Christianity - a religion or a philosophy?

2»

Replies

  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,050 Senior Member
    To answer JerryBobCo's question: I think it's both. It is a religion, as there is deity worship involved, but there's also the whole way of working and deciding what are "Christian" values and actions.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • beartrackerbeartracker Senior Member Posts: 3,116 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    As I said before this thread has nothing to do with beliefs and I will not let it drift into anyone trying to help anyone find the way or it goes poof. And so you know I've read quite a few versions of the Bible and quite a few other religious texts.

    Thanks for your offer brother but I'm already very much a Christian. Found my way a long time ago and have a very happy relationship with God and my Brother Jesus. Now back to the scheduled programing which is simply a PURELY academic and factual discussion about whether Christianity is a religion or a philosophy.

    Sorry, I did not read your post close enough to catch your jest. Appreciate this response. Thank you
  • ghostsniper1ghostsniper1 Banned Posts: 2,645 Senior Member
    Jayhawker wrote: »
    Mine is the King James Version...

    While we're here,as far as the Philosophy/Religion thing, I am a Christian, however, I am no longer a member of an organized religion...
    +1
  • beartrackerbeartracker Senior Member Posts: 3,116 Senior Member
    To answer JerryBobCo's question: I think it's both. It is a religion, as there is deity worship involved, but there's also the whole way of working and deciding what are "Christian" values and actions.

    Very well said, I think you have summed it up nicely and in a few words at that.
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,050 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    In my version he ate bacon cheeseburgers on the Sabbath :tooth:
    Ah, but depending on which Jewish sect one is a part of, mixing of meat and dairy is not necessarily in violation of Kashrut. For some it's a strict interpretation against using the MOTHER'S milk, others a direct cooking of meat in milk.

    As far as pork goes, it could be argued that Jesus, while ethnically Jewish, was not subject to the whole Jewish behavioral rules, what with him being the Messiah and all. Something he proved when Peter had the vision of the big picnic...
    Overkill is underrated.
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,050 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Didn't he also say that Moses was wrong in allowing divorce? It's been a while since I've done this exercise but in my studies I have found enough discrepancies and grey areas to stop considering the Bible the hard rule book many Christians make it out to be...
    He did, because he said that divorce was allowed because of the hardness of hearts of man, and that God never intended for their to be divorce except for certain narrow reasons. Marital infidelity being the chief one.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • beartrackerbeartracker Senior Member Posts: 3,116 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Didn't he also say that Moses was wrong in allowing divorce? It's been a while since I've done this exercise but in my studies I have found enough discrepancies and grey areas to stop considering the Bible the hard rule book many Christians make it out to be...


    Moses was allowed by God because of the condition and lack of understanding on man's part at the time of Moses, having lost in their thinking and hearts who God really was and wanted while in captivity for over 400yrs. Jesus is not allowing the Pharisees a chance to use Moses as an excuses when they should have known the truth in light of all the scripture and revelation God had introduced Israel to for 1500yrs. God allowed Moses to do what he did as God allows Jesus to make and exception allow marital unfaithfulness to be a reason for divorce when God did not want man to divorce at all. There is not a contradiction here.
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 14,834 Senior Member
    Zee wrote: »
    So, is it rules, suggestions, guidelines, or history (as Wambli suggested)?

    For me, the Bible provides guidelines for living a good life....though I won't argue the history angle. I also believe the Bible must be read with a modicum of intelligence and common sense...
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 14,834 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Anyway my whole point is that Bill's statement is very much in line with current higher academic thinking and therefore he is not the twit we would like to make him out to be. As much as I think there are many PhD's out there with not a lick of common sense I am much in the side of Christianity being a philosophy (based on the teachings of Jesus) and Catholisism, Protestantism, Jehova Witnessing and organizations being religion constructed by men. Again pure academia...

    Don't forget the Church of What's Happening Now......
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 20,564 Senior Member
    Jayhawker wrote: »
    For me, the Bible provides guidelines for living a good life....though I won't argue the history angle. I also believe the Bible must be read with a modicum of intelligence and common sense...

    Ok, thanks.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • beartrackerbeartracker Senior Member Posts: 3,116 Senior Member
    + One
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,050 Senior Member
    Jayhawker wrote: »
    For me, the Bible provides guidelines for living a good life....though I won't argue the history angle. I also believe the Bible must be read with a modicum of intelligence and common sense...
    Biblical hermeneutics helps. That's basically reading the Bible in the context it was written.

    For instance, in the Letter to the Church in Laodicea found in the Book of Revelation, the thing about being "neither hot nor cold, but lukewarm" does not correspond with being for or against God. Laodicea had numerous hot mineral springs in the area which were used for healing. The hot water was piped in via aqueducts. It also had no freshwater springs, so the cold freshwater was piped in with aqueduct lines that ran the same route. Sometimes the lines would break, and you'd get lukewarm water that was good for nothing, but its mineral content caused vomiting (spewing out of one's mouth.) The letter said that the church was good for neither spiritual healing (hot water) nor good for supporting the world-weary folks who came for support (cold water.) The area also had an eye salve it was renowned for and a thriving textile industry, which was referenced when the letter said they were blind and naked.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • beartrackerbeartracker Senior Member Posts: 3,116 Senior Member
    Biblical hermeneutics helps. That's basically reading the Bible in the context it was written.

