Home Main Category Second Amendment/Politics

Obama Amnesty Plan: Catch, Release, Vote

NomadacNomadac Senior MemberPosts: 902 Senior Member
Obama Details New Immigration Policy, But Skepticism Remains

Read more at http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/politics/2012/06/15/obama-details-new-immigration-plan-but-skepticism-abound/

It appears that Obama is getting panicky about his reelection and doing everything he can to secure votes from special groups. Appears like just another Dream Act with a different twist. What do you think?

Replies

  • KENFU1911KENFU1911 Senior Member Posts: 1,052 Senior Member
    Nomadac wrote: »
    . Appears like just another Dream Act with a different twist. What do you think?

    I think he just gave himself a huge boost towards a second term.............Ken
  • QuinianQuinian Senior Member Posts: 707 Senior Member
    ones who will never be able to collect benefits are even better!

    I have worked with several "Jake" "Jason" and "John"s who were collecting all kinds of SS benefits on top of working tax free. Call me what you want but ANYONE in this country illigally is ruining the place and needs to get das boot like right frikkin now!
  • 104RFAST104RFAST Senior Member Posts: 1,281 Senior Member
    What will King Obama do next, congress has no ball's, we are in deep dodo.
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,813 Senior Member
    Absolutely political, but also not a terrible policy.

    Is there nothing that this jerk does that you won't defend with your leftist rationalizations? And beyond that, what promise has he ever kept, anyway, to anyone that has ever made a deal with him? He will throw these people under the bus just as quickly as he will anyone else who has kept their part of a deal and is waiting for him to deliver on his part of it. All he needs out of this deal is a very public debate in which the media can demonize Republicans until the election...after which he will no longer care. The media will drop the story like a hot potato and the whole thing will just go away until it needs to be resurrected for some other political manipulation. If this jerk wins, he won't even pretend to give a damn about any law that stands in the way of his ideological goals.

    Do you really believe anybody could be less suitable for the job than him?

    How about we just insist that whoever we elect enforce the immigration laws? And before you drag out your talking points list of all the other politicians who have done similar, just understand - it's getting very late - and people are waking up to the realization that this country has been dismantled, incrementally by these 'acts of kindness' that supposedly don't really hurt anything.
  • CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Senior Member Posts: 14,375 Senior Member
    The people this applies to were under 16 when they were brought here through no choice of their own by their parents. Call them criminals if you like I guess, but its a pretty tenuous label.

    Then they have been here long enough to familiarize themselves with our system of immigration and correct their illegal status, there must be a reason they have not done this, $. You assume all of the illegals are going to line up for citizenship.
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
  • SirGeorgeKillianSirGeorgeKillian Senior Member Posts: 5,463 Senior Member
    Yes, deportation takes money. But how much money do you think we the tax payers are paying out right now every time an illegal without insurance gets into a wreck, or visits the ER.

    As for Obama being behind immigration reform, hell, his own uncle was in this country illegally. Living off food stamps in government provided housing. But I guess it would be cheaper to make him a citizen so he can continue to leach off the system instead of pulling him off of uncle Sams nipple 20 years ago like what should have happened....

    I'm sorry, I don't care how good of a person you are, illegal is illegal. Get out of my country and come back in the legal way.
    Unless life also hands you water and sugar, your lemonade is gonna suck!
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    I'm in love with a Glock
  • BufordBuford Senior Member Posts: 6,721 Senior Member
    I support Illegal immigration. I support giving a pass to those folks here Illegally. I support gay marriage.

    To say anything different labels one a Bigot.
    Just look at the flowers Lizzie, just look at the flowers.
  • SirGeorgeKillianSirGeorgeKillian Senior Member Posts: 5,463 Senior Member
    In order to break the law you have to know you are braking the law and have to have a choice in the matter. A 5 year old brought here by his parents could not in any court of law be legally held responsible for his actions. In order to be convicted a crime in a court of law a person must be proven to have mens rea (knowledge what they were doing was wrong). Also if you are forced to commit a crime by someone you can also not be convicted of a crime (ie if a parent forces a child to shoplift, the child is not a criminal, the parent is). Both of these apply to the people that this law addresses (people brought to this county as minors).

