The Unions have killed an American Icon,, the Twinkies.

robert38-55robert38-55 Senior MemberPosts: 3,621 Senior Member
Man what's this world comming to? I have enjoyed and ate Hostess brand and twinkies for all my life, and now I might not be able to get anymore of them? Well this justs bites a big Green one doesn't it. Just goes to show how organized Labor/Unions can tear up an anvil with a feather. I want my twinkies!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The maker of Twinkies will ask a judge for permission to liquidate and close all operations as soon as November 20 if workers do not end the strike.

Hostess Brands Inc. said it will ask a U.S. bankruptcy judge for permission to liquidate if enough striking workers do not return to work by the end of Thursday to let the maker of Twinkies and Wonder Bread resume normal operations.

Wednesday's announcement escalates a bitter dispute between the 82-year-old company and the Bakery, Confectionery, Tobacco Workers and Grain Millers International Union, whose members constitute about one-third of Hostess' nearly 18,000 employees.

A union spokeswoman said the union would have no immediate comment.

Workers at Hostess plants across the country had gone on strike or refused to cross picket lines on November 9 to protest pay cuts that Hostess had in bankruptcy court won the right to impose. That prompted the company at the time to raise the specter of liquidation in case of a widespread strike.

On Wednesday, Hostess said that if enough striking workers did not return to work by 5 p.m. ET the next day, the company would on Friday ask U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Robert Drain in White Plains, New York, who oversees its Chapter 11 reorganization, for permission to shut down and sell assets.

"We simply do not have the financial resources to survive an ongoing national strike," Hostess Chief Executive Gregory Rayburn said in a statement.

The Irving, Texas-based company had previously reached agreement on pay and benefit cuts with the International Brotherhood of Teamsters, its largest union.

Hostess said if it wins permission to liquidate, it will begin to close all operations as soon as November 20, two days before Thanksgiving, and fire all plant workers except those needed to prepare its facilities for sale.

Earlier this week, Hostess said the strike forced it to permanently close three of its 36 bakeries, costing 627 jobs.

The company said it has 565 distribution centers and 570 bakery outlet stores, as well as the 33 other bakeries.

Hostess filed for protection from creditors on January 11, its second bankruptcy filing in less than three years, after failing to win concessions on pension and health benefits. The company had about $860 million of debt at the time.

The case is In re: Hostess Brands Inc, U.S. Bankruptcy Court, Southern District of New York, No. 12-22052.

(Reporting by Phil Wahba and Jonathan Stempel in New York)


http://news.msn.com/us/hostess-may-close-down-for-good-if-workers-do-not-return-by-thursday
"It is what it is":usa:
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Replies

  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 25,957 Senior Member
    Well, the union workers got more than they bargained for with this one. Instead of holding the company hostage for higher pay and benefits they get to sign up for unemployment. They killed the goose that laid the golden eggs for them.
    Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.


  • EturnEturn Member Posts: 317 Member
    Twinkies will still be around. There are other companies that make them. And once the bankruptcy is done a "different" company will buy the plants and rename then open their doors without the labor contracts that seem to have made it impossible to produce a profitable product. If this doesnt happen look for the silver lining. Like, no more snowballs.
    “Not everyone is willing to embrace liberty; liberty requires not just effort, but risk. Some people choose to delude themselves and see their chains as protective armor.”
  • Make_My_DayMake_My_Day Senior Member Posts: 7,111 Senior Member
    Unions once served a noble purpose, to bring workers out of poverty and dangerous, slave-like working conditions. I no longer see them as performing that mission. Now, they are more like greed-heads and pimps for left-wing politicians. After all, labor unions were started by communists for the most part. It seems like labor unions and Chicago organized crime have a lot in common. Who needs drugs and gambling when they have a stranglehold on the millions of dues paying forced-union employees.
    JOE MCCARTHY WAS RIGHT:
    THE DEMOCRATS ARE THE NEW COMMUNISTS!
  • SirGeorgeKillianSirGeorgeKillian Senior Member Posts: 5,458 Senior Member
    I see both sides of it. Without unions, people would be at the mercy of employers to get screwed over. Give them too much power, and this (and much much worse) happens. SC is a right to work state, back when I worked for the city, I had a chief who would tell me he had a stack of applications this thick (making jesture with his hand) of people who were waiting for me to mess up so he could fire me. The fire union was a joke, and you could practically be fired just for association with it.
    Now with the fed system, or union is just how I feel it should be. We can't strike, we can't negotiate pay. We make sure the management's policies are fair and in line with federal laws. Trust me, if it wasn't for our union, my job would suck.
    Unless life also hands you water and sugar, your lemonade is gonna suck!
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    I'm in love with a Glock
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 6,498 Senior Member
    Eturn wrote: »
    Twinkies will still be around. There are other companies that make them. And once the bankruptcy is done a "different" company will buy the plants and rename then open their doors without the labor contracts that seem to have made it impossible to produce a profitable product. If this doesnt happen look for the silver lining. Like, no more snowballs.

