Home Main Category Second Amendment/Politics

No jobs i found out why

104RFAST104RFAST Senior MemberPosts: 1,281 Senior Member
I fly airplanes for a living, I have been all over the world, but my last trip was a shocker. Queretaro Mexico, located
aprox 100 miles NW Mexico city, its a boom town from American & Canadian companies building manufacturing
facilities on a scale you can't begin to understand until you see it yourself. I'am talking GM,Ford everything from washing machines to a new 300,000 sf Jet Aircraft production facility, I,am talking 100,000 sq ft factories as far as the eye can see, ALL NEW. All you have to do is watch the Large trucks going north on the main highway, it is shocking
the amount of stuff coming out of Queretaro. Queretaro has a population of about 1.1million, NO unemployment,
NO crime to speak of, its clean,no smoke stacks, this is not a dusty, dirty little border town, it is a boom town,
all new clean facilities with many more under construction.WE HAVE BEEN SCREWED. And by the way, a brand new
airport, 11000 ft runway to handle all the cargo planes every night. I,am sure the reasons are many, unions, NAFTA,
can you spell EPA. I have seen this all over the world, except for China, this is the largest scale production I have
seen. It has to STOP. All this Bull S$%^ about stimulating the economy with tax cuts ect is OK but its not the
main issue facing this country, FEDERAL REGULATIONS have killed this Country, I,am sure the Mexicans don't
give a crap about some snail or earth worm before they build a new factory!! We have been lied to by the media
and our leaders in Washington. It would not surprise me to discover they have financial interest in some of these
factories. Check out google earth and see for your self!! I'am pissed!! We need these jobs back in this country, by the
way, you folks in Kansas and Arizona why did Bombardier have to build this aircraft factory in Mexico, were
they having problems getting a building permit?
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Replies

  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,727 Senior Member
    Sorry, but one town in Mexico doesn't give a true utopian view of a regulation-free society. There's other parts of that country that are ratty. Plus, low labor costs along with the permitting costs helps explain relocation. Wonder what the kickbacks are to gov. officials?
    Overkill is underrated.
  • PFDPFD Senior Member Posts: 1,609 Senior Member
    So there isn't really a shortage of jobs, it's just that the US is creating them elsewhere.

    This just may become the next email that "goes around".

    I'm going to forward it to a lot of my friends.

    Thanks. Even if it did depress me.
    That's all I got.

    Paul
  • PFDPFD Senior Member Posts: 1,609 Senior Member
    Sorry, but one town in Mexico doesn't give a true utopian view of a regulation-free society. There's other parts of that country that are ratty.

    I may have missed the point but I don't think it was about how great it is to live in Mexico.
    That's all I got.

    Paul
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,727 Senior Member
    No, but he's saying how great the town is, and how he thinks it's tied to Mexico's lack of regulation. The one town may be good, but the rest of the country (which shares the regulatory environment?)
    Overkill is underrated.
  • JeeperJeeper Senior Member Posts: 2,954 Senior Member
    I didn't take it that way at all. I got the impression from his post that he wasn't saying how great the town is, but rather that he's disgusted that none of those jobs are coming HERE, and that federal regulation (or over-regulation) is one of the primary issues. *That* is something I agree with. We have made it almost prohibitively difficult for new manufacturing jobs to be created or adequately profitable here to compete in this "Global Economy" that we're now in.

