we all know and love.

    We have justified cases here too, but it's seemingly disproportionate to whether or not the citizens get prosecuted vs. what LEOs are "allowed" to get away with. The most recent one is the Gerald Ung case which has video evident and he still had to pay nearly $100K for legal fees. We've seen plenty of "saw him reached into his waistband" all the time and it turns out there was no gun. No cops were ever prosecuted for that.
    Jay wrote: »
    ...

    This kind of stuff is not new. It is more popular in the media now due to the presence of technology. Any place there’s a cell phone, there’s a good chance there’s a camera. Unfortunately, there are many more times that officers use force properly, from simple handcuffing to the unfortunate but properly used deadly force. There are also many, many more times cops avoid the use of force by using their heads. This just doesn’t make good news headlines. Even when cops use deadly force and were perfectly justified to do so, the incident is dramatized by the media.

    The courts have held that use of less leathal force is not required prior to the use of deadly force where the threat of death or great bodily injury is present. That doesn't mean cops don't use less lethal force all day, every day and do prevent deadly force incidents. Unfortunately, less lethal force is also abused by officers regularly as well.

    Use of less lethal force should, whenever possible, be used along with lethal force backup.

    I understand that the media does try to sell in most cases. This one though, the media didn't really have to do much work to sell at all.
    DoctorWho wrote: »
    "It's a big issue in the LE world in general right now. Disability rights groups are pushing it and are using the courts to get LE into more training for dealing with mentally ill people as well as crisis intervention. Not bad thing at all. In most places, resources for mentally ill people and LE to assist mentally ill people aren't there. The cost is too high and usually ends up on the tax payers. No place a police officer can take a mentally ill person in crisis for treatment. A lot of hospitals aren't equipped to assist or can't treat against the mentally ill person's will.

    You raise two good points, NYS has State run mental health facilities, very good ones, training is very important, I think also is needed dedicated units to deal with EDPs, as rank and file personnel will not be able to assess an EPD properly, I remember seeing a traffic stop, the driver seemed combative, but also a bit off too, I pulled up in an umarked unit with the strobes on and asked if the Officer needed assistance, at first I thought the driver was drunk, then I saw a Medic alert bracelet = Diabetic..... a sip of orange juice and the guy came to his senses......

    Many times tragedy can be prevented by wisdom.......

    "Use of less lethal force should, whenever possible, be used along with lethal force backup."

    Communication is a powerful aid too, I have talked down countless EDPs without any force whatsoever, Compassion and the offer of a hot meal and medical care / and rest has worked wonders.......

    It's definitely not just training, but good training as you said. Proper communication between dispatchers and responding units would be helpful too. There were several cases where information was not properly relayed, especially regarding the suspects' mental health, which could have prevented some deaths.

    Speaking of good training, it definitely vary from place to place. Philly police suppose to have been trained about open carry in 2009 (training materials proved this), but for years after that they continue to treat open carriers like criminals. Not until they got caught red handed, by recording, acting unprofessional that things started to change. I'm thankful that recording media exist to hold public servants accountable.

    Al
    "In a controversy, the instant we feel anger we have already ceased striving for the truth and have begun striving for ourselves." - Siddhartha Gautama
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    Remember, As a CCW, even though you are one of the good guys, the responding LEO may not know or acknowledge this, they may not treat you appropriately, at the very least they may draw their weapons on you, the outcome will depend hugely on you, as a plain clothes LEO and later as a CCW, I have been through many such encounters, and the outcome, always good until now, has had much to do with My demeanor and behavior......

    Until a responding LEO has run your credentials and status etc...... you may have swallowed some dirt.......... :tooth::tooth:

    IMHE I have found that being submissive and non combative goes a long way to not getting killed.........
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • TugarTugar Senior Member Posts: 2,423 Senior Member
    Hearing many comments that are sound....for someone of sound mind. The LEO's in question killed someone by beating him to death. Someone who wasn't in a right state of mind. If they had enough people to beat him to death, why didn't they have enough people to subdue and cuff the individual to keep him safe? So the lesson here is obey the LEO's or they can kill you when you don't obey, and they will probably get away with it.

    It's crap. Yet another screaming example of the disparity between people and LEO's.

