S&W 686 and Hornady Leverevolution

minnesotashooterminnesotashooter Senior MemberPosts: 708 Senior Member
Took the .357 magnum 6" Smith and Wesson 686 out for a spin and was shooting the Hornady 140 grain FTX in their Leverevolution line. I was thinking about using it for deer hunting next weekend but after reading about some poor expansion, i am probably going to stay with some 180 grain hard cast bullets. But the 140 grain FTX was fairly accurate. Shot 18 rounds, 12 off a rest, 6 freehand at 30 yards and open sights. Your thoughts??
2012-10-28_16-41-36_796.jpg

Replies

  • ThatMattGuyThatMattGuy Senior Member Posts: 666 Senior Member
    I have been using Leverloution bullets to reload my first batch of .45 Long Colt's I whipped up for my Ruger Blackhawk I got earlier in the year. I too am disappointed in the expansion. The backstop I made to shoot into is layers of scrap boards so I can dig through it and recover bullets if I wanted. The load I am using is very accurate and in that respect but they do not expand or deform much at all. I did not necessarily want these bullets to reload with. They were all that was available on the shelf in the gun shop the day I wanted to get reloading supplies for my Blackhawk. From what I have seen of the performance after they hit an object I would not deer hunt with them. There are better options for the .357 mag I think.
    The poster formerly known as '69MercCougar
  • ThatMattGuyThatMattGuy Senior Member Posts: 666 Senior Member
    I went into the back yard and dug out a few from the boards. The first layer is pressure treated 1" thick decking boards and the next is old oak planks and an inch. They are always on the other side of those two layers and they always look like this. For accuracy my .45 loves them but they are not doing much once they start into the target. I shot some Hornady XTP reloads from my Python today and they were way more mashed up then this. I found those too.

    100_2202.jpg
    The poster formerly known as '69MercCougar
  • 5280 shooter II5280 shooter II Senior Member Posts: 3,923 Senior Member
    No offense meant MnShtr, granted you got six in a 1x1 sq, and most within a 3x3 sq.....but wouldn't you want it a little tighter for longer ranges? Maybe it's the ammo, maybe it's the operator......who knows w/o marking which impacts were made with what technique...right?

    Matt, I'd send those pics to Hornady...so they could regroup and reassess their wonder-round. Given your backstop media.....the penetration is there....but not the expansion....in fact, I see NO expansion.....however, given the physics and the media....I don't imagine solid wood to give like gelatin to allow for expansion. Just sayin' guys.
    God show's mercy on drunks and dumb animals.........two outa three ain't a bad score!
  • BigDanSBigDanS Senior Member Posts: 6,788 Senior Member
    :that:

    At 90 feet from a bench rest with good ammo, a fixed 6 inch barrel, open sights, and good technique I would expect a three inch or less group.

    YMMV.

    D
    "A patriot is mocked, scorned and hated; yet when his cause succeeds, all men will join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain
    Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 23,903 Senior Member
    Well, as someone explained to me when I said that those bullets
    did not give me a warm and fuzzy feeling shooting water filled
    objects, " it is a rifle bullet after all meant for rifle velocities ".

    He is right , I suppose, since I did not get expected explosive expansion.
    But, then it is a bullet for for shooting critters not jugs of water.

    I tried .357, .44 mag, and 45 Colt.
    A Veteran is someone that served in the Military, it does not matter where they served.
  • 5280 shooter II5280 shooter II Senior Member Posts: 3,923 Senior Member
    Agree, that's why I forgave that account with my last sentence..... :tooth:
    God show's mercy on drunks and dumb animals.........two outa three ain't a bad score!
  • BuffcoBuffco Senior Member Posts: 6,243 Senior Member
    Goo would make for more expansion than something hard?

    And how are these bullets expanding at rifle velocities, say like with the .30-30?
  • ThatMattGuyThatMattGuy Senior Member Posts: 666 Senior Member
    I have a lever action .44 mag and some Leverloution factory ammo that came with it. I could get a bucket with water and maybe an out of date ham from work and shoot through that and see what happens! I should be able to find the bullets again
    The poster formerly known as '69MercCougar
  • coolgunguycoolgunguy Senior Member Posts: 6,352 Senior Member
    Buffco wrote: »
    Goo would make for more expansion than something hard?