    Luis
    Wielding the Hammer of Thor first requires you to lift and carry the Hammer of Thor. - Bigslug
  • 104RFAST104RFAST Senior Member Posts: 1,281 Senior Member
    You don't seem to understand! NONE of these Manfg jobs should have left the country,perhaps someone should ask Sen McCain
    why Bambardier, the largest employer in Arizona instead of expanding facilities in Tucson built a new plant in Mexico to
    manfg there new corporate jet. The last time I was at Bombardier in Arizona it was non union, dont know about now
  • 104RFAST104RFAST Senior Member Posts: 1,281 Senior Member
    BTW I forgot, if you are a married couple under the age of 45 the Mexican Government will GIVE YOU 30,000 $ US towards
    a new home, wonder if we pay for that??
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,727 Senior Member
    Regulation might not be the whole issue. I did some looking: the Mexican city being discussed has an average income of $20,000. Middle class by Mexican standards, but around the poverty line here in the US. The manufacturers aren't just there because of a lax regulatory environment. They're there because the labor is CHEAP! Kinda the same reason that some manufacturers relocate from East Coast states to Mississippi. If you can pay people less and get a comparable product, it makes financial sense.

    It's also why a lot of jobs that were outsourced to China are now going to Vietnam. Cheaper labor is something of consideration. It's not like China is super regulated when it comes to environmental issues, labor laws, and building permits.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,727 Senior Member
    104RFAST wrote: »
    BTW I forgot, if you are a married couple under the age of 45 the Mexican Government will GIVE YOU 30,000 $ US towards
    a new home, wonder if we pay for that??
    Where do you get that from?
    Overkill is underrated.
  • 104RFAST104RFAST Senior Member Posts: 1,281 Senior Member
    The mexican customs handler/ dispatcher that gave us a tour of the new airport facilities, I also spoke with a Mexican Air Force
    Pilots parked next to me. We were watching the Mexican (Blue Angles Types) practice for there airshow in Mexico City later
    this month. I think its there 4th of July on the 25th.
  • 104RFAST104RFAST Senior Member Posts: 1,281 Senior Member
    last time i checked Mississippi was was part of US?
  • FisheadgibFisheadgib Senior Member Posts: 5,797 Senior Member
    Earl, I don't think the OP is boasting about any town in Mexico at all. I believe the point is about the level of jobs and manufacturing that are moving to Mexico being beyond the realization of the average citizen. Actually, it's been like that for a while. I was working for General Dynamics when Clinton got elected and signed NAFTA. Even though NAFTA didn't go into effect until 1-1-94, GD started laying off the harness shop in December of 1992 after it was signed. (the harness shop built the electrical harnesses for the F-16 at the time) Within months if not weeks, the harnesses were comming from Mexico. The facility had already been built and supplied and was waiting to ship. I guess big business was confident enough of NAFTA passing that they built facilities ahead of time to beat the rush. A lot of toxic substances are used in the manufacture of electrical components and the US tries to regulate the handling and use of these toxins.(for good reason) In Mexico, they can just dump the stuff in a creek. GD didn't lower the price of an F-16 because their costs were reduced, they enjoyed greater profits. All the manufacturing moving to other countries is more about greed than regulatory constraints. If you google General Dynamics locations you'll find that they have 29 facilities in Mexico and only 16 in the US. And this is just one company. How reassuring is it to know that NAFTA allowed components in the front line of our nations defense to be manufactured in Mexico and other countries?
    snake284 wrote: »
    For my point of view, cpj is a lot like me
    .
  • 104RFAST104RFAST Senior Member Posts: 1,281 Senior Member
    Why dont we allow them to build our Nukes & Aircraft carriers, save some money there.
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,727 Senior Member
    I think a lot of it has to do with NAFTA. Perot was right: big sucking sound. My point is (which people seem to be overlooking) is that you can't pin this solely on regulation. The labor costs are low there. As I've said, the city being discussed has a median income of $20,000 per household, and it's "middle class" by Mexican standards. That's near to poverty line here in the US. That's why I brought up China: it's got a lax regulatory environment for businesses, and in the last 5 years it's been outsourcing to Vietnam and other countries with similar regulatory environments because of low labor costs.

