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Floyd299
New MemberPosts: 2 New Member
Safe to carry a 1911 with hammer down?
Floyd299
New MemberPosts: 2 New Member
A friend of mine had bought and is carrying a 1911 clone pistol. I noticed when he was holstering the weapon that he lowered the hammer on a loaded chamber. The thumb safety would not engage in that mode. I asked him not to carry that way because it wasn't safe. I'm not certain of that and wanted to check with more knowledgeable 1911 fans. So is it safe to carry it that way?
Replies
Is it a good idea? Probably not for a couple of reasons. First is that LOTS of folks have screwed up the lowering of the hammer in the past. Second is that the modern 1911 isn't really designed for thumb-cocking. The WWI-era guns had short grip safety spurs and large beavertail hammers - coming from the 1873 Colt Peacemaker, some of the earliest operational concepts called for thumb cocking to deploy, and this parts layout worked OK for it, but in military practice, this was fairly quickly replaced with the empty chamber mode of carry. The modern 1911's Commander hammer and beavertail grip safety aren't really helpful if you're trying to thumb-cock the gun. Quicker and safer with most of those to just chamber a round Israeli-fashion when you need one - at least if you're paranoid about cocked and locked carry.
Carrying the gun cocked and locked gives you the thumb safety (which physically forces the sear into the hammer, immobilizing it), the half-cock notch (or safety shelf depending on exact model, which prevents the hammer from falling completely if dislodged by anything other than a pull of the trigger), and the grip safety (which blocks rearward travel of the trigger until you have a hand around the gun). It's about as safe a way to carry a firearm as possible - provided that you still remember that you're carrying a firearm.
"Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
I point at a tote full of sheets and blankets when I release the slide to chamber a live round with my CCW pistol. Just extra insurance.
Floyd; Here's a website that explains the conditions of readiness for a 1911.
http://www.sightm1911.com/Care/1911_conditions.htm
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If your friend is that concerned about fielding a sidearm such as a C&L ( cocked & locked ) 1911, perhaps he should consider a firearm he might be more at ease with, there are any number of fine options out there, Glock, no external safeties, or any number of quality DA or DAO auto-loaders with external safeties....
You can smack the lowered hammer of a GI 1911 with a mallet and nothing will happen - see comments reference inertia safety Post#2. It's not a Peacemaker with a fixed firing pin that can rest directly against the primer. What the Series 80 and other hammer blocking systems do for you is prevent a discharge if the gun takes a sharp impact on the muzzle. Here's where we get to the collection of "ifs" - if you drop a stock weapon from high enough (or throw it hard enough), AND if it lands squarely on its nose, AND a combination of too much firing pin weight and/or too little rebound spring tension exists, the firing pin can travel forward on its own momentum and create a discharge. Some people lose a lot of sleep over this. Me? Not so much.
"Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
The 1911 was designed with the safety mechanism by Browning. I don't think it had anything to do with lawyers. Cocked and locked is the only way to safely carry one in my opinion.
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Yep! Keep in mind that the 1911 was designed to be used on horseback...hence the largely defunct lanyard loop...
As for the lanyard ring: I will have a lanyard attachment on my 1911s. I just want a flush mount one on an arched mainspring housing...
As the (probably apocryphal) U.S. emigre former Soviet Spetsnaz firearm instructor said "IS GUN! Is SUPPOSED to be dangerous!"
"Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
I installed a 19th Century lanyard loop on my 21st Century light-rail 1911.
One has to remember one's roots.:tooth:
"Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
Next time you go to the range, shoot that tote full of clothing...I bet the bullet goes right through. :tooth:
A technical impossibility.
If the hammer is lowered all the way against the back of the slide, then there is no possibility of forward hammer movement and no possibility of lunging the firing pin forward if struck. With the hammer fully seated forward in the uncocked position and the gun dropped, upside down, directly on its hammer, the firing pin would actually be forced against the hammer surface; not forward towards the primer.
Yup. I am showing how sleep deprived I am right now, but one of the safeties (grip or external) was originally not on the prototype, the army told John to go back and add it. Thinking it was the external. Can't wait to get sleep....
But if one would be concerned about that issue they should put on rabbit ears before dropping the hammer
since ringing ears is not the best music to listen to 24/7.
NRA Endowment Member
This is the 1911 I want:
http://coonaninc.com/
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enabler