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bowserb
MemberPosts: 277 Member
Federal Guard Dog (tm) ballistics
bowserb
MemberPosts: 277 Member
Hey guys, I'm stumped. The new issue of Handguns magazine arrived in the mail today with reports on the new S&W Performance Center 1911 and the Sig Sauer 1911 Fastback Carry. Two .45 ACP 1911's, the former a 5" barrel and the latter a 4" barrel.
I was interested in the two range reports, because both included results with Federal Guard Dog (tm) 165 grain Home Defense ammo. I've seen some good reports on this round, and the ballistics shown at the Federal website are impressive to me (muzzle velocity 1140 fps, supersonic to 50 yds, 476 ft lbs muzzle energy, 1" bullet drop at 50 yds--if zeroed at 25). I'm thinking of switching to that round in my carry gun, as from what I am reading, it looks like an excellent personal defense round both at home and outside. That's assuming I can get enough cash to buy a suitable quantity for practice...it's really expensive.
Here's my question of any ballistics-knowledgeable people reading here. The tested Sig 1911 has a 4" barrel, and the range report indicated 1102 fps muzzle velocity, just a little less than the 1140 fps Federal claims, but I might expect the 4" barrel to come in a little slower. Then what I can't quite figure: The S&W test reported a muzzle velocity of only 979 fps with the same ammo and a 5" 1911. For both guns, tests were done with several different rounds, but the Guard Dog was the only one common to both.
Am I mistaken, or wouldn't one expect the same round to have a little more velocity coming out of a 5" barrel than a 4-inch?
I was interested in the two range reports, because both included results with Federal Guard Dog (tm) 165 grain Home Defense ammo. I've seen some good reports on this round, and the ballistics shown at the Federal website are impressive to me (muzzle velocity 1140 fps, supersonic to 50 yds, 476 ft lbs muzzle energy, 1" bullet drop at 50 yds--if zeroed at 25). I'm thinking of switching to that round in my carry gun, as from what I am reading, it looks like an excellent personal defense round both at home and outside. That's assuming I can get enough cash to buy a suitable quantity for practice...it's really expensive.
Here's my question of any ballistics-knowledgeable people reading here. The tested Sig 1911 has a 4" barrel, and the range report indicated 1102 fps muzzle velocity, just a little less than the 1140 fps Federal claims, but I might expect the 4" barrel to come in a little slower. Then what I can't quite figure: The S&W test reported a muzzle velocity of only 979 fps with the same ammo and a 5" 1911. For both guns, tests were done with several different rounds, but the Guard Dog was the only one common to both.
Am I mistaken, or wouldn't one expect the same round to have a little more velocity coming out of a 5" barrel than a 4-inch?
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Replies
Take the same barrel and cut it from 5" to 4" and you'll have a predictable drop in velocity, based on the the powder being used. However, 2 different barrels, even from the same company, and I doubt you'll find the same velocity from both of them, even using the same ammo and both barrels being the same length.
http://forums.gunsandammo.com/showthread.php?4073-Guard-Dog-ammo
I might use it, just too many choices.
I thought it shot to the same POI as other .45 ACP; but,
your results my be different.
Incidentally, both guns shot 2" groups in the Handguns magazine range report. The Sig just got there faster!
There may have been other factors different as well---temp, ammo in the sun, altitude who knows what else.
Two different writers in two different locations----it is anybodies guess.
If you can get your hands on the Speer Reloading Manual #14, see the article on pg. 769 "Why Ballisticians Get Gray" by David Andrews. It was an article originally published in Speer #9, ca. 1974 but was re-printed in the 2007 manual, #14, at the urging of Dick Metcalf.
Mr. Andrews compares the velocities of various 357 magnum firearms from short barrel revolvers to rifles. Several handguns with the same barrel length produce 200+ fps differences in velocity. In fact, 9 different revolvers with 6" barrels were tested with average velocities from 1227-1607 fps. That's nearly 400 fps from handguns with the same barrel length. Also, two different S&W M-27's were tested and the shorter 6 1/2" barrel version bested the 8 3/8" barrel model with 125, 140 and 158 gr. test ammo. It probably had tighter tolerances in cylinder, barrel, etc. Who knows?
It also shows 3 different Colt Pythons with 6" barrels that varied by over 200 fps. So a 6" barrel gun can be slower than a 5", or even a 4".
The article deals mostly with revolvers, but runs the gamut from 2 1/2" wheel guns to longer rifle barrels.
I just googled it and …. voila!
http://www.leverguns.com/articles/ballisticians.htm
I shot some of the GuardDog .45 acp today
1. Recoil was pleasant
2. It did moderate energy xfer to a water jug, but, conventional modern HP's do better.
3. I still think it is as good as any other SD ammo.
Life member of the American Legion, the VFW, the NRA and the Masonic Lodge, retired LEO