    You're right, the movement is more about profit than anything else. And with a capitalist system, that's usually the primary motivator: how much money you can make. Marx was right: people are motivated by money. He was wrong about everything else, but he's right that the desire for money (and what comes with it) is a prime motivator for many folks. Some call it greed, others call it self-interest.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • 104RFAST104RFAST Senior Member Posts: 1,281 Senior Member
    I was in Hue City last October, cost me 500,000 Vietnam $ for a guy with a 3 wheel bicycle to take me to the Citadel, If you
    are under 60 you prob don't know what the Citadel is. BTH way that's $7.00 US
  • 104RFAST104RFAST Senior Member Posts: 1,281 Senior Member
    A new home is $50.000 US
    I think a lot of it has to do with NAFTA. Perot was right: big sucking sound. My point is (which people seem to be overlooking) is that you can't pin this solely on regulation. The labor costs are low there. As I've said, the city being discussed has a median income of $20,000 per household, and it's "middle class" by Mexican standards. That's near to poverty line here in the US. That's why I brought up China: it's got a lax regulatory environment for businesses, and in the last 5 years it's been outsourcing to Vietnam and other countries with similar regulatory environments because of low labor costs.

    You're right, the movement is more about profit than anything else. And with a capitalist system, that's usually the primary motivator: how much money you can make. Marx was right: people are motivated by money. He was wrong about everything else, but he's right that the desire for money (and what comes with it) is a prime motivator for many folks. Some call it greed, others call it self-interest.
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,727 Senior Member
    104RFAST wrote: »
    last time i checked Mississippi was was part of US?

    Sorry I missed this. You missed my point: the relocation was from one US state to another due to lower payroll. It cost less to pay the workers, and therefore cost less to make the product.
    104RFAST wrote: »
    I was in Hue City last October, cost me 500,000 Vietnam $ for a guy with a 3 wheel bicycle to take me to the Citadel, If you
    are under 60 you prob don't know what the Citadel is. BTH way that's $7.00 US

    I know what the Citadel is. I do bother to learn about other countries. Thanks for making my point about Vietnamese wages.
    104RFAST wrote: »
    A new home is $50.000 US

    And the subsidy, if it is as much as you say, is actually a subsidized loan that comes out of Mexican payroll taxes.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • 104RFAST104RFAST Senior Member Posts: 1,281 Senior Member
    I'am sure there are some rules ect to qual for this subsidy,I didn't ask, but the Mexican customs guy said it, the other Pilots
    that were there herd him and didn't say he was mistaken, perhaps membership in SEIU helps .
    Sorry I missed this. You missed my point: the relocation was from one US state to another due to lower payroll. It cost less to pay the workers, and therefore cost less to make the product.



    I know what the Citadel is. I do bother to learn about other countries. Thanks for making my point about Vietnamese wages.



    And the subsidy, if it is as much as you say, is actually a subsidized loan that comes out of Mexican payroll taxes.
  • 104RFAST104RFAST Senior Member Posts: 1,281 Senior Member
    I don't think building aircraft is unskilled labor ??
    This has everything to do with labor costs and very little to do with regulations. If people in AZ were willing to work for $2/hr in that factory they would have built it here instead. Regulations CAN have an impact, but they're mostly a minor factor as far as factories and such. Labor costs are the main driver. In a globalized world you need to have specialized skills that demand higher pay or your pay is going down to the lowest common denominator. The global price for unskilled labor is a dollar or two an hour.
  • 104RFAST104RFAST Senior Member Posts: 1,281 Senior Member
    You right, Buy that $1000 LG tv made in South Korea while we pay for our Military to keep North Korea from
    taking over the F%$^&^n place.
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    The problem is US!!! We can not understand as a country that it is impossible to keep all the manufacturing jobs in the US and still be able to buy flat screen TVs for $1,000. Any idiot in the US expects to make $100,000 a year even when they are barely trainined to turn a screwdriver...
  • bruchibruchi Senior Member Posts: 2,581 Senior Member
    37 years ago I spent a couple of months with an uncle roaming the streets of Mexico City every day at his job as a collector for a large metal conglomerate owned by a very wealthy Jewish family, we used to go to their mansion every morning to give grandma a ride to an hospital where she did volunteer work, West Palm Beach, Beverly Hills and Bel Air have nothing on "Lomas de Plateros" where they lived.