    For instance, in the Letter to the Church in Laodicea found in the Book of Revelation, the thing about being "neither hot nor cold, but lukewarm" does not correspond with being for or against God. Laodicea had numerous hot mineral springs in the area which were used for healing. The hot water was piped in via aqueducts. It also had no freshwater springs, so the cold freshwater was piped in with aqueduct lines that ran the same route. Sometimes the lines would break, and you'd get lukewarm water that was good for nothing, but its mineral content caused vomiting (spewing out of one's mouth.) The letter said that the church was good for neither spiritual healing (hot water) nor good for supporting the world-weary folks who came for support (cold water.) The area also had an eye salve it was renowned for and a thriving textile industry, which was referenced when the letter said they were blind and naked.

    You have done your study, a lot of people are not into study of the context but tend to jump around. Very astute on your part for knowing the above and it really makes this section of scripture when understood in context have a much deeper application to our lives.
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,050 Senior Member
    I was helped by my brother: he's a seminary graduate and clued me into hermeneutics. We've had some discussions about what stuff actually references. The whole Laodicea thing didn't make sense to me: God would rather me be against him (cold) than a weak follower (lukewarm)? Doesn't fit with the rest of the theology.

    Plus my Pastor is really good with this stuff, too. He's pointed out that with letters and other forms of scripture, one need to see who it was written to before one claims the promises therein. For example, if a general's battle plan against a city is to march around the city once a day for 6 days, then 7 times for the seventh day, blow trumpets, and shout - he might ought to be fired. That was a promise and a plan to Gideon. Not to modern folks.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • beartrackerbeartracker Senior Member Posts: 3,116 Senior Member
    Yes, Joshua and Israel had a plan God gave them and it is not for modern folks, in fact our promises are even greater but in another way. Sounds like you have a good brother and Pastor and you have obviously been blessed by having both of them in your life. Really awesome.
  • 5280 shooter II5280 shooter II Senior Member Posts: 3,923 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    From a technical perspective he is correct. This exact question was answered for me by a close friend who holds a PhD in World Religions from Oxford. And here is the difference, Christianity is a set of beliefs that hold Jesus Christ as the son of God and a Savior of humanity. There is NO formal standard set of rules for Christianity, it is just beliefs and a philosophy of how to conduct your life (be good to others, stay poor, raise the dead when needed, etc.). Catholicism, is a religion. It has sacraments, rules, regulations, revenue generation schemes and a well defined governing structure. You can be a Christian all your life and never set foot in a church and think the Pope is a blubbering hypocritical idiot.

    :that::agree:
    God show's mercy on drunks and dumb animals.........two outa three ain't a bad score!
  • beartrackerbeartracker Senior Member Posts: 3,116 Senior Member
    Christianity, is more than a philosophy, more than a religion, more than keeping rules, more than a way to live, more than good suggestions, and more than a way of viewing the world. It is a relationship with the only divine being whom Jesus introduces us to in a more complete way and who fixed the possibility of having that relationship by mending the distance between us and the Creator by satisfying the demand of the law through His sacrifice on the cross - that we were unable to satisfy, we became lawless and chose to do so, rejecting a relationship with God because we wanted things on our terms which has proved destructive to say the least and history bears that out.

    Paul sums up Christianity putting it above the common natural notions and experiences of man, and above the definitions formed and constructed by men, such as philosophy, religion, keeping rules, way of living, good suggestions, and viewing the world, when he said, "19 For through the law I died to the law, so that I might live to God. 20 I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. 21 I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose." Galatians 2:19-20

    Christianity as taught by Jesus and lived by those who follow him is not of this world, but is transcendent - recognizing that God's nature and power is wholly independent of (and removed from) the material universe. I serve the only eternal being, the Creator of all the material universe and the resurrection of His Son Jesus Christ from the dead and it's reality in space and time is the proof. Christianity is more than religion or Philosophy, it transcends the natural and that is why Paul said the following, "8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them." Ephesians 2:8-10

    "For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive." 1 Corinthians 15:22

    "4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— 6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus." Ephesians 2:4-7

    Christianity is not a mere philosophy or religion and it is not just both of these in human terms and definitions, it is above the human terms attached to these, taking both of these beyond the wisdom, intellect, power and understanding of man and creating a fellowship with man and the Divine, providing for man through Jesus Christ an eternal fellowship with God.
  • bruchibruchi Senior Member Posts: 2,582 Senior Member
    Facts, about 6 billion folks and 1000 religions today in the planet, most every religion with their own "real" God or Gods, Hinduism with some 900 million followers believes there are around 330 million Gods...There's about a billion Catholics, another billion Christians, 1.5 billion Muslims, about 1 billion non believers, less than 400 million Buddhist, etc.