    Thats how they got into trouble. The parent co (Interstate Brands IBC) bought a co (Continental baking CBC)that was going under, and inherited the unions which were running the other co down. They are stuck with them and they took the CBC leadership model (why do companies do this???) and ran it into the ground, then filed chapter 11 for restructuring. If they cant stay open then the jobs will go away. As far as I can tell, there is no niche that needs to be filled in this economy by a sugar and preservative company that isnt already covered. Other companies will pick up the slack but no one is going to spend the money to buy factories that just tanked.

    BTW, the snowball is going to be the 18000 jobs that will be directly affected and the ones you never hear about like the corner store guy and the Jiffy Lube that used to be on the way to work.
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • FisheadgibFisheadgib Senior Member Posts: 5,619 Senior Member
    Good thing BHO doesn't have a sweet tooth or the government would be bailing Hostess out.
    snake284 wrote: »
    For my point of view, cpj is a lot like me
    .
  • EturnEturn Member Posts: 317 Member
    Unions once served a noble purpose, to bring workers out of poverty and dangerous, slave-like working conditions. I no longer see them as performing that mission. Now, they are more like greed-heads and pimps for left-wing politicians. After all, labor unions were started by communists for the most part. It seems like labor unions and Chicago organized crime have a lot in common. Who needs drugs and gambling when they have a stranglehold on the millions of dues paying forced-union employees.

    As Ive said in the past, I am not exactly pro union, but in my state, and the others that I have researched, you can not legally be forced into a union any more, and if at any point you do not believe the union is properly representing you, you can opt out and if they punish you for it, they are in trouble with the law.
    “Not everyone is willing to embrace liberty; liberty requires not just effort, but risk. Some people choose to delude themselves and see their chains as protective armor.”
  • EturnEturn Member Posts: 317 Member
    Thats how they got into trouble. The parent co (Interstate Brands IBC) bought a co (Continental baking CBC)that was going under, and inherited the unions which were running the other co down. They are stuck with them and they took the CBC leadership model (why do companies do this???) and ran it into the ground, then filed chapter 11 for restructuring. If they cant stay open then the jobs will go away. As far as I can tell, there is no niche that needs to be filled in this economy by a sugar and preservative company that isnt already covered. Other companies will pick up the slack but no one is going to spend the money to buy factories that just tanked.

    BTW, the snowball is going to be the 18000 jobs that will be directly affected and the ones you never hear about like the corner store guy and the Jiffy Lube that used to be on the way to work.

    I do wonder how much of this is because of the union, and how much is because of poor management.
    “Not everyone is willing to embrace liberty; liberty requires not just effort, but risk. Some people choose to delude themselves and see their chains as protective armor.”
  • BigDanSBigDanS Senior Member Posts: 6,798 Senior Member
    Unions used to perform a function, but now we have an effective Department of Labor and law to protect workers. It does not take a $40 per hour worker to put 5 bolts on a car tire, but that is what car companies face.

    D
    "A patriot is mocked, scorned and hated; yet when his cause succeeds, all men will join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain
    Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
  • FisheadgibFisheadgib Senior Member Posts: 5,619 Senior Member
    Eturn wrote: »
    As Ive said in the past, I am not exactly pro union, but in my state, and the others that I have researched, you can not legally be forced into a union any more, and if at any point you do not believe the union is properly representing you, you can opt out and if they punish you for it, they are in trouble with the law.


