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2nd amend and rentals and the elderly

yes nine yes nineyes nine yes nine New MemberPosts: 1 New Member
I rent in a senior housing facility where the contract says that I agree to not have fire arms on the premise. I don't have a car to put a weapon in. Are there any Federal or Michigan laws that countermand this invasion of my 2nd amendment rights? I am an elderly person living in a medium to high crime area and am in poor physical shape. I can't put up much of a fight any more and I am to crippled up to be able to run away. Does being a senior citizen, one of the most vulnerable class of people in America, disqualify me from the right to defend myself. Have had one situation where two thugs were setting me up: One from behind and the other from my right side and at night. I posed as having a concealed weapon and they changed courses. That leaves me angry. Next time they may be to high to care. Thanks for your input.

Replies

  • jbp-ohiojbp-ohio Senior Member Posts: 10,723 Senior Member
    Do they search your apartment???
    "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson
  • SirGeorgeKillianSirGeorgeKillian Senior Member Posts: 5,463 Senior Member
    Sounds like you would be breaking a policy, not a law.
    Unless life also hands you water and sugar, your lemonade is gonna suck!
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    I'm in love with a Glock
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,917 Senior Member
    Sounds like you would be breaking a policy, not a law.

    Yep. The thing is, you signed a contract of your own free will to rent on private property. The property owners are well within their rights to limit your right to a firearm on their property, and it's doubtful you signed under duress.
    I'm just here for snark.
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,813 Senior Member
    Yep. The thing is, you signed a contract of your own free will to rent on private property. The property owners are well within their rights to limit your right to a firearm on their property, and it's doubtful you signed under duress.

    So, worst case, he could be kicked out or sued for breach of contract, right? (I'm asking, not being a smart alec.)

    This hits close to home for me, because my uncle and his wife recently faced the same situation. Being a law-abiding citizen, he got rid of a small, but very nice collection of firearms he had been collecting since the early fifties. A real shame, and he has nothing but his wits for defense and fits the victim profile that the very worst dregs of society prey on.

    I tried to convince him to hold onto at least one, but he is very straight-laced, so I doubt that he did.
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,917 Senior Member
    bisley wrote: »
    So, worst case, he could be kicked out or sued for breach of contract, right? (I'm asking, not being a smart alec.)

    I would think that would be the result. I'm not sure how Michigan law would handle it.
    I'm just here for snark.
  • blueslide88blueslide88 Member Posts: 273 Member
    You signed a contract with a private party voluntarily, so you're bound to it. I have to ask, though, why a person in your circumstances was out on the street by himself, and at night. You would need a Michigan concealed weapons permit to legally carry outside your "home". Do you have the health and the resources to obtain a permit, or do you already have one? There isn't enough information here to give an intelligent reply, other than there is no law I'm aware of that would over-ride your anti-gun agreement with the facility. If you choose to ignore that restriction, that's up to you. If you're found with a firearm, can the facility terminate the contract?
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    Sounds like you would be breaking a policy, not a law.

    Agree with you and others here. Worst that could happen is you get ordered to leave and they would be legally justified, your having broken your lease agreement.

    Living in some sort of care facility is my worst fear right now. I'm 70 and right now I'm lucky to be able to care for myself. I frankly don't know what I will do if I'm forced to go into some sort of "rest home". After my very poor knee replacement surgery in 2008 I spent a month in a "halfway" place that was the most horrific experience of my life. I will NOT go to a similar place again.

    My recommendation is to find another place, maybe a co-op or something, where a standard renter's lease would be signed that had no mention of firearms. It would be cheaper than the facility you live in now and maybe you could then get in-home weekly visits by caregivers? Just a suggestion because I don't know how much continual care you need.