    Honestly, I really feel like they should be taken one by one, give a few tabs of LSD, then have four or five guys wail on them to give them the proper perspective.
    Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
    Winston Churchill
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,429 Senior Member
    One thing hasn't been mentioned. Sure cops are human and there's all degrees of humanity. Some have more self control some have less. But most that will beat up on defenseless people would probably not do it if they knew there were witnesses. I doubt a cop would brutally beat a friend or loved one in front of you. That's my opinion anyway. People, including cops, will do things they ordinarily wouldn't do in front of others when there's no one around to tell. Now this scenario changes completely when you throw in that you come across two cops beating someone.

    I personally think that there are a few bad cops because they slip through the interview and evaluation peroid and the ones that hire them have no idea who they really have working for them. I knew a guy that was a Texas Hiway Patrol that was totally unscrupulous. He was racist and would beat up on minorities he stopped and he got away with it for years. He was a real animal. However his lack of scruples finally caught up with him and he went to jail for other reasons.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • mythaeusmythaeus Senior Member Posts: 831 Senior Member
    snake284 wrote: »
    One thing hasn't been mentioned. Sure cops are human and there's all degrees of humanity. Some have more self control some have less. But most that will beat up on defenseless people would probably not do it if they knew there were witnesses. I doubt a cop would brutally beat a friend or loved one in front of you. That's my opinion anyway. People, including cops, will do things they ordinarily wouldn't do in front of others when there's no one around to tell. Now this scenario changes completely when you throw in that you come across two cops beating someone.

    I personally think that there are a few bad cops because they slip through the interview and evaluation peroid and the ones that hire them have no idea who they really have working for them. I knew a guy that was a Texas Hiway Patrol that was totally unscrupulous. He was racist and would beat up on minorities he stopped and he got away with it for years. He was a real animal. However his lack of scruples finally caught up with him and he went to jail for other reasons.

    I wish witnesses would always be a deterrent, but it doesn't all the time. A good example is the recent case in FL where the cop turned off the dash cam and went on attacking an unarmed 66-year-old man (news story with video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RT3aiEsoAJw ; more details: http://www.americandailyherald.com/us-news/crime/item/dashcam-catches-florida-police-officer-attacking-and-beating-unarmed-man). He didn't realize that cam was still recording. In the video, you can see that there was a witness (the man's nephew, IIRC).

    Witnesses can be attacked for being unreliable. More often you'll have words against words and words of LEOs tend to be taken with more weight.

    Al
    "In a controversy, the instant we feel anger we have already ceased striving for the truth and have begun striving for ourselves." - Siddhartha Gautama
  • QuinianQuinian Senior Member Posts: 707 Senior Member
    jbp-ohio wrote: »
    Well, everyone is going to hate me for this.....

    All of my family members would just lie on the ground if a LEO instructed them to.... Never seen one of these 'police brutality' cases yet where the person getting nightsticked just laid down when they were told to. Like it or not, you do have to obey their commands. Even if they are being Jackwagons about it.

    Sorry man, I know it's the wrong answer but, if it were my family getting beaten or a SWAT team barges in my house with the wrong addy, I'm leaving in a body bag along with a few of them. I will NOT sit by a allow my family to be beaten or my home to be invaded.
  • mythaeusmythaeus Senior Member Posts: 831 Senior Member
    Quinian wrote: »
    Sorry man, I know it's the wrong answer but, if it were my family getting beaten or a SWAT team barges in my house with the wrong addy, I'm leaving in a body bag along with a few of them. I will NOT sit by a allow my family to be beaten or my home to be invaded.

    This is yet another topic right along this line. Considering that SCOTUS decided that no-knock warrants are NOT unconstitutional, it's not inconceivable. We hear about warrant being served to wrong address ALL the time. It's only a matter of time before some armed law abiding citizen mistakes SWAT for intruders. No way a SWAT team member would hold his fire seeing someone with a firearm, either....ugh...definitely not a situation I would wish on even my worst enemy.