    He took me one very early Sunday morning after a night of drinking and carousing to the largest city dump where I saw a dirty, shoeless girl wearing rags guess around 5 years old, she was looking for breakfast in the trash, entire families lived there, also took me to one of the dwellings, a "vecindad" where very poor folks in the city live, a big dirt space in the middle, rows of cubicles on either side, dirt floors, no doors and a row of outhouses at the end with a single faucet for all, "the smell of that place" I promise you no one here would want to live there. 3 years latter I took a Greyhound bus from San Diego to Miami so the trip was via the south, saw very similar places to that "vecindad" on that trip, also hungry kids like the one at the dump, seen all of that in PR as well.

    This days a buddy that travels all over Latin America on business tells me there is a huge economic boom all over Latin America, lots of business from Europe, Asia, the Middle East are setting up shop there, the richest man in the world is from Mexico, someone told me a couple of years ago that a Japanese businessman based in Mexico had all the furniture on his huge place made of $100 bills, they where glued together to make all of it.

    USA is still the richest country in the world, with armed forces equal in troop numbers to those of China (active + reserve) but the world has changed a lot in 37 years, thing is that our view on it remains the same...

    Present unemployment rates:

    Afghanistan 35%
    Spain 20%
    Pakistan 15%
    UK 14%
    Colombia 10.6
    USA 9.8%
    India 9.7%
    France 9.5%
    Egypt 9.4%
    Venezuela 9.1%
    Peru 7.7%
    Russia 7.6%
    Argentina 7.3%
    Philippines 7.2%
    Canada 7.2%
    Chile 7%
    Germany 6%
    Bangladesh 6%
    Mexico 5.5%
    Australia 4.9%
    Japan 4.9%
    China 4.3%
    Malasia 3.2%

    Okay, in many places you don't eat if you don't work, period, so lots of people being employed does not mean they are well paid or have a decent way of life so let's look at it from another angle...

    There are about 7 billion folks in the planet and around 5 billion mobile phones!

    Afghanistan, 29 million folks - 150 thousand mobile phones
    Spain, 50 million folks - 45 million mobile phones
    Pakistan, 170 million folks - 108 million mobile phones
    UK, 61 million folks - 75 million mobile phones
    Colombia, 45 million folks - 40 million mobile phones
    USA, 310 million folks - 302 million mobile phones
    India, 1,2 billion folks - 850 million mobile phones
    France, 65 million folks - 58 million mobile phones
    Egypt, 78 million folks - 71 million mobile phones
    Brazil, 190 million folks - 217 million mobile phones
    Venezuela, 28 million folks - 27 million mobile phones
    Peru, 29 million folks - 27 million mobile phones
    Russia, 142 million folks - 220 million mobile phones
    Argentina, 50 million folks - 40 million mobile phones
    Philippines, 92 million folks - 78 million mobile phones
    Canada, 34 million folks 24 million mobile phones
    Chile, 17 million folks - 21 million mobile phones
    Germany, 81 million folks - 107 million mobile phones
    Bangladesh, 150 million folks - 74 million mobile phones
    Mexico, 112 million folks - 88 million mobile phones
    Australia, 21 million folks - 21 million mobile phones
    Japan, 127 million folks - 107 million mobile phones
    China, 1.3 billion folks - 900 million mobile phones
    Malas1a, 28 million folks - 30 million mobile phones

    I figure that in countries where there are more phones than folks there must be a lot of non resident foreigners, legal and illegal, not counted as part of the population, I wonder how many illegal aliens there are in the US and how many have mobile phones?

    Too many here do a lot of under estimating, that might be our undoing, history has proven this over and over since man's early civilization. Better wake up from the "reality TV" stupor many live in or wait until we have no choice but to go to war big time.

