The Vietnam conflict

DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior MemberPosts: 9,496 Senior Member
I have for many years studied as much as possible about the Vietnam conflict.
I was too young to serve, however, I had relatives that served with distinction.

I always think of that conflict as one that was fought at the whims of politicians and they seemed to minimize the gallantry of our armed forces.

I for one feel that the war was not lost by our armed forces / soldiers, our armed forces had victory after victory, even though the politicians kept crafting rules of engagement making a complete rout or victory over the enemy impossible.

I feel the politicians gave the victory to the enemy on a silver platter.

I believe the conflict in Vietnam was different from any other war or conflict for many reasons, making a clear victory over the enemy even more difficult.

I recently learned the Martha Raye comforted wounded troops in Vietnam as a surgical nurse, and was an honorary Lt. Col. and buried with honors in the S.F. cemetery.

I salute all of our Military, the merchant marine and others that served in many diverse support civilian capacities during the Vietnam conflict.
"There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996

Replies

  • 5280 shooter II5280 shooter II Senior Member Posts: 3,923 Senior Member
    I agree. It's a clear example that "contained war" does not work. Korea was contained in order to prevent a cold war escalation.....Vietnam was a shadow of that. When we take the gloves off, we dominate the battleground......but not having the full support of the nation hurts the morale.....the way we as a nation treated those brave men and women was disgraceful, and hopefully we have learned our lesson by now.....you don't have to agree with the politics of why, but don't you ever shun the soldier who was sent to enforce it.
    God show's mercy on drunks and dumb animals.........two outa three ain't a bad score!
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    My Cousin Hector served in Vietnam with distinction, later he was assigned to the M.P. here stateside transporting Military prisoners via commercial airlines, from detention facilities to court from court to another detention facility while in uniform, and was sometimes heckled by war protesters often interfering with his official duties.

    I was watching a DVD series on the war and a man from European communist country really told off some war protesters, calling them idiots, and telling them how they should live in a communist Country and experience communism in action before siding with them, and how our troops and soldiers were the real heroes, and how no communist state would ever allow them to protest in freedom.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • LMLarsenLMLarsen Senior Member Posts: 8,337 Senior Member
    Karl, the best book I've read about Viet Nam is Vietnam: A History, by Stanley Karnow. It starts with the Chinese invasion a few hundred years ago and ends with the NVA general putting his feet up on the Ambassador's desk in Saigon in '75.

    The book details how the stage for the war was set over the course of the country's history, and is a surprisingly objective read, given that Karnow was a NY Times reporter at the time.
    “A gun is a tool, no better or no worse than any other tool: an axe, a shovel or anything. A gun is as good or as bad as the man using it. Remember that.”

    NRA Endowment Member
  • shushshush Senior Member Posts: 6,259 Senior Member
    A victory you were allowed, forcing them back to the ‘negotiating room’
    ‘The biggest ever bombing campaign by US B-52 bombers took place over Christmas 40 years ago, when the US dropped 20,000 tonnes of explosives on North Vietnam. More than 1,000 Vietnamese died, but the assault may have helped bring about the peace deal signed a month later.’

    North Vietnam, 1972: The Christmas bombing of Hanoi;
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-20719382


    ‘Linebacker II came to an end on 29 December and by 8 January all parties were back in the negotiating room in Paris. The Paris Peace Accords were signed by the end of the month, leading to the release of some US prisoners of war and paving the way for an end to US military involvement in Vietnam.
    The wording of the agreement was almost exactly the same as it had been at the beginning of December - before the Christmas bombing campaign.
    Later, Kissinger would describe the communists as being "on their knees" as a result.’

    cjp wrote: »..... Oh dear God, I've admitted to liking something Limey.I'll never hear the end of this.

    Jayhawker wrote: »...But seriously Shush....

    Big Chief wrote: ».........walking around with a greasy butt ain't no fun, though!

     


     

  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    Thanks, "Vietnam: A History, by Stanley Karnow" is now on My must read list.

    My question is this, is Vietnam any better today ?
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • LMLarsenLMLarsen Senior Member Posts: 8,337 Senior Member
    I've read that they've become very Western and modren, in spite of their Communist government in HCM City.
    “A gun is a tool, no better or no worse than any other tool: an axe, a shovel or anything. A gun is as good or as bad as the man using it. Remember that.”