    Al
    "In a controversy, the instant we feel anger we have already ceased striving for the truth and have begun striving for ourselves." - Siddhartha Gautama
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    It's already happened- - - -a homeowner in Lebanon Tennessee picked up a shotgun to defend his family against the door-kickers he assumed were from the crack house across the street. The SWAT team shot him dead. Wrong address, and the one team member who caught the error before the murder was ignored by his supervisor. The man's wife collected a multi-million dollar settlement, but her husband didn't climb out of the graveyard when the check was cashed. BTW, nobody on the Lebanon PD got fired.
    Jerry
  • ghostsniper1ghostsniper1 Banned Posts: 2,645 Senior Member
    Quinian wrote: »
    Sorry man, I know it's the wrong answer but, if it were my family getting beaten or a SWAT team barges in my house with the wrong addy, I'm leaving in a body bag along with a few of them. I will NOT sit by a allow my family to be beaten or my home to be invaded.
    +1

    Only difference is that I would hope I could survive the ordeal, win a major lawsuit in the process and get a chance to flip the bird to the rest of the SWAT team at court. Sounds morbid, but those douchebags get no respect from me.
  • Uncle BSUncle BS Member Posts: 380 Member
    Teach wrote: »
    It's already happened- - - -a homeowner in Lebanon Tennessee picked up a shotgun to defend his family against the door-kickers he assumed were from the crack house across the street. The SWAT team shot him dead. Wrong address, and the one team member who caught the error before the murder was ignored by his supervisor. The man's wife collected a multi-million dollar settlement, but her husband didn't climb out of the graveyard when the check was cashed. BTW, nobody on the Lebanon PD got fired.
    Jerry

    Similar incident happened here in Atlanta. No knock warrant served on an elderly grandmother, she pulled a gun to defend her home and was killed. Large settlement here too. Several LEO's fired and the "Red Dog" drug task force was disbanded. Seems like the cops could do better than mapquest. :roll:
  • mythaeusmythaeus Senior Member Posts: 831 Senior Member
    Teach wrote: »
    It's already happened- - - -a homeowner in Lebanon Tennessee picked up a shotgun to defend his family against the door-kickers he assumed were from the crack house across the street. The SWAT team shot him dead. Wrong address, and the one team member who caught the error before the murder was ignored by his supervisor. The man's wife collected a multi-million dollar settlement, but her husband didn't climb out of the graveyard when the check was cashed. BTW, nobody on the Lebanon PD got fired.
    Jerry
    Uncle BS wrote: »
    Similar incident happened here in Atlanta. No knock warrant served on an elderly grandmother, she pulled a gun to defend her home and was killed. Large settlement here too. Several LEO's fired and the "Red Dog" drug task force was disbanded. Seems like the cops could do better than mapquest. :roll:

    Really sad, both stories. On one hand, honest mistakes were made, but absolutely no excuses. No-knock warrants just adds to the mess. Announcing "police" at least allows for the armed homeowner to possibly change his/her action.

    Al
    "In a controversy, the instant we feel anger we have already ceased striving for the truth and have begun striving for ourselves." - Siddhartha Gautama
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    Yep, a bunch of home-invader thugs would never think to yell "POLICE" to cause their victims to surrender!
    Jerry
  • wagnerwagner Member Posts: 40 Member
    mythaeus wrote: »
    I DO acknowledge that the majority of LEOs are good and decent people.

    I wish I could acknowledge this, but I'd have to stop short of doing so. I'm not contradicting it, just recognizing that I don't know the majority of LEOs, so I really have no basis for trusting that they are mostly good and decent. My opinion of humanity in general is that the world's population is not comprised of mostly good and decent people - again, I don't know most people, so this is just based on limited personal experience - so I'd assume the police force's cumulative moral substance more or less mirrors that of the general populace.

    I have friends who are cops. I trust that they are good and decent. I don't know the rest and therefore have no basis for trusting them. I regard police as essentially a necessary evil.
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    "I have friends who are cops. I trust that they are good and decent. I don't know the rest and therefore have no basis for trusting them. I regard police as essentially a necessary evil."

    Lots of Police Officers feel that way about the Public they have taken an Oath to serve, and as much as the concept is made fun of, perhaps those that feel that way, both LEOs and the People they serve, need some sort of therapy to help them reach an understanding..... :group:
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • mythaeusmythaeus Senior Member Posts: 831 Senior Member
    wagner wrote: »
    I wish I could acknowledge this, but I'd have to stop short of doing so. I'm not contradicting it, just recognizing that I don't know the majority of LEOs, so I really have no basis for trusting that they are mostly good and decent. My opinion of humanity in general is that the world's population is not comprised of mostly good and decent people - again, I don't know most people, so this is just based on limited personal experience - so I'd assume the police force's cumulative moral substance more or less mirrors that of the general populace.