    That's all correct in theory but in real life it doesn't always play out like that. I worked for General Dynamics in Fort Worth years ago and was a member of the IAM. (international association of machinists) You didn't have to be in the union but even if you weren't, you had the union dues taken out of your paycheck and you just didn't get any representation from the union if you had any management or harrasment issues. If you elected not to be in the union, the commiteemen made it a point to let everyone know and you would be shunned and discriminated against by all of your co workers. It would make for a very uncomfortable work environment.
    snake284 wrote: »
    For my point of view, cpj is a lot like me
    .
  • EturnEturn Member Posts: 317 Member
    Fisheadgib wrote: »
    That's all correct in theory but in real life it doesn't always play out like that. I worked for General Dynamics in Fort Worth years ago and was a member of the IAM. (international association of machinists) You didn't have to be in the union but even if you weren't, you had the union dues taken out of your paycheck and you just didn't get any representation from the union if you had any management or harrasment issues. If you elected not to be in the union, the commiteemen made it a point to let everyone know and you would be shunned and discriminated against by all of your co workers. It would make for a very uncomfortable work environment.

    I am not saying that you're wrong. But that sounds completely backward. Here, and I believe everywhere because of what I believe to be federal law (that was the way HR and the lead chair explained it when I hired on) if you opt to not be a part of the union you pay no dues, and they are still required to represent you. But you get no say in voting.

    Back when I worked for Case I did join, but that was only because at the time I planned on being there for a while. It wasn't perfect, and there were issues that needed to be fixed. But I could have no part in fixing it if I wasn't a member.

    There, the union can only strike if the company breaks the contract or while contract is under negotiation, and deliberation and has ran past the effective date the new contract was to take effect.
    “Not everyone is willing to embrace liberty; liberty requires not just effort, but risk. Some people choose to delude themselves and see their chains as protective armor.”
  • DurangoKidDurangoKid Member Posts: 183 Member
    I wonder what these cup cakes will taste like when made in China?
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 6,498 Senior Member
    You worked for Case?


    Cool, ya know where my 1845 is leaking hyd fluid offhand?

    Actually, that does answer some questions. You must have been a bolt and nut putter, because I have to deform my arms to get to anything on this [expletive deleted] thing because the holes to get there are smaller than my arms. I figured they only hired long armed midget contortionists with 8 fingers per hand.
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • EturnEturn Member Posts: 317 Member
    Nope. Never worked in assembly. I started out on outter/dipper robot and post weld, then chassis robot, then went to machine repair.

    I never worked on the Skidsteers at all. But just like any hydraulic system there aren't many places it can leak. Is there any particular function that seems sluggish?

    I hate to say this, because the hoes were pretty good pieces of machinery, but the skidsteers were crap. Shoulda bought a CAT.
    “Not everyone is willing to embrace liberty; liberty requires not just effort, but risk. Some people choose to delude themselves and see their chains as protective armor.”
  • Make_My_DayMake_My_Day Senior Member Posts: 7,111 Senior Member
    DurangoKid wrote: »
    I wonder what these cup cakes will taste like when made in China?
    Then they can call it the "whoo flung crap cake."
    :vomit:

    :fan:
    JOE MCCARTHY WAS RIGHT:
    THE DEMOCRATS ARE THE NEW COMMUNISTS!
  • EturnEturn Member Posts: 317 Member
    You worked for Case?


    Cool, ya know where my 1845 is leaking hyd fluid offhand?

    Actually, that does answer some questions. You must have been a bolt and nut putter, because I have to deform my arms to get to anything on this [expletive deleted] thing because the holes to get there are smaller than my arms. I figured they only hired long armed midget contortionists with 8 fingers per hand.

    Out of curiosity. Is it a plain jane 45, or a B or C? Regardless, it hyd problems are all you're having you're pretty lucky. The last incarnation of the 1845 was built twelve years ago.
    “Not everyone is willing to embrace liberty; liberty requires not just effort, but risk. Some people choose to delude themselves and see their chains as protective armor.”
  • Make_My_DayMake_My_Day Senior Member Posts: 7,111 Senior Member
    .........Trust me, if it wasn't for our union, my job would suck.
    I had the same experience as a member of the PBA. I wasn't particularly fond of my job for a number of reasons, but in the seventeen years I was there my pay was advanced 600%, more sick days, days off, holiday pay and a host of other things that made it extremely difficult to even consider doing something else.

