Sometimes There Is Not Enough Words

beartrackerbeartracker Senior MemberPosts: 3,116 Senior Member
Sometimes there is not enough words to describe the job Nosler has done in thinking out the design and configuration by combining the components of the M48 TGR. As you all know I have an M48 TGR 7mm08 and you also know how my M48 just digest most bullets and loads and is an extremely accurate rifle, being a true 1/4" rifle with some loads and keeps all my loads with bullets tried under and inch. Yes, I go to great links with my reloading, using all that I have learned over the years to produce good loads.

Now that said, I think it was the right thing for Nosler to go with the 24" barrel for the 7mm08 while still holding down the weight of the rifle instead of a 22" barrel and for them to chose the hand lapped PacNor for the barrel was another good move. I say this because today at the range with me being one who is given to being a tinkerer (go figure), decided to test Q/L estimation that a 160gr Speer SBT Hot Core could be driven without being over max at 2800fps plus.

Well today at the range I tested their theory and the 24" barrel paid off in that I was able to drive the 160gr bullet at 2820fps on average using W760 with not any pressure signs. Now get this, my extreme spread on both groups tried was 6 and the deviation was 3 and the worst of the two groups was .764".

Now what makes this so wonderful is that this 160gr bullet with a BC of .515 matches the LR Duplex drop dots on my Leupold FX II 6x36mm almost perfectly. With such a low extreme spread of 6 and a deviation of 3 this will be a fine hunting and long range load. This Nosler M48 TGR is an extremely fine rifle.

Here are the calculation figures if the drop is sight in at 200yds zero using the LR Duplex by Leupold in my FX II 6x36 mm

Range Aim point actual drop



100 yards Cross hair +1.78

200 yards cross hiar 0.0

300 yards first dot - 7.9

400 yards second dot - 23.1

500 yards third shot - 46.7

Here is how my 160gr load with .515 BC works out at 2820fps

Range Aim point actual drop

100yds Cross Hair +1.7
200yds Cross Hair 0"
300yds First Dot -7.4"
400yds Second Dot -21.4"
500yds Third dot -42.8"


Still having 2,000 foot pounds of energy out to 262yds.

Replies

  • WeatherbyWeatherby Senior Member Posts: 4,780 Senior Member
    Does that mean the barely used .308 is for sale Enzo?
  • RazorbackerRazorbacker Senior Member Posts: 4,646 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    I hope they give you a freakin' commission when I end up writing a check for one... :cuss:

    He does paint a compelling picture doesn't he? I should know as I've already been victimized with the help an enabler of the first water.
    Teach your children to love guns, they'll never be able to afford drugs
  • BigDanSBigDanS Senior Member Posts: 6,807 Senior Member
    Help me out here... what's so special? Hornady superformance 30-06 in 165 gr factory loads are rated at 2960 at muzzle with a 40.7 inch drop at 500... Is it better because the .308 case is shorter?

    D
    "A patriot is mocked, scorned and hated; yet when his cause succeeds, all men will join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain
    Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
  • Big Al1Big Al1 Senior Member Posts: 7,073 Senior Member
    I was sceptical at first myself and when I fired the first round I looked at the chronograph read out on screen and decided to take a picture unless this velocity was not achieved again, but the high velocities was 2824fps.

    file-70.jpg

    average group .764"
    file-71.jpg


    Yep, this load will certainly do. :)

    Here is a mushroom I saw at the range and just thought it was pretty.

    file-74.jpg

    file-73.jpg

    On my way back to Jordan's to relieve Nancy until his mom gets home from work.

    Is that a magic mushroom, or an experimental nuclear device you developed to fire in the 7MM08??
  • beartrackerbeartracker Senior Member Posts: 3,116 Senior Member
    BigDanS wrote: »
    Help me out here... what's so special? Hornady superformance 30-06 in 165 gr factory loads are rated at 2960 at muzzle with a 40.7 inch drop at 500... Is it better because the .308 case is shorter?

    D

    Not sure what you are getting at, could you explain in more detail, I don't want to assume anything.
  • beartrackerbeartracker Senior Member Posts: 3,116 Senior Member
    Big Al1 wrote: »
    Is that a magic mushroom, or an experimental nuclear device you developed to fire in the 7MM08??