    Everyone believes they are following the "right" God/s and that everyone else simply has the right to be wrong..
    If this post is non welcomed, I can always give you a recipe for making "tostones".
  • JerryBobCoJerryBobCo Senior Member Posts: 6,478 Senior Member
    bruchi wrote: »
    Facts, about 6 billion folks and 1000 religions today in the planet, most every religion with their own "real" God or Gods, Hinduism with some 900 million followers believes there are around 330 million Gods...There's about a billion Catholics, another billion Christians, 1.5 billion Muslims, about 1 billion non believers, less than 400 million Buddhist, etc.

    Everyone believes they are following the "right" God/s and that everyone else simply has the right to be wrong..

    Ok. What's that got to do with the original question????
    Jerry

    Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
  • bruchibruchi Senior Member Posts: 2,582 Senior Member
    JerryBobCo wrote: »
    Ok. What's that got to do with the original question????

    Probably nothing but is always good and smart to have some clear perspective on any topic one is discussing.
    If this post is non welcomed, I can always give you a recipe for making "tostones".
  • drsfefadrsfefa Member Posts: 405 Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Now to really make it all more complicated in today's Christianity Jesus as the Son of God is considered an actual deity. We need to remember the neat Trinity that was conveniently invented to reconcile the fact that 3 individial entities God (the father), Jesus and the Holy Spirit are all ONE God. This is a concept espoused by many but not all Christians throughout history. Many Christian churches have flat out forgotten all about Dad and only deal with Jesus as their selected divinity.

    That's why it is simpler to use the academic perspective that assumes Jesus was a nice Jewish boy with some neat ideas that caught on with a bunch of folks.

    :that:

    Well said.
    Responsible CCW is a lifetime commitment to Avoidance, Deterrence, and De-Escalation.
  • mkk41mkk41 Banned Posts: 1,932 Senior Member
    It's a cult! :wink:
    "There are no victims , only volunteers!"
  • mkk41mkk41 Banned Posts: 1,932 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »

    That's why it is simpler to use the academic perspective that assumes Jesus was a nice Jewish boy with some neat ideas that caught on with a bunch of folks.

    Having been sentenced by my father to 6yrs at 2 Roman Catholic grade schools , I was taught that Jesus was a Jew , born in Bethlehem?/Nazereth?/Judea?(I forget exactly where) ,which is somewhere in the middle east. Right? Was a carpenter like his step-dad.

    Yet every picture/portrait/statue I've ever seen shows him as 6ft2", blue-eyed , blond haired with high cheeckbones.

    A carpenter ya say? What did he build? Cookoo clocks? Toboggans? Skis?

    Never met another 6'2" Jew with blond hair , blue eyes and high cheekbones!
    Never met another Jew named Jesus!

    Especially if he was born in the Middle East!

    And every man I ever did meet named Jesus was Hispanic!
    "There are no victims , only volunteers!"
  • bruchibruchi Senior Member Posts: 2,582 Senior Member
    So I got a question, what is better, a philosophy or a religion?

    To me there are all belief systems created by us, there are about a thousand of them this days, not hard to figure out and since long ago you have to wonder if they have done more bad than good, they have been heavily used to control and segregate humanity, even if the original idea for them to be created was not so,.
    If this post is non welcomed, I can always give you a recipe for making "tostones".
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 6,944 Senior Member
    I would call philosophy a blueprint for living your life with the ultimate goal of making your earthly life better (many ways to define that, of course), and religion a blueprint for living your life with the ultimate goal of making your afterlife better. Depending on the deity in charge, this code of conduct may or may not improve the quality of your earthly life, as some gods are all about the sufferin'.

    Christianity has its roots firmly planted in the supernatural. It goes into the "religion" box.
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • bruchibruchi Senior Member Posts: 2,582 Senior Member
    Bigslug wrote: »
    I would call philosophy a blueprint for living your life with the ultimate goal of making your earthly life better (many ways to define that, of course), and religion a blueprint for living your life with the ultimate goal of making your afterlife better. Depending on the deity in charge, this code of conduct may or may not improve the quality of your earthly life, as some gods are all about the sufferin'.

    Christianity has its roots firmly planted in the supernatural. It goes into the "religion" box.



    I like this, lots of smoke and mirrors involved.

    Religions like Christianity sell folks a few things, they been doing so for a very long time, firs they give you an answer to the 2 big questions, "where do we come from and where we go when we leave this place" they also provide you with a guide on how to land in the right spot when you expire and most important, they sell that so important license to have sexual intercourse.

    Some, surely the Catholics, further the notion of women being the property of men, that special day at church the father, a male, "passes" his property, a white dressed unsoiled female to become then the property of her husband to be, another male. It baffles me how so many otherwise intelligent "feminist" females participate very willingly in this!
    If this post is non welcomed, I can always give you a recipe for making "tostones".
2»
Sign In or Register to comment.
Magazine Cover

GET THE MAGAZINE Subscribe & Save

Temporary Price Reduction

SUBSCRIBE NOW

Give a Gift   |   Subscriber Services

PREVIEW THIS MONTH'S ISSUE

GET THE NEWSLETTER Join the List and Never Miss a Thing.

Get the top Guns & Ammo stories delivered right to your inbox every week.