    Since then, my old union seems to have gone the greed-head route, even endorsing Democrats (gasp) who support their demands for higher pay. I get the PBA newsletter and see the stories about their fight with the county over a number of issues. It seems much like the public sector unions in Wisconsin...unwilling to give up anything for the betterment of the financial conditions of the employer. Now that I'm just a private citizen, I see things a bit differently than I did back in those days.
    JOE MCCARTHY WAS RIGHT:
    THE DEMOCRATS ARE THE NEW COMMUNISTS!
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 6,498 Senior Member
    45, it was incarnated 30 years ago. I was weaned on a 1320, learned to operate on a 1835 and have now inherited the 1845.
    Actually from field experiance the only real problem with the 1845's is the access hatches for the drive chains. Thing is a tank and its like a 30-06, it is the one others compare to. There are a few things that are annoying but those water sucking hatches are the only real flaw.
    loader1.jpg

    I am pretty sure that it is a fitting on the rt hand pump, had to get my son to get the belly plate bolts out.
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • NomadacNomadac Senior Member Posts: 890 Senior Member
    Unions once served a noble purpose, to bring workers out of poverty and dangerous, slave-like working conditions. I no longer see them as performing that mission. Now, they are more like greed-heads and pimps for left-wing politicians. After all, labor unions were started by communists for the most part. It seems like labor unions and Chicago organized crime have a lot in common. Who needs drugs and gambling when they have a stranglehold on the millions of dues paying forced-union employees.

    Agreed, in the early 1900's they served a purpose. If you watched the recent series Men who made America on the Nat Geo ch. you could see why unions were needed as they really took advantage of the workers. But now days many non-union businesses realize that providing good pay and benefits will result in good workers.

    Having seen much in businesses with unions and the ridiculous demands for workers by unions, they have exceeded their usefulness. Having worked in the Auto Industry I seem so much the UAW has done to harass Mgmt. and the efficiency of production. not to mention drinking on the job, hiding during work hours, having buddies punch you in when you are not there, punching in and then leaving the plant, etc. Not to mention sabotage the quality of the vehicle, etc.

    I called on a Budweiser Plant and had to deal with Pipe fitters, Millwrights and Machinists when trying to make an adjustment to a pc. of equipment that would result in an hour when I could have done it in 5 min. One to remove 2 bolts to remove a cover and another to make an adjustment to a pneumatic valve, etc. First you had to find one, that was on his beer break, then after he removed the two bolts to remove the cover, then you had to find an wait for the other to come off his break, etc.

    Once in contract negotiations with the UAW at the Lordstown Plant, they wanted to have a barber on site so they could get haircuts during working hours. Fortunately it did not pass.

    IMO Government Unions should be outlawed. Elected politicians negotiate the contracts and do not care what the costs to the taxpayers. The Unions contribute to Politicians that will give them what they want which do not truly represent the taxpayers. In Private Businesses if they are not profitable they go out of business. The Government just increase taxes to pay for their mistakes.
  • SirGeorgeKillianSirGeorgeKillian Senior Member Posts: 5,458 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    ARE YOU KIDDING ME!!!!!!!!???????? No more Wonder Bread?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! Woooooow, the end of the perfect PB&J sandwich as we know it :tissue:

    One more added by Obama to the unemployment line...
    talladega-nights-the-ballad-of-ricky-bobby-5-1024.jpg&sa=X&ei=wkulUIm8N4_68QTo34GoCw&ved=0CAkQ8wc&usg=AFQjCNF7CuvAhbf7zWQc1FGy5Y78tq5Exw
    Unless life also hands you water and sugar, your lemonade is gonna suck!
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    I'm in love with a Glock
  • LerchessLerchess Senior Member Posts: 550 Senior Member
    Eturn wrote: »
    I am not saying that you're wrong. But that sounds completely backward.

    He is not wrong. I had the same option when I was forced to be in a union - you pay and have representation or you pay and do not get representation. Either way, the DNC gets their share of your wages.