    Then again I guess I'm too much of a pragmatist maybe I should support the use of my tax dollars to track these evil people down and forcibly remove them from the country. Note this is NOT all illegals, but ONLY ones brought here as children.



    No alpha. Ignorance of the law has never been an excuse. In the case of children, their parents are responsible, and should be held responsible. Once the kids get old enough, they should realize they are here illegally. Hey, I'm trying to get a job and don't have a SSN. I wonder why that is? Once they are old enough to figure that out, and they choose to stay, they are criminals. They are no better than their parents that are sucking the life out of this country.
    Unless life also hands you water and sugar, your lemonade is gonna suck!
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    I'm in love with a Glock
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 18,162 Senior Member
    In order to break the law you have to know you are braking the law and have to have a choice in the matter.

    False...have you ever heard the phrase "Ignorance of the law is no excuse?"

    That being said... I could probably swallow some of this....IF...the right to vote were were not attached to it. Be here, work, pay taxes, etc,,,but until you are a bona fide citizen you do NOT get to vote...

    Also..honorable service in the military should be a direct path to citizenship...
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • SirGeorgeKillianSirGeorgeKillian Senior Member Posts: 5,463 Senior Member
    Alpha, you contradict yourself so much that you are spinning around and around. Let's see, they aren't sucking the life out of our country, but we (the tax payers) paid to educate them. The last average I saw was in the neighborhood of 9k a year per child for public education.

    You also talk about a lack of resources to kick them out. In the long run, it is cheaper to kick them out right now. But we as Americans just want the cheap now solution, and in the case of liberals, more potential votes.
    Unless life also hands you water and sugar, your lemonade is gonna suck!
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    I'm in love with a Glock
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    I'm all for Alabama's approach- - - -fine and/or jail employers who hire illegals, and landlords who rent to them. Leave the illegals alone. As soon as jobs and places to live disappear, they'll leave on their own. It's working pretty well 10 miles south of my place, and employers can't wait to hire the legal residents who are applying for the agricultural and chicken-processing jobs the illegals are abandoning in droves. They're deporting themselves, at NO cost to the taxpayers!
    Jerry
  • ghostsniper1ghostsniper1 Banned Posts: 2,645 Senior Member
    Not 100% true. While ignorance alone is not an excuse there is a requirement on the prosecution to show some level of criminal intent or recklessness for most crimes.



    In the case of a child brought here by their parents, their parents clearly had mens rea with regards to the initial crime of entering the country illegally, but it would be very difficult to prove that their children did. As for staying here after they reach adulthood, that is another question. Either way, I stand by my opinion that this is a good change. I do not believe they are "sucking the life out of this country", and I would much rather have them legally in the system, working and paying taxes than continuing to live outside the system, working under the table and not paying taxes. In most cases we've already paid to educate them and teach them English, we might as well get some return for our investment.

    I'm all for closing the border and kicking out the ones who are causing problems, but bottom line is we don't have the resources to kick them all out. Might as well let at least some of them start paying taxes and contributing. Those that have graduated high school here or served our country is a good place to start.
    Alpha you are either unable to admit defeat, ignorant or just that damn dense.
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,813 Senior Member
    Teach wrote: »
    I'm all for Alabama's approach- - - -fine and/or jail employers who hire illegals, and landlords who rent to them. Leave the illegals alone. As soon as jobs and places to live disappear, they'll leave on their own. It's working pretty well 10 miles south of my place, and employers can't wait to hire the legal residents who are applying for the agricultural and chicken-processing jobs the illegals are abandoning in droves. They're deporting themselves, at NO cost to the taxpayers!
    Jerry

    :that:

    I agree, and combine it with a better approach to enforcing existing immigration laws and going back to the paths to citizenship that built this country. I have absolutely no problem with immigrants who want to become Americans because of the freedoms and opportunities that exist here, as long as those freedoms and opportunities don't come at the expense of existing legal citizens.
  • bklysenbklysen Member Posts: 512 Senior Member
    I'd like to see more voice given to those Hispanics who've done it the right way - came here legally playing by the rules, setting up shop, becoming successful, paying their fair share of taxes, and sending their kids to school with their own hard-earned money. These folks don't much care for freeloaders.