    Folks that can have a mobile phone can buy food, shoes, etc., the world outside the US is not filled with poor shoeless hungry people, lots of folks have internet this days, 78% of North America, 58% of Europe, 36% of Latin America, 23% of Asia, seems to me that the lower that number is the more folks learn to share, word of mouth still works too so every day that passes everyone wants a bigger piece of the cake.
    If this post is non welcomed, I can always give you a recipe for making "tostones".
  • robert38-55robert38-55 Senior Member Posts: 3,621 Senior Member
    Interesting data. the cells phone are made over seas!!!! heck let me repharase that,,,"What isn't made overseas now?" I have know since 2005 that there isn't an over abundant supply of jobs in the USA.... the jobs starting disappearing in the USA around the late 1970's IIRC.....
    "It is what it is":usa:
  • robert38-55robert38-55 Senior Member Posts: 3,621 Senior Member
    We are not going to get any straight answers out of our politicians or Washington, D.C. Until we do like Teach always says: "Throw the bums out"
    "It is what it is":usa:
  • orchidmanorchidman Senior Member Posts: 8,301 Senior Member
    bruchi wrote: »
    37 years ago I spent a couple of months with an uncle roaming the streets of Mexico City every day at his job as a collector for a large metal conglomerate owned by a very wealthy Jewish family, we used to go to their mansion every morning to give grandma a ride to an hospital where she did volunteer work, West Palm Beach, Beverly Hills and Bel Air have nothing on "Lomas de Plateros" where they lived.

    He took me one very early Sunday morning after a night of drinking and carousing to the largest city dump where I saw a dirty, shoeless girl wearing rags guess around 5 years old, she was looking for breakfast in the trash, entire families lived there, also took me to one of the dwellings, a "vecindad" where very poor folks in the city live, a big dirt space in the middle, rows of cubicles on either side, dirt floors, no doors and a row of outhouses at the end with a single faucet for all, "the smell of that place" I promise you no one here would want to live there. 3 years latter I took a Greyhound bus from San Diego to Miami so the trip was via the south, saw very similar places to that "vecindad" on that trip, also hungry kids like the one at the dump, seen all of that in PR as well.

    This days a buddy that travels all over Latin America on business tells me there is a huge economic boom all over Latin America, lots of business from Europe, Asia, the Middle East are setting up shop there, the richest man in the world is from Mexico, someone told me a couple of years ago that a Japanese businessman based in Mexico had all the furniture on his huge place made of $100 bills, they where glued together to make all of it.

    USA is still the richest country in the world, with armed forces equal in troop numbers to those of China (active + reserve) but the world has changed a lot in 37 years, thing is that our view on it remains the same...

    Present unemployment rates:

    Afghanistan 35%
    Spain 20%
    Pakistan 15%
    UK 14%
    Colombia 10.6
    USA 9.8%
    India 9.7%
    France 9.5%
    Egypt 9.4%
    Venezuela 9.1%
    Peru 7.7%
    Russia 7.6%
    Argentina 7.3%
    Philippines 7.2%
    Canada 7.2%
    Chile 7%
    Germany 6%
    Bangladesh 6%
    Mexico 5.5%
    Australia 4.9%
    Japan 4.9%
    China 4.3%
    Malasia 3.2%

    Okay, in many places you don't eat if you don't work, period, so lots of people being employed does not mean they are well paid or have a decent way of life so let's look at it from another angle...

    There are about 7 billion folks in the planet and around 5 billion mobile phones!

