To "Boom it may Concern" The Gulf full of WWII Munitions/ordnance?

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  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 23,956 Senior Member
    Forgot to add that Pu-239 is also a fissile bomb making material. My background is nuclear power production, and we only talked about materials as being fissionable, even though they were also fissile. During the fuel cycle a lot of U-238 got changed to Pu-239 in the reactor. We made fuel as we 'burned up' the enriched Uranium fuel. The U-235 enriched fuel made the reactor a little sluggish to changes in power level due to several factors. But once end of life approached for the core, the Pu-239 was a good deal of the fuel. The Pu-239 made the reactor change power levels a lot faster when rods were withdrawn.
    I may be a Deplorable, but at least I'm not a Liberal!!!



  • ghostsniper1ghostsniper1 Banned Posts: 2,645 Senior Member
    tennmike wrote: »
    Forgot to add that Pu-249 is also a fissile bomb making material. My background is nuclear power production, and we only talked about materials as being fissionable, even though they were also fissile. During the fuel cycle a lot of U-238 got changed to Pu-239 in the reactor. We made fuel as we 'burned up' the enriched Uranium fuel. The U-235 enriched fuel made the reactor a little sluggish to changes in power level due to several factors. But once end of life approached for the core, the Pu-239 was a good deal of the fuel. The Pu-239 made the reactor change power levels a lot faster when rods were withdrawn.
    Isnt plutonium a lot harder to enrich than the U235?
  • ghostsniper1ghostsniper1 Banned Posts: 2,645 Senior Member
    jbp-ohio wrote: »
    Your gonna have to explain how it is 'easy' to bombard uranium...... ???

    The explosive sphere has to be absoulutely perfect. If the esplosion doesn't compress the sphere perfectly, the uranium will just escape out an crack in the pressure wave............ Not so easy.

    Any good machinist could handle the task of making a perfectly balanced core. The hard part would ensuring the timing of the explosives being used. I believe they are using even simpler methods nowadays to bombard the fuel in nukes (excluding thermo nuclear bombs.)
  • KSU FirefighterKSU Firefighter Senior Member Posts: 3,240 Senior Member
    Any good machinist could handle the task of making a perfectly balanced core. The hard part would ensuring the timing of the explosives being used. I believe they are using even simpler methods nowadays to bombard the fuel in nukes (excluding thermo nuclear bombs.)

    The trick is machining the material without turning into the bomb's first victim. Not very nice materials to play with.
    The fire service needs a "culture of extinguishment not safety" Ray McCormack FDNY
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 14,301 Senior Member
    Any good machinist could handle the task of making a perfectly balanced core. The hard part would ensuring the timing of the explosives being used. I believe they are using even simpler methods nowadays to bombard the fuel in nukes (excluding thermo nuclear bombs.)

    You DO recall that one of the guys engaged in your "easy task"during the Manhattan Project died a very horrible death from radiation poisoning...right?
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • SirGeorgeKillianSirGeorgeKillian Senior Member Posts: 5,458 Senior Member
    Easy enough to prevent with one of these...
    Unless life also hands you water and sugar, your lemonade is gonna suck!
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    I'm in love with a Glock
  • ghostsniper1ghostsniper1 Banned Posts: 2,645 Senior Member
    Jayhawker wrote: »
    You DO recall that one of the guys engaged in your "easy task"during the Manhattan Project died a very horrible death from radiation poisoning...right?

    Two guys by the same sphere of uranium IIRC.
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 14,301 Senior Member
    Easy enough to prevent with one of these...

    A Dosimeter? In the event of a Manhattan Project incident...the only thing that trinket is going to tell you is how much longer you got to live :tooth: Write a letter home bud...you gonna die...
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • ghostsniper1ghostsniper1 Banned Posts: 2,645 Senior Member
    Very true Scott. The one story I recall is when one of the scientists somehow bumped or dropped the sphere of U235, which in turn caused a moment of criticality or something along those lines. He was highly irradiated in an instant. I believe he died a few days later.
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 12,844 Senior Member
    The act of machining uranium or plutonium can also create dust and shavings that create an inhalation hazard, leading to cancer.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • SirGeorgeKillianSirGeorgeKillian Senior Member Posts: 5,458 Senior Member
    Jayhawker wrote: »
    A Dosimeter? In the event of a Manhattan Project incident...the only thing that trinket is going to tell you is how much longer you got to live :tooth: Write a letter home bud...you gonna die...

    Well, it sure beats waiting till the signs and symptoms let you know you are going to die :jester:
    Unless life also hands you water and sugar, your lemonade is gonna suck!
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    I'm in love with a Glock
  • robert38-55robert38-55 Senior Member Posts: 3,621 Senior Member
    The act of machining uranium or plutonium can also create dust and shavings that create an inhalation hazard, leading to cancer.

    Yea I agree breamfisher but machining abesto does too, or so they say.. On the other hand, what doesn't cause cancer now a days, according to some?
    "It is what it is":usa:
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 12,844 Senior Member
    How the devil does one "machine" asbestos?

    By the way, research papers dating back to 1898 have connected asbestos with lung disease and cancer. So it's not "now a days." It's been a documented fact.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,160 Senior Member
    How the devil does one "machine" asbestos?

    By the way, research papers dating back to 1898 have connected asbestos with lung disease and cancer. So it's not "now a days." It's been a documented fact.

    I have seen couplings for asbestos-cement (transite) pipe being machined. It was the pipe of choice for water lines, until the late '60's or so. Also, it was used in ships, I think. When everyone started going to PVC, companies that had large amounts of the asbestos-cement pipe and connections would have the couplings resized to mate up with PVC of slightly different diameter.
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 12,844 Senior Member
    I can see that, but just asbestos would be kinda hard to machine, I would think, being as it's fibrous.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 23,956 Senior Member
    Isnt plutonium a lot harder to enrich than the U235?

    Do you mean enrichment via centrifuge or what? Not understanding the question. The Liquid Metal Fast Breeder Reactor (LMFBR) project that got canceled by Jimmy 'Peanut Brain' Carter was specifically designed to take U-238 and convert it to Pu-239 for use as reactor fuel (and bombs). It would have been separated by centrifuge.

    Here's how that reactor would have worked. U-238 would have been bombarded with neutrons. When U-238 absorbs a neutron the nucleus becomes unstable. The neutron just absorbed is at too high an energy level. That neutron spits out an electron and a gamma ray and the neutron takes on a + charge and becomes a proton. And an atom of Pu-239 is born. But that's only one of the possible consequences of an atom of U-238 absorbing a neutron.

    The last five years I worked at the nuclear plant, some of the fuel assemblies had the top control rod nozzle blocks replaced with rods containing lithium. Under neutron bombardment the lithium was converted to tritium, and helium.

    A lot of my friends in this area worked at ORNL in Oak Ridge as machinists or at the test reactors. Not many of them are still alive. Those that died had some form of some form of cancer. All but one was younger than me.

    Sir George, something interesting about that DAD device you have. Some of the first ones were tested at a test reactor on the ORNL reservation. I got to tour that reactor a couple of times. The reactor is used to create brief flashes of high doses of gamma rays for testing shielding and dosimetry devices. When it is in operation, no aircraft of any kind can fly over a wide area around the site. The gamma bursts are very brief, but VERY INTENSE. Looking at the building from the outside, you'd never guess what was inside that big metal barn like structure.
    I may be a Deplorable, but at least I'm not a Liberal!!!



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