    The problem comes in when management (either public or private) has been fighting the unions for so long that when they can stick it to the unions, they do. No realizing that the unions never suffer - they just pass it on to the workers. I was in a union for 3 years. Never saw a valid reason to give them $600 a year. They got shoddy employees rehired and did nothing for the good ones.
  • rbsivleyrbsivley Senior Member Posts: 1,055 Senior Member
    Eturn wrote: »
    Like, no more snowballs.

    Now hold on there. Don't go missing with the snowballs. They're my favorite.
    Randy

    Rank does not concur privileges. It imposes responsibility. Author unknown
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 4,638 Senior Member
    rbsivley wrote: »
    Now hold on there. Don't go missing with the snowballs. They're my favorite.

    Snowballs!? SNOWBALLS!?!?!? Where's the bleeping TWINKIES?!?!?
    The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me.

    Ayn Rand
  • EturnEturn Member Posts: 317 Member
    Lerchess wrote: »
    He is not wrong. I had the same option when I was forced to be in a union - you pay and have representation or you pay and do not get representation. Either way, the DNC gets their share of your wages.

    The problem comes in when management (either public or private) has been fighting the unions for so long that when they can stick it to the unions, they do. No realizing that the unions never suffer - they just pass it on to the workers. I was in a union for 3 years. Never saw a valid reason to give them $600 a year. They got shoddy employees rehired and did nothing for the good ones.

    How long ago? A lot of laws regarding unions changed between 04 and 09.
    Now hold on there. Don't go missing with the snowballs. They're my favorite.

    I hate coconut. Not the flavor, the texture.
    “Not everyone is willing to embrace liberty; liberty requires not just effort, but risk. Some people choose to delude themselves and see their chains as protective armor.”
  • coolgunguycoolgunguy Senior Member Posts: 6,417 Senior Member
    Lerchess wrote: »
    He is not wrong. I had the same option when I was forced to be in a union - you pay and have representation or you pay and do not get representation. Either way, the DNC gets their share of your wages.

    The problem comes in when management (either public or private) has been fighting the unions for so long that when they can stick it to the unions, they do. No realizing that the unions never suffer - they just pass it on to the workers. I was in a union for 3 years. Never saw a valid reason to give them $600 a year. They got shoddy employees rehired and did nothing for the good ones.


    Same here (WI) at least before Act 10 was passed. In the two years since Act 10 was proposed, we've had to go through several special elections, two sets of recalls, all of our democratic state senators fleeing to other states to avoid voting on (and thereby passing, strict party line vote with repubs holding the majority in both houses) Act 10, the takeover and occupation of the State Capital building for several months (yes, months) and two activist judges authoring injuctions to stop same. The state was required to take union dues out of each state employee's pay check regardless of the employee's status regarding membership. Private unions may be a different story (or not).
    "Bipartisan" usually means that a bigger than normal deception is happening.
    George Carlin
  • EturnEturn Member Posts: 317 Member
    coolgunguy wrote: »
    The state was required to take union dues out of each state employee's pay check regardless of the employee's status regarding membership. Private unions may be a different story (or not).

    I can't speak to public sector unions in other states. Here public sector unions pay no dues.
    “Not everyone is willing to embrace liberty; liberty requires not just effort, but risk. Some people choose to delude themselves and see their chains as protective armor.”
  • robert38-55robert38-55 Senior Member Posts: 3,621 Senior Member
    DurangoKid wrote: »
    I wonder what these cup cakes will taste like when made in China?

    Eggrolls and chopped suey!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    "It is what it is":usa:
  • robert38-55robert38-55 Senior Member Posts: 3,621 Senior Member
    CaliFFL wrote: »
    Snowballs!? SNOWBALLS!?!?!? Where's the bleeping TWINKIES?!?!?

    Looks like I will have to switch over to "Ding Dongs."
    "It is what it is":usa:
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 6,498 Senior Member
    Keep your personal stuff out of this
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • LerchessLerchess Senior Member Posts: 550 Senior Member
    Eturn wrote: »
    How long ago? A lot of laws regarding unions changed between 04 and 09.



    I worked there from '04 - '07. It has changed there, but only due to Gov. Walker :cool2:
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