    Afghanistan, 29 million folks - 150 thousand mobile phones
    Spain, 50 million folks - 45 million mobile phones
    Pakistan, 170 million folks - 108 million mobile phones
    UK, 61 million folks - 75 million mobile phones
    Colombia, 45 million folks - 40 million mobile phones
    USA, 310 million folks - 302 million mobile phones
    India, 1,2 billion folks - 850 million mobile phones
    France, 65 million folks - 58 million mobile phones
    Egypt, 78 million folks - 71 million mobile phones
    Brazil, 190 million folks - 217 million mobile phones
    Venezuela, 28 million folks - 27 million mobile phones
    Peru, 29 million folks - 27 million mobile phones
    Russia, 142 million folks - 220 million mobile phones
    Argentina, 50 million folks - 40 million mobile phones
    Philippines, 92 million folks - 78 million mobile phones
    Canada, 34 million folks 24 million mobile phones
    Chile, 17 million folks - 21 million mobile phones
    Germany, 81 million folks - 107 million mobile phones
    Bangladesh, 150 million folks - 74 million mobile phones
    Mexico, 112 million folks - 88 million mobile phones
    Australia, 21 million folks - 21 million mobile phones
    Japan, 127 million folks - 107 million mobile phones
    China, 1.3 billion folks - 900 million mobile phones
    Malas1a, 28 million folks - 30 million mobile phones

    I figure that in countries where there are more phones than folks there must be a lot of non resident foreigners, legal and illegal, not counted as part of the population, I wonder how many illegal aliens there are in the US and how many have mobile phones?

    Too many here do a lot of under estimating, that might be our undoing, history has proven this over and over since man's early civilization. Better wake up from the "reality TV" stupor many live in or wait until we have no choice but to go to war big time.

    Folks that can have a mobile phone can buy food, shoes, etc., the world outside the US is not filled with poor shoeless hungry people, lots of folks have internet this days, 78% of North America, 58% of Europe, 36% of Latin America, 23% of Asia, seems to me that the lower that number is the more folks learn to share, word of mouth still works too so every day that passes everyone wants a bigger piece of the cake.


    Ya forgot New Zealand!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Heck, we are just as civilised as all the other countries you listed, we even have electric power now.........oops, gotta go. Its my turn tonight for the lightbulb and I dont want to listen to the grammophone in the dark, it makes it harder to read the titles when they whizz around at 78rpm.
    Still enjoying the trip of a lifetime and making the best of what I have.....
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    "Regulation might not be the whole issue. I did some looking: the Mexican city being discussed has an average income of $20,000. Middle class by Mexican standards, but around the poverty line here in the US."

    That is not quite correct, I work with / around Mexicans all day, and many of them if not most of them would never have left Mexico if they were earning 20 K a year.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,727 Senior Member
    And I'm sure that very few folks are leaving this Mexican City. As I said, it's their middle class. Very few middle class folks leave their country unless there is a much greater economic benefit.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • gunwalkergunwalker Member Posts: 479 Member
    One wag observed that NAFTA is analogous to the "fast and furious" scandal. NAftA was supposed to b e the cure for the illegal alien problem by giving them reason to stay home. "Fand F" was supposed to dry up the arms dealers supplying the cartels. Maybe Pogo was right.
    We do not view the world as it is, but as we perceive it to be.
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    Right now from what I have learned from the many Mexicans I speak to, and the different cultural multi-generational aspect of living there, ancestral homes and all, 20 thousand a year is more upper middle class.

    If you are living on a Family Estate, a few 20 K's can keep them quite well, wealthy lifestyle almost servants etc.. life is really cheap in Mexico if you know how to budget well.

    Lots of upper middle class Mexicans I speak to even ones with upwards of 300 acres of good farm land are here for mere improvement and upkeep money.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • 104RFAST104RFAST Senior Member Posts: 1,281 Senior Member
    San Miguel 40 miles away is mostly retired Americans
  • 104RFAST104RFAST Senior Member Posts: 1,281 Senior Member
    F&F was supposed to make it necessary for BO to ban assault weapons, but someone broke ranks & ATF and dropped a dime on them
    gunwalker wrote: »
    One wag observed that NAFTA is analogous to the "fast and furious" scandal. NAftA was supposed to b e the cure for the illegal alien problem by giving them reason to stay home. "Fand F" was supposed to dry up the arms dealers supplying the cartels. Maybe Pogo was right.
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