    I have friends who are cops. I trust that they are good and decent. I don't know the rest and therefore have no basis for trusting them. I regard police as essentially a necessary evil.

    I understand where you are coming from. I had no less than 10 encounters with LEOs, for good and bad reasons, in my life and only 2 that I thought were less than pleasant overall. I have done work for a local police group and dealt with a few of them. There are several LEO/formers who are members on this board. My sense is that they are good and decent people. That doesn't necessarily completely reflective of how they do their job or conduct themselves, especially when it comes to dealing with gun owners. As discuss earlier, much of how LEO conduct themselves on the job has to do with proper and thorough training.

    Al
    "In a controversy, the instant we feel anger we have already ceased striving for the truth and have begun striving for ourselves." - Siddhartha Gautama
  • SirGeorgeKillianSirGeorgeKillian Senior Member Posts: 5,463 Senior Member
    Jayhawker wrote: »
    Call 911....Be a good witness.....same thing I would do for any other dirtbag committing a crime. Getting cooler heads on the scene may well help.
    Ridiculous as it sound, cops need to reminded at EVERY daily briefing that people ARE watching them and cameras ARE EVERYWHERE

    This. A camera or recorded phone call (like what happens when you call 911) can be even more dangerous than a gun in these situations.

    Sent from my Sony Tablet S using Tapatalk 2
    Unless life also hands you water and sugar, your lemonade is gonna suck!
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    I'm in love with a Glock
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,577 Senior Member
    Buford wrote: »
    In Los Angeles you are lucky if you just get beaten, they just might shoot you. LAPDs finest had to shoot dead a 100lb homeless woman brandishing a screw driver.

    And? Sure the TASER is an option in a multiple-officer-on-badguy situation. But, was it one on one? Or, better yet, what if it were you as a non-LEO who was encountered by a 100 homeless woman "brandishing" a screw driver and you had a CCW? Is that little ole woman a lethal threat to you?
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    JasonMPD wrote: »
    And? Sure the TASER is an option in a multiple-officer-on-badguy situation. But, was it one on one? Or, better yet, what if it were you as a non-LEO who was encountered by a 100 homeless woman "brandishing" a screw driver and you had a CCW? Is that little ole woman a lethal threat to you?

    Well, in the past when I faced people like that, I did not have to shoot, I talked them down, and I only endangered Myself those times too.......

    Sometimes you do not have to shoot.......... No taser either..... just My simple whining, "Stop whining son" said one lady, "I surrender "!!!!!! " just quit crying like a spoilt little girl"........
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • BufordBuford Senior Member Posts: 6,721 Senior Member
    JasonMPD wrote: »
    And? Sure the TASER is an option in a multiple-officer-on-badguy situation. But, was it one on one? Or, better yet, what if it were you as a non-LEO who was encountered by a 100 homeless woman "brandishing" a screw driver and you had a CCW? Is that little ole woman a lethal threat to you?

    http://articles.latimes.com/2000/jul/21/news/mn-56723

    According to the official police account, Larrigan and Clark, on bicycle patrol, attempted to stop Mitchell as she pushed a shopping cart along a sidewalk near the intersection of 4th Street and La Brea Avenue. The officers said they were planning to investigate whether the cart was stolen.

    When the officers ordered Mitchell to stop, the police account continued, she ignored them and began walking rapidly away, reaching into her cart and grasping the handle of what turned out to be a screwdriver.

    Just look at the flowers Lizzie, just look at the flowers.
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    Well, you gotta admit, it was a dangerous felony traffic stop, I mean an allegedly stolen shopping cart and all, got to stop them shopping cart thefts at all costs...... :roll:
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
Sign In or Register to comment.
Magazine Cover

GET THE MAGAZINE Subscribe & Save

Temporary Price Reduction

SUBSCRIBE NOW

Give a Gift   |   Subscriber Services

PREVIEW THIS MONTH'S ISSUE

GET THE NEWSLETTER Join the List and Never Miss a Thing.

Get the top Guns & Ammo stories delivered right to your inbox every week.

Advertisement