    I wish you the best. In the meantime, if you keep a firearm in your room, who's gonna know? It's not against the law, just against the lease. I don't know Michigan law but I assume that private firearm ownership in the home/apartment is legal. However, you did sign a contract and it's specific, so that isn't illegal nor does it contravene your 2A rights. At least I think so.
  • GonzalezGonzalez New Member Posts: 5 New Member
    I think if elders can not keep weapon at their home for security, then should be provided some better security by the house owner. As there are some very nice old age house projects working and providing awesome facilities to senior citizens.
  • Make_My_DayMake_My_Day Senior Member Posts: 7,916 Senior Member
    Defending your life is more important than some lease agreement, IMO. If you do have or get a handgun, you might want to find a place to hide it when you're off the premises. A landlord usually has the right to do periodic "inspections" of the property.
    JOE MCCARTHY WAS RIGHT:
    THE DEMOCRATS ARE THE NEW COMMUNISTS!
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,244 Senior Member
    A landlord usually has the right to do periodic "inspections" of the property.
    Only with 24 hours notice or an emergency.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    I rent in a senior housing facility where the contract says that I agree to not have fire arms on the premise.

    Please give us a little more detail on your living arrangements. Do you live in a dormitory-type setting or a ward of some type, or do you have a private entrance type apartment? If you've got private quarters that are not shared by other residents, you'll have a few more options available to you than if you share a communal living area. Either way, the bottom line is to make a choice whether to abide by the lease restrictions and give up your right to self-defense, or figure out a way to have a deep-cover defense option in violation of the lease agreement. If the neighborhood is as hazardous as you describe, I'd strongly suggest you need to find a safer environment if possible. The main concern is to survive an encounter, or at least avoid one- - - -legal details can be addressed later, but only if you survive an attack.
    Jerry
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,917 Senior Member
    This thread was originally posted in June and the original poster hasn't been back since...
    I'm just here for snark.
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    Yep. The thing is, you signed a contract of your own free will to rent on private property. The property owners are well within their rights to limit your right to a firearm on their property, and it's doubtful you signed under duress.

    Agreed. You could be evicted. Problem is, having an eviction on your previous rental records would make it hard to find a new place.

    My advice is to search immediately for a new rental facility that does not have a no-gun clause on its lease. That's the only way you'll come out ahead on this. If you keep a weapon against your lease, no, it's not a crime but it will get you kicked out fast.

    I speak from personal experience. I'm retired, live mostly on SS, and I rent an apartment. Big difference is that I live in Texas. Here, the majority of leases have no restrictions on legal weapons. All basic leases here contain bans on illegal weapons (explosives, etc.) but the vast majority of leases make no mention of legal weapons (uniform Texas renter's lease).

    When I moved in, my landlord wasn't a pal but I did know him slightly. About 3 months after I was moved in, he came by to see how I was doing and check my cranky garbage disposal (he had it replaced), and while we were chatting, he showed me his new Ruger .357 Mag that he concealed carry, went to his truck and brought me his Colt 1911, too. I got out 3 of my own 1911s and we talked guns for a while. A big difference from the place you live. But this is Texas.

    Texas mental attitude is so pro-gun that when I signed a renter's insurance policy with my insurance company a few years ago, they gave me several sheets where I could fill in descriptions of my stereo, furniture, etc, and there was a special section for firearms that was actually print-titled "firearms" and had columns for type, caliber, serial, etc. My agent said it's important to get the complete description of all property, such as electronics and guns, including serial numbers. "Makes them easier to trace, and easier for you to get full replacement coverage." In other words, renters owning firearms is the normal, expected thing here in Texas.

    You didn't say where you live. I'd recommend you shop around for a facility that allows legal firearms. Check with gun stores and gun ranges, ask them for suggestions. They may know.

    Finally, go ahead and quietly keep your firearms even if it is denied on your lease, for the temporary situation. Worst case is you get evicted because you aren't committing a crime.

    And, do NOT bluff having a weapon on you for self protection. This is very dangerous. If you have the weapon, get training and get a concealed carry certificate and carry the weapon if you please, keeping this from the landlord until you find a new place to live.