    That mushroom is cool man, don't you think so? :jester:
  • BigDanSBigDanS Senior Member Posts: 6,807 Senior Member
    The 7mm08 is a smaller case and getting 30-06 like numbers is impressive, but I beg to differ with you Chris, the 30 06 numbers in Hornady Superformance 165 gr is superior to the 7mm08. It should be. More powder and shot from a 24 inch barrel.



    D
    "A patriot is mocked, scorned and hated; yet when his cause succeeds, all men will join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain
    Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
  • beartrackerbeartracker Senior Member Posts: 3,116 Senior Member
    I was making a comparison with a 22" barrel as apposed to a 24" barrel 7mm08. I think what I got with the 160gr bullet out of the 24" inch 7mm08 was indeed special for me as I was able through load work to get a load to match pretty much my LR Duplex drop dots. This is all I was doing and I thought that was special.
  • BigDanSBigDanS Senior Member Posts: 6,807 Senior Member
    Ah so.... I bow to your your reloading prowess AND matching to your reticle. And the mushroom is nice, too.

    D
    "A patriot is mocked, scorned and hated; yet when his cause succeeds, all men will join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain
    Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
  • snake284-1snake284-1 Senior Member Posts: 2,500 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    Whats so special? The 7oh8 will beat the ought six at 500 yards. Less drop, and more FPE. (since I know you are a big fan of FPE numbers)

    yesno::deadhorse::silly::uhm::popcorn::fan:
    I'm Just a Radical Right Wing Nutt Job, Trying to Help Save My Country!
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 15,335 Senior Member
    Did you shoot the mushroom?
  • BigDanSBigDanS Senior Member Posts: 6,807 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    No silly, you smoke them.


    Mushroom tea is very effective, I heard once in college... but it tastes like mushroom tea. Eating dried mushrooms I heard was also very effective, washed down with a beer. That's what my college "friend" experienced.

    D
    "A patriot is mocked, scorned and hated; yet when his cause succeeds, all men will join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain
    Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
  • BigDanSBigDanS Senior Member Posts: 6,807 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    I cant do a print screen on my Droid, but you can go to Hdays www and use their balistic calculator.
    now, I did use a different bullet than Bear did, I used a 7mm 162 grain SST. Using 2800 as a starting velocity for the 7-08, at 500 yards the 06 does drop less. Its 40.7 low, as opposed to the 7-08's 42.6. So it beats it by 2 inches.
    Still well within the kill zone. But....the 7-08 has 1483 FPE, opposed to the 06 which has 1461.
    What difference does it make? None. Other than the 7-08 starts out slower with less energy, and ends up faster with more energy.
    So its a draw. You win the drop, I win the energy. : tooth:

    Well you can cheat and use a 180 gr bullet and the 30-06 drops 2 more inches at 500 yards at 44.1 inches but has 1509 FPE, either way it doesn't matter. My 3x9 scope at 9x magnification would have a deer as a small target. I think 300 yards is my outer limit. I wish I could find a comparison of deer sized targets at 100, 200, 300, 400 and 500 yards just for an example. I Googled around for it but was unsuccesful.



    Now if I could find a commercial load with an excellent 165 boat tail bullet I think it would certainly outperform the 7mm08. Clearly, ballisticly, a 7mm bullet will have a better ballistic coefficient than a 7.62 mm bullet because it is 8.9 % larger in diameter (.62/7 = .088514), so at longer distances it will bleed off less initial energy than the larger diameter round.

    One day if I own a gun with a hubble and attempt to hunt something at more than 1/4 mile I suppose I will consider it.

    D
    "A patriot is mocked, scorned and hated; yet when his cause succeeds, all men will join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain
    Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
  • BigDanSBigDanS Senior Member Posts: 6,807 Senior Member
    And just one more for fun... the Corbon 168 gr DPX outperfoms the Hornady, and consequently the 7mm08 with a heavier wider projectile... at 500 a 39.7 inch drop AND 1638 FPE. I don't handload, so I have to rely on manufactured ammo. I could not get the Buffalo Bore site to come up properly for an additional comparison.



