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22 Hornet Effective Range

mattluketicmattluketic New MemberPosts: 2 New Member
For anyone who has a lot of experience with the 22 Hornet, I would like to know why some people think it's only a 200 yard cartridge when a 17HMR with a 17 grain bullet is good to 200 yards but I load a 30 grain Barnes bullet with a chronographed velocity of 3485fps. Can anyone tell me why this would not be adequate on varmint up to 300 yards?

Thanks

Replies

  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    Those numbers are way above any published load data I've been able to find. Where are you getting your information, or is this a load you've worked up on your own? Stuffing 10 pounds of "fertilizer" in a 5 pound bag is a recipie for disaster, eventually!
    Jerry
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,457 Senior Member
    That's faster by several hundred fps than I get out of my .17 K Hornet with a 20 grain V-Max! Overloaded is an understatement!
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • BigDanSBigDanS Senior Member Posts: 6,990 Senior Member
    I am still trying to figure out why they keep attempting to improve on the .223, it is so cheap and effective for what it is. If I add anything to my guns... .223 bolt gun, 30 06 bolt gun. My current AR15's are accurate enough to 300 yards.

    D


    D
    "A patriot is mocked, scorned and hated; yet when his cause succeeds, all men will join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain
    Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
  • BigDanSBigDanS Senior Member Posts: 6,990 Senior Member
    What I meant is that there are a lot of .22 centerfire calibers out there today. If I was buying a .22 centerfire bolt gun, I'd stick with the .223. The only other .22 centerfire that interests me is a .22-250 only because it shoots far and flat, and I would only be interested if I move out of Miami.

    D
    "A patriot is mocked, scorned and hated; yet when his cause succeeds, all men will join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain
    Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 8,474 Senior Member
    Define "varmints".

    On a 1998 industry-sponsored prairie dog hunt, I was firing .22-250 with an experimental factory load that sent a 55 grain flat-base soft point screaming downrange at an advertised (IIRC) 4000 fps. Seeing as I had a couple of primers that fell out of the case after firing, I tend to believe that figure.

    Out to 300, maybe 400 yards, the terminal effect of that bullet was enough to make you start humming Hendrix's Purple Haze. We're talking about parts landing more than 20 feet away from point of impact. By the time I was getting hits beyond 500 yards, however, I might as well have been shooting round-nose FMJ's. The kills were humane only in that a .22 hole through the chest of a prairie dog is much like a 12 gauge slug through the chest of you or me.

    A .22 Hornet will suffer the same limitations, but at shorter ranges due to lower projectile mass (such as your 30 grain slug) and/or lower starting speeds. I'm no expert on the Hornet, specifically, but I'd guess your spectacular expansion effects (which you would want for larger vermin like coyote) would leave the building around the 200 yard mark. Yes, you can center punch squirrels at longer ranges and kill them effectively, but you'll be dealing with greater wind and drop issues than with more modern rounds.

    Think of the Hornet in the same terms as the .308 Winchester; both the Army and Marine Corps say the effective range of the .308 is 800 meters - and the round is indeed blowin' in the wind and dropping like a brick at that distance - but that hasn't stopped enterprising snipers from making kills over 1100 meters with it. Likewise, the Hornet can go a lot farther than 200 yards, but progressively greater amounts of slide-rule calculations become necessary beyond that range.
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • AiredaleAiredale Banned Posts: 624 Senior Member
    Great old cartridge.
    Case capacity limits it to the mid to high 2,000 FPS.
    Jim
  • mattluketicmattluketic New Member Posts: 2 New Member
    Thanks for the reply. No it is not a published load nor in any reloading manual. It is a load out of an article written by M.L. McPherson in the Varmint Hunter magazine about the 22 Hornet.{Edited for unsafe load information}. This is what he found. I am way under that load. My cases and primers all look fine and I have used this load for many months. No one has said, as of yet, that a 22Hornet is effective at 300 yards on varmints, woodchuck size and smaller. But they continually say that the 17HMR with a 17 or 20 grain bullet is good up to 200 yards. I was just curious why quite a few people think that a 22Hornet cartridge is only a 200 yard cartridge.
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,533 Senior Member
    Thanks for the reply. No it is not a published load nor in any reloading manual. It is a load out of an article written by M.L. McPherson in the Varmint Hunter magazine about the 22 Hornet. {Edited}. This is what he found. I am way under that load. My cases and primers all look fine and I have used this load for many months. No one has said, as of yet, that a 22Hornet is effective at 300 yards on varmints, woodchuck size and smaller. But they continually say that the 17HMR with a 17 or 20 grain bullet is good up to 200 yards. I was just curious why quite a few people think that a 22Hornet cartridge is only a 200 yard cartridge.
    {edited} Gadzooks! Hodgdon, the folks who sell H110 and Win 296 list a 12.3 gr. maximum loading, incidentally with a 30 gr. Barnes bullet. Velocity's a stated 3150 fps, the max of all their listings. Your velocities seem a tad high, and I wonder about pressure signs...
    Overkill is underrated.
  • SpkSpk Senior Member Posts: 4,210 Senior Member
    Using the info you provided (30 grain Barnes bullet with a chrono'd velocity of 3485fps) and a simple online calculator at,

    http://www.handloads.com/calc/

    And assuming you're using something like the 30 grain Barnes Varmint Grenade bullet for your .22 Hornet,
    1250173486.jpg
    Technical Information:


    •Sectional Density: 0.085

    •Ballistic Coefficient: 0.101

    http://www.midwayusa.com/product/1250173486/barnes-varmint-grenade-bullets-22-hornet-224-diameter-30-grain-hollow-point-lead-free

    These are the numbers I'm getting: (assuming a 10 mph full-value crosswind and 200 yd zero)



    Range
    Velocity
    Impact
    Drop
    ToF
    Energy
    Drift


    0
    3485
    -1.5
    0
    0
    809
    0


    25
    3190
    -0.21
    0.14
    0.03
    678
    0.61


    50
    2942
    0.86
    0.49
    0.05
    577
    1.12


    75
    2707
    1.68
    1.1
    0.08
    488
    1.98


    100
    2484
    2.21
    1.99
    0.11
    411
    3.23


    125
    2274
    2.38
    3.25
    0.14
    344
    4.94


    150
    2074
    2.13
    4.92
    0.17
    287
    7.16


    175
    1884
    1.38
    7.1
    0.21
    236
    9.95


    200
    1706
    0
    9.9
    0.25
    194
    13.4


    225
    1542
    -2.12
    13.45
    0.3
    158
    17.61


    250
    1394
    -5.16
    17.91
    0.35
    129
    22.66


    275
    1265
    -9.32
    23.5
    0.4
    107
    28.61


    300
    1159
    -14.85
    30.45
    0.47
    89
    35.5



    I saw no need to take this beyond 300 yds. I think you can see why. If you're comfy at these ranges then more power to ya'.

    JMHO
    Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience -- Mark Twain
    How easy it is to make people believe a lie, and [how] hard it is to undo that work again! -- Mark Twain

  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,394 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    The hornet was made loooooong before the.223.

    Yeah, and the .223 is a vast improvement. I agree with Dan, why try to squeeze blood out of the turnip? Just get a .223 if you want to shoot at stuff 300+ yards away.

    I mean a Hornet has its place, but there are better choices for longer range.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 21,564 Senior Member
    Running the numbers through quickload 3561fps load is projected to generate pressure in EXCESS OF 100,000PSI :yikes:

    I have a pretty good idea of the charge of H110 your using, if you have a 24" barrel and it's generating nearly 60,000 PSI The load needed to get that velocity out of a 22" inch tube is just over 63,000 PSI
    If you're only running a 20" tube, your running in the neighborhood of 65,000PSI
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,457 Senior Member
    My experience with the .22 Hornet and groundhogs is that the Hornet is adequate at up to 150-175 yards max. on them. I load .45 grain hollow points specifically made with thin jackets for the Hornet. I tried the lighter bullets, but they bleed speed like crazy.

    There are better choices for 200+ yards. .223 Rem., .22 PPC, .221 Rem. Fireball, .222 Rem. and Rem. Magnum are just a few. And the .223 is the most versatile of them.

    The Hornet is what it is, and trying to make it do duty as a long range cartridge is taking it way outside it's intended purpose and use.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • crow0331crow0331 New Member Posts: 2 New Member
    A 22 Hornet with a 30 grain Barnes bullet with [EDITED FOR UNSAFE LOAD] of H110 is doable. Loaded many times in my own 22Hornet. I get 3450fps. The primer pockets are tight, cases pop right out on ejection. The 17Hornet enthusiasts load 25grain bullet up to 3500fps. They consider that a genuine 300 yard cartridge. Why not consider a 22Hornet effective up to 300 yards? As far as shedding velocity up to 300 yards with a light bullet, explain the new Hornady 17Hornet cartridge with a 20 grain bullet that is advertised to be legitimate up to 300 yards. It is logical to think that a 30 grain bullet traveling at that velocity would be considered effective up to 300 yards. I have heard this argument in the past and many people agree that a 17 caliber center fire bullet around 20-25 grain is lethal up to 300 yards on varmint. But a 22Hornet with a 30 grain bullet around the same velocity is not effective up to 300 yards?
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,533 Senior Member
    That much powder? Really? That's 2.2 grains over the max! That doesn't sound like much until you consider it's a 17.9% increase over maximum. Maxed out on H110 the .22 Hornet is going 3150 fps.