    Let us know what happens -- we're on your side. Good luck!
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    Looks like our new member is digging up old threads like somebody wth a brand new backhoe! Anybody see any SPAM yet?
    Jerry
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,917 Senior Member
    Not yet.
    I'm just here for snark.
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    He's having a little trouble with whatever translator program he's using- - - -lots of grammar errors.
    Jerry
  • Make_My_DayMake_My_Day Senior Member Posts: 7,916 Senior Member
    The first 9 posts are from June 14th. The 10th post from Gonzalez brought us up to today. Didn't realize it was so old.
    JOE MCCARTHY WAS RIGHT:
    THE DEMOCRATS ARE THE NEW COMMUNISTS!
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    Teach wrote: »
    Looks like our new member is digging up old threads like somebody wth a brand new backhoe! Anybody see any SPAM yet?
    Jerry

    Ah. bream says it was posted first in June but no further replies. Anybody have ideas why people do this? What is their gain?
  • bruchibruchi Senior Member Posts: 2,581 Senior Member
    Could you pull the proverbial rug from under him?

    Get legal advice to see if he would be liable is something bad happened to you because yo could not have a gun to defend yourself at home?
    If this post is non welcomed, I can always give you a recipe for making "tostones".
  • SirGeorgeKillianSirGeorgeKillian Senior Member Posts: 5,463 Senior Member
    This thread was originally posted in June and the original poster hasn't been back since...


    Don't for a second think that will stop us from answering the OP! :rotflmao:
    Unless life also hands you water and sugar, your lemonade is gonna suck!
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    I'm in love with a Glock
  • SirGeorgeKillianSirGeorgeKillian Senior Member Posts: 5,463 Senior Member
    samzhere wrote: »
    Ah. bream says it was posted first in June but no further replies. Anybody have ideas why people do this? What is their gain?

    Ive done it before on other forums not realizing it. If you are used to a fast paced forum (where a thread is buried within a few days) it is easy to scroll down before you realize you just jumped into a time machine!
    Unless life also hands you water and sugar, your lemonade is gonna suck!
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    I'm in love with a Glock
  • MileHighShooterMileHighShooter Senior Member Posts: 4,982 Senior Member
    seems to be a number of new members in the last few days, most of them must be in the grave digging business because a lot of dead threads have come back to life
  • snake284-1snake284-1 Senior Member Posts: 2,500 Senior Member
    From my course in college on landlord and tenant law, you can be kicked out for sure, with probably no right to appeal if it's in the contract. On someone else's property they can tell you no guns. However, eviction and a law suit is as bad as it would get, and how bad they can get in your pockets would depend on the precedent in the courts within that jurisdiction. You can't be arrested if you're not violating a Law.
    I'm Just a Radical Right Wing Nutt Job, Trying to Help Save My Country!
  • ghostsniper1ghostsniper1 Banned Posts: 2,645 Senior Member
    Don't for a second think that will stop us from answering the OP! :rotflmao:

    Hahahahaha lmao. We love beating dead horses around here.
  • robert38-55robert38-55 Senior Member Posts: 3,621 Senior Member
    Defending your life is more important than some lease agreement, IMO. If you do have or get a handgun, you might want to find a place to hide it when you're off the premises. A landlord usually has the right to do periodic "inspections" of the property.

    That's pretty much what I was going to suggest too.
    "It is what it is":usa:
  • robert38-55robert38-55 Senior Member Posts: 3,621 Senior Member
    Hahahahaha lmao. We love beating dead horses around here.

    :deadhorse::deadhorse:
    "It is what it is":usa:
  • robert38-55robert38-55 Senior Member Posts: 3,621 Senior Member
    This thread was originally posted in June and the original poster hasn't been back since...

    You are correct Sir,Bream!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I just looked at the date on the upper left side of the original post. Thanks bream, I just learned something. Since the original poster hasn't been back since, could be that he/she, heeded the advice here and moved.
    "It is what it is":usa:
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