    D
    "A patriot is mocked, scorned and hated; yet when his cause succeeds, all men will join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain
    Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
  • beartrackerbeartracker Senior Member Posts: 3,116 Senior Member
    Of course left out of this whole discussion is accuracy, you don't know without trying them which ones will shoot in your given gun and has at the same time very low deviation and extreme spread so that down range you are maintaining good accuracy so you can hit your target where you want to hit it - so out preforming velocity and energy wise means nothing if you don't know for sure it will hit where you want it to hit.
  • BigDanSBigDanS Senior Member Posts: 6,807 Senior Member
    Of course left out of this whole discussion is accuracy, you don't know without trying them which ones will shoot in your given gun and has at the same time very low deviation and extreme spread so that down range you are maintaining good accuracy so you can hit your target where you want to hit it - so out preforming velocity and energy wise means nothing if you don't know for sure it will hit where you want it to hit.

    Absolutely true. I still want to see what a deer looks like in a reticle at 100, 200, 300, 400 and 500 yards. I don't beleive I could make a shot over 300 yards with a 3x9x40 scope.

    D
    "A patriot is mocked, scorned and hated; yet when his cause succeeds, all men will join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain
    Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 7,099 Senior Member
    Dan,
    With some practice/confidence I believe you could easily take a shot beyond 300 yards with a 3-9 powered scope.
    The scope either needs a good reticle or target turrets where you can dial.
    You can easily make a cardboard target with basic deer sizes and then look through your scope at varying distances and realize it is not as difficult as it may seem right now.
    Getting out there and actually doing it is a big first step.
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • beartrackerbeartracker Senior Member Posts: 3,116 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    Incorrect. Its EASY done with a good quality scope. I was very surprised how much I could see at 300 with my scope set at 5x

    I can easily see my target out to 600yds with my FX II 6x36mm Leupold when practicing. I also had my 3.5-10x40mm VXIII on 6 power when I took a 618yd shot on a deer with my 300wby. OH, I got him, but I also have 10/20 in one eye and 20/20 in the other eye, I can see long distance very well and good glass does make lower power easy to use.
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 20,737 Senior Member
    I often use 4.5x to shoot out to 700 yards. Works fine.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • beartrackerbeartracker Senior Member Posts: 3,116 Senior Member
    I tested my 7mm08 round which has a BC of .519 (not .515) is sighted in at 230yds zero, being -5.3" low at 300 which is my first drop dot and from 0-300yds the highest point is only 2.7" high and the rest of the bullets flight is perfectly matched to my dots out to 500yds, and with my 500yds dot I can actually go to 550yds. Yes, I like this, man I am pumped for this season. :guns:
  • beartrackerbeartracker Senior Member Posts: 3,116 Senior Member
    Here is how I tested my 160gr Speer SBT 7mm08 round that has a BC of .519 (not .515).

    I used five rounds to hit four 1 gallon water jugs. 300, 400, 500 and 550. My friend and I went to his property at day light yesterday morning since Church was not till 10:00am and he has a MS Power line on his property and we had no wind plus the trees block north or south winds because of the pine thickets that run along both sides of the power line. I he took his four wheeler and set up the four jugs when he reached the spot that my range finder said was the distance.

    I sat in the same chair I put in my ground blind that has and arm rest I put the first dot right in the middle of the jug and hit the 300yds jug, the 400 jug was almost covered with the second dot but I hit it and the third dot covered the jug completely at 500yds but I got the left edge of it. I put it the same on the jug at 550 and the round looked like it hit just left and short of the jug, so I put the dot on the very top of the jug holding a little right of center and caught the left bottom edge. My friend and I both were surprised and I was pleased.

    Had to order some more of the 160gr Speer SP BT bullets because I have five loaded rounds left of this bullet.
  • snake284-1snake284-1 Senior Member Posts: 2,500 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    No silly, you smoke them.

    NO NO NO!!! You make a tea and drink it!!!

    Either that or eat em raw. Just make sure they're the right mushrooms or we'll be reading your obit!!!:silly::popcorn::rotflmao:
    I'm Just a Radical Right Wing Nutt Job, Trying to Help Save My Country!
  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 7,099 Senior Member
    Good for you Mike!
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • beartrackerbeartracker Senior Member Posts: 3,116 Senior Member
    Good for you Mike!

    Thank you Ernie, it has been a process.
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