    Why is it so difficult for libs to understand this?

    Edit..by 'more voice' I mean lets have NBC/ABC/CBS/MSNBC, etc. do a story on a few Hispanic families that have earned their keep playing by all of the right rules...and through sacrifice/hard work have made something for themselves....and not real fond of all this amnesty BS.

    Ain't gonna happen.
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 12,127 Senior Member
    Note this is NOT all illegals, but ONLY ones brought here as children.

    Since immigration courts are loathe to 'break up families' with deportation, what he has done is told illegals with kids that they have nothing to fear. They are not going to deport a 10 year old, but they also are not going to toss the parents out of the county and leave the kid on his own

    The illegals know this. We are the ones who are dumb enough to not realize it
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,813 Senior Member
    bklysen wrote: »
    Why is it so difficult for libs to understand this?

    The 'old' style liberals were capable of understanding logical solutions to problems, and mostly just wanted a 'kinder,' less rigid process of solving such problems, so as to make it more possible for more 'underprivileged' folks. This was reasonable and they could be compromised with, by well meaning conservatives.

    But, these liberals are dead and gone, and liberalism has transformed, over time, into something that more closely resembles European style socialism, or for some of the more radical types, outright communism. The 'love of country' that still guided the old style liberals has been replaced by a hardcore, win-at-all costs dash toward an all-controlling government.

    Today's liberals actually do understand the real solutions that will preserve our economy and not so blatantly fly in the face of tradition...they just don't give a damn, because it isn't what they want. They want the USA knocked down to the level of mediocrity that most of the rest of the world 'enjoys,' because they want government in charge of everything...with themselves being the government.
  • jbp-ohiojbp-ohio Senior Member Posts: 10,730 Senior Member
    bullsi1911 wrote: »
    Since immigration courts are loathe to 'break up families' with deportation, what he has done is told illegals with kids that they have nothing to fear. They are not going to deport a 10 year old, but they also are not going to toss the parents out of the county and leave the kid on his own

    The illegals know this. We are the ones who are dumb enough to not realize it

    It is a redefiniton of 'anchor baby'.....
    "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    jbp-ohio wrote: »
    It is a redefiniton of 'anchor baby'.....

    Actually, it's the exact same thing- - - -the anchor babies who kept the illegal parents here in the first place have just grown up. We're dealing with 2nd. and 3rd. generation illegals the same way we're experiencing 2 and 3 generation welfare families.
    Jerry
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 12,127 Senior Member
    Anchor babies (Born in the US) are US citizens. Now, we have anchor teens. Instead of an alien coming here and sending money back across the border to Mexico to feed his family, he now brings the whole family across and has no fear of deportation! Brilliant!

    Obama is either a moron or actively working against US laws and law enforcement.
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • ghostsniper1ghostsniper1 Banned Posts: 2,645 Senior Member
    bullsi1911 wrote: »
    Anchor babies (Born in the US) are US citizens. Now, we have anchor teens. Instead of an alien coming here and sending money back across the border to Mexico to feed his family, he now brings the whole family across and has no fear of deportation! Brilliant!