    And your 17 Hornet 25 gr. loads are 300+ fps over maximum. The only thing I'm seeing that comes close is a 20 gr. bullet at nearly 3500 fps with H4198 in .17 Hornet, or 3500fps + in the Ackley Hornet.

    And regarding the Hornady .17 caliber vs. the Barnes .22: the Hornady has a B.C. of .185, the Barnes only .101. In something that small, that's a big difference. Plus with SuperPerformance powder, Hornady's getting 3650 fps. Better B.C. + better velocity = better long range performance.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • crow0331crow0331 New Member Posts: 2 New Member
    Thanks for the reply and I value everyone's opinion. As far as being maxed out you can get UNSAFE LOAD case with a long drop tube but I do load 14.4 grains in there easily and there are no pressure signs and they have proven to be safe in my rifles. The 17 Ackley Hornet, they have a 17 caliber manual called the Sensational Seventeens. In it, the load data for the 17 Ackley Hornet specifies that one can use up to 13.3 grains of powder with a 20 grain bullet and the 25 grain bullet shows that one can use over 12 grains of powder over 3600fps. On Barnes' website they show a load for their 30 grain Hornet bullet that is 14.4 grains of LiL-Gun at 3378fps if I am correct. All of this is published data, except for the H110. I've been playing with the .22Hornet for many years, like many of you may have, and rather enjoy it. My cases with that load have lasted for at least a dozen loadings. It's always good to hear from others and see what they are using and what methods they have found to be successful.

    http://www.barnesbullets.com/images/22%20Hornet.pdf

    The above link comes directly from the Barnes Bullet website and shows the load data.

    Hope everyone enjoyed their Independence Day!
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,533 Senior Member
    Hodgdon (the folks who make/market Lil Gun and H110/296) show much lower pressures for Lil Gun vs. H110, so applying the data for one powder to another could get you into trouble.

    By the way, just because you can get the powder into the case, it doesn't mean you can still safely put more powder into the case.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,457 Senior Member
    I've been shooting a .22 Hornet for about 30 years now, and a .17K Hornet for around 15 years. I use Hodgdon Lil' Gun for both now.
    That being said, exceeding max loads in a .22 Hornet, which has a shallow shoulder angle and long neck, will exacerbate the brass flow and neck stretching that is already a problem with published max. loading data.

    Since the loads using above max. loading data are untested as to the pressure generated, you are in seriously unknown territory. Just because you can cram more powder into a case than the max. published loads doesn't mean you should. BTW, the max. published loads for the .17K Hornet are in the 40,000 psi range. The cases will hold more powder than the max. published data, much more than a .22 Hornet case, but I'm not interested in grenading my rifle and risking my pretty face seeing what would happen if I stuffed a case full of powder.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    I saw what was left of a very nice S&W .44 Mag after it ate one cylinderful of 250 grain JHP's stuffed over a compressed load of Blue Dot. On the first shot of the second loading (after the shooter knocked the empty cases out of the cylinder by hammering the ejector rod on the bench) it blew out one cylinder, took the top strap off, and detonated the two cases next to the blown cylinder. Like Forrest Gump's mama says, "Stupid is as stupid does!"
    Jerry
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,457 Senior Member
    Jerry, I think this quote by Will Rogers covers it pretty well. :tooth:

    There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.
    Will Rogers
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • RazorbackerRazorbacker Senior Member Posts: 4,646 Senior Member
    Teach wrote: »
    I saw what was left of a very nice S&W .44 Mag after it ate one cylinderful of 250 grain JHP's stuffed over a compressed load of Blue Dot. On the first shot of the second loading (after the shooter knocked the empty cases out of the cylinder by hammering the ejector rod on the bench) it blew out one cylinder, took the top strap off, and detonated the two cases next to the blown cylinder. Like Forrest Gump's mama says, "Stupid is as stupid does!"
    Jerry

    Yeah, I've seen similar specimens laying around on LGS/Gunsmith's counters. The guy that got me into reloading hot loaded everything. After one cylinder full with his Mod 629 I had enjoyed all I could stand. I loaded up, check that, I worked my way up to max loads for my Ruger Bisley in .45LC for deer hunting. But I never exceeded max loads published in a current manual. And of course those loads were on a separate page from the other LC loads.

    Anyway, OP, you have some very experienced folks who have seen and done it all, telling you that you are playing with fire. I don't mean to imply that I'm one of those folks and I know you haven't had a problem.
    Yet.

    Edited to ad: When I say specimens laying around, I mean busted guns, not the shooters who busted them.
    Teach your children to love guns, they'll never be able to afford drugs
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