    And how are these bullets expanding at rifle velocities, say like with the .30-30?


    I'm guessing that hydraulic pressure might cause some expansion, and higher velocities would account for more.
    "Bipartisan" usually means that a bigger than normal deception is happening.
    George Carlin
  • RazorbackerRazorbacker Senior Member Posts: 4,646 Senior Member
    Buffco wrote: »
    Goo would make for more expansion than something hard?

    And how are these bullets expanding at rifle velocities, say like with the .30-30?

    And that's the thing. they're called Leverevolution for a reason. Lever rifles. Not revolvers. IMHO it's all about MV.
    Teach your children to love guns, they'll never be able to afford drugs
  • jbp-ohiojbp-ohio Senior Member Posts: 9,459 Senior Member
    Try lining up six milk jugs of water to test for expansion.

    Hornady claims expansion at pistol and rifle velocities....
    “Dramatically improved terminal performance in both expansion and depth of penetration over a very broad range of velocities in both pistol and lever action rifles,” said Dave Emary, the Senior Ballistician for Hornady Manufacturing, Inc.

    The .357 Magnum and .44 Magnum have been popular in both handgun and lever-action rifle hunting. The LeverEvolution ammunition gives these two cartridges more capability when shooting from either type of firearm.

    Hornady claims the .357 and .44 LeverEvolution loadings produce a “devastating wound cavity even at low velocities.”


    Read the original article here: http://www.gunsholstersandgear.com/2008/03/04/hornady-leverevolution-line-expands-to-include-the-357-magnum-and-44-magnum/ .
    "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson
  • jbohiojbohio Senior Member Posts: 5,500 Senior Member
    Thoughts?
    I'd switch to XTP's. They shoot great out of all of my guns, and expand. Major doses of H110.
  • ThatMattGuyThatMattGuy Senior Member Posts: 666 Senior Member
    And that's the thing. they're called Leverevolution for a reason. Lever rifles. Not revolvers. IMHO it's all about MV.

    That is marketing. They call it that so you will buy it. Anything past making it cycle through a lever gun and it should perform the same out of either type firearm. Because they know we will try and shoot them through handguns. There is nothing magical about that plastic insert other then it will not set rounds off in your magazine tube. Once I chamber a round in my lever .44 mag it should perform just like any other .44 mag round.
    The poster formerly known as '69MercCougar
  • RiflemannRiflemann Member Posts: 269 Member
    Minnesotashooter, I also have shoot the leverevolution ammo out of my 686, but I have settled on Hornady 140gr. XTP handloads for deer. I have had good groups with an average chrono speed of 1390fps with the XTP's. Good Luck this coming weekend deer hunting,----Riflemann
  • coolgunguycoolgunguy Senior Member Posts: 6,352 Senior Member
    That is marketing. They call it that so you will buy it. Anything past making it cycle through a lever gun and it should perform the same out of either type firearm. Because they know we will try and shoot them through handguns. There is nothing magical about that plastic insert other then it will not set rounds off in your magazine tube. Once I chamber a round in my lever .44 mag it should perform just like any other .44 mag round.


    So MV won't be higher from a rifle or carbine compared to a handgun? :uhm:

    I'm sure the difference may not be huge, but I'm guessing it's significant.
    "Bipartisan" usually means that a bigger than normal deception is happening.
    George Carlin
  • jbp-ohiojbp-ohio Senior Member Posts: 9,459 Senior Member
    coolgunguy wrote: »
    So MV won't be higher from a rifle or carbine compared to a handgun? :uhm:

    I'm sure the difference may not be huge, but I'm guessing it's significant.

    Hornady_LeverEvolution.jpg
    "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson
  • ddrillerddriller Member Posts: 77 Member
    In 357 would recommend 180 gr Federal , Cor-bon or Grizzley, have heard some not so good stuff about Leverlution, maybe you could try Zombie-Max and see how that works
  • minnesotashooterminnesotashooter Senior Member Posts: 708 Senior Member
    ddriller wrote: »
    In 357 would recommend 180 gr Federal , Cor-bon or Grizzley, have heard some not so good stuff about Leverlution, maybe you could try Zombie-Max and see how that works

    I don't think the Zombie-Max is made in .357
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    Remember that expansion when fired from a six inch barreled revolver most will likely not be as good as the results from a 16 inch carbine.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
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