    NRA Endowment Member
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,990 Senior Member
    According to an interview with a North Vietnamese general on a show on the History Channel, if the bombing (Carpet?) would have continued for a couple more weeks they were ready to capitulate.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • ken55ken55 Senior Member Posts: 781 Senior Member
    DoctorWho wrote: »
    Thanks, "Vietnam: A History, by Stanley Karnow" is now on My must read list.

    My question is this, is Vietnam any better today ?

    Don't know personally - haven't been back and don't have any desire to ever see it again. Here's some irony for you, though - I do some shopping at the Air Force BX near where I live they sell clothing with tags that say "Made in Vietnam."
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 23,939 Senior Member
    Yeah, I think the same, whatever I lost in S. E. Asia; I have no desire to go look for it.
    A Veteran is someone that served in the Military, it does not matter where they served.
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,339 Senior Member
    By the time Linebacker II came along, we had moved our B-52's out of Okinawa and turned the island back over to Japan. The B-52 bases at Guam and Thailand carried the ball on that one. For the 3 years preceeding that mission, we had been launching three B-52's from Okinawa every four hours, 24/7, each one loaded with about 20 tons of bombs. Combined with Thailand and Guam, the three B-52 bases flew 1,000 such missions every month for several years. I did electronics maintenance on some of those missions, fixing last-minute autopilot or compass problems on the way to the target area. The average bomber flew every other day, which was totally beyond the intended mission for strategic bombers that had been pulled out of mothballs and rehabbed to carry conventional weapons instead of nukes. The vast majority of the missions were flown by 1955-production D-model BUFF's that were beyond their designed max airframe hours. With a max bomb load, we had to launch them with minimum fuel, and top off from a tanker on the way to the target- - - - -they couldn't take off with full fuel and bombs!
    Jerry
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • rbsivleyrbsivley Senior Member Posts: 1,055 Senior Member
    I saw on tv where you can go on a tour of the tunnels and compounds from the war. I was in AIT at FLW when Saigon fell.
    Randy

    Rank does not concur privileges. It imposes responsibility. Author unknown
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    From what I have seen, documentaries, and having spoken to Veterans tasked with going into them, those NVA tunnels and bunkers were quite extensive, rivaling anything seen in nature, p-dog towns, gophers etc.....

    Mexicans seem to be keeping up however, with their tunnels into the U.S. being discovered every now and then.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • Vic's ViewpointVic's Viewpoint Senior Member Posts: 1,122 Senior Member
    DoctorWho wrote: »
    From what I have seen, documentaries, and having spoken to Veterans tasked with going into them, those NVA tunnels and bunkers were quite extensive, rivaling anything seen in nature, p-dog towns, gophers etc.....

    Read "The Tunnels of Cu Chi."
    Member formerly known as "vlafrank."
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    RW.....
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • spock71spock71 New Member Posts: 1 New Member
    I am also a huge fan of Martha Ray. She went to hot areas that no other entertainer [that I heard of] would go. Aside from the time she assisted with the wounded while under attack, as you mentioned, I was told she also, with total disregard for her own safety, and no later fanfare, visited the handful of secluded men at our secret base in Laos... Lima 85.

    You are right, Doc, the war was NOT lost by the armed forces, but in my opinion, it was mainly the stinking media! Also, we had no rear echelon! For some reason that I still cannot understand, the Politicians didn't want ground, they only wanted 'bodies'. ? Imagine the morale after losing 20 men taking a hill, that was again infested in a months time... then ignored??
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 10,148 Senior Member
    DoctorWho wrote: »
    Thanks, "Vietnam: A History, by Stanley Karnow" is now on My must read list.

    My question is this, is Vietnam any better today ?

    From what I've heard from vets returning from trips over there as well as a couple of Viet Namese resturrant owners, they're probably better off (at least financially) than they were when I was over there. Pretty miserable then.

    They're slowly losing their Communism, I think, and are an important trading partner with us.
    Not too many problems you can't fix
    With a 1911 and a 30-06
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,339 Senior Member
    Just don't eat the catfish they farm in the Mekong river- - - - -it's basically an open sewer with fish-growing pens along the banks! Check the labels on farm-raised frozen fish to see where it's produced.
    Jerry
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
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