    Obama is either a moron or actively working against US laws and law enforcement.
    Sad thing is that Obama isn't a moron. The man has some alterior motive.
  • NomadacNomadac Senior Member Posts: 902 Senior Member
    Teach wrote: »
    I'm all for Alabama's approach- - - -fine and/or jail employers who hire illegals, and landlords who rent to them. Leave the illegals alone. As soon as jobs and places to live disappear, they'll leave on their own. It's working pretty well 10 miles south of my place, and employers can't wait to hire the legal residents who are applying for the agricultural and chicken-processing jobs the illegals are abandoning in droves. They're deporting themselves, at NO cost to the taxpayers!
    Jerry

    X2 it was also working in AZ until the Justice Dept. got involved.

    I guess Home burglars and Home Invaders are just uninvited guests and not Criminals by Alpha's definition. :roll:
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,457 Senior Member
    The anchor baby problem is an easy fix. Just make it law that one of the parents MUST be a U.S. citizen. We're one of only about three countries that do the born in the country means automatic citizenship. If you're born in Mexico of non Mexican parents, you are NOT a citizen of Mexico. Let's play by the same rules.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • Make_My_DayMake_My_Day Senior Member Posts: 7,916 Senior Member
    In order to break the law you have to know you are braking the law and have to have a choice in the matter.
    You are thinking of "Intent," and that is a valid defense in only certain cases. Haven't you ever heard of "ignorance of the law is no excuse?" These children of illegal aliens know damn well they're not supposed to be here.
    JOE MCCARTHY WAS RIGHT:
    THE DEMOCRATS ARE THE NEW COMMUNISTS!
  • coolgunguycoolgunguy Senior Member Posts: 6,633 Senior Member
    Good point. One fact that's often lost is that there a 4 LEGAL Latinos in this country for every one illegal one...


    Sources? Mind you, I am not disagreeing, but I wonder how we get an accurate accounting of folks who are here illegaly? And, if we are able to get an accurate accounting of said peoples, how is it that-since we know who and where they are due to that accurate accounting-we aren't able to efficiently evict them? Sounds like the heavy lifting has already been done....
    "Bipartisan" usually means that a bigger than normal deception is happening.
    George Carlin
  • SirGeorgeKillianSirGeorgeKillian Senior Member Posts: 5,463 Senior Member
    Good point. One fact that's often lost is that there a 4 LEGAL Latinos in this country for every one illegal one...


    And my beef is not, nor has it ever been with any legal Latinos. It is the ones that are here illegally that my problem is with. It doesn't matter what the ratio is, the ones that are here are too much.
    Unless life also hands you water and sugar, your lemonade is gonna suck!
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    I'm in love with a Glock
  • blueslide88blueslide88 Member Posts: 273 Member
    Nomadac wrote: »
    Obama Details New Immigration Policy, But Skepticism Remains

    Read more at http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/politics/2012/06/15/obama-details-new-immigration-plan-but-skepticism-abound/

    It appears that Obama is getting panicky about his reelection and doing everything he can to secure votes from special groups. Appears like just another Dream Act with a different twist. What do you think?

    Tonight Bill O'Reilly made a big point about Obama's new immigration "regulations". He stated quite strongly that Obama's directive is UNCONSTITUTIONAL, period. Obama has bypassed Congress and created his own law. Nowhere does the president have the authority to make any changes in immigration law. In fact, Fox showed a tape of Obama saying just that some time ago.
    It's all politics, folks, concerning the latino vote. Marco Rubio has been completely upstaged with the immigration plan he's been working on. Obama wants to "revitalize" the Latinos for the election.
    Incidentally, the libs are saying that if you oppose Obama, it's because you're a racist.
    Let's see if O'Reilly can get something going on this usurping of the Constitutional powers of Congress by the president.
Sign In or Register to comment.
Magazine Cover

GET THE MAGAZINE Subscribe & Save

Temporary Price Reduction

SUBSCRIBE NOW

Give a Gift   |   Subscriber Services

PREVIEW THIS MONTH'S ISSUE

GET THE NEWSLETTER Join the List and Never Miss a Thing.

Get the top Guns & Ammo stories delivered right to your inbox every week.

Advertisement