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Do American guns kill Mexicans?

shushshush Senior MemberPosts: 6,259 Senior Member
Tighter Gun Laws in Mexico?

‘Ironically for a country awash with hundreds of thousands of illegal firearms, Mexico has some of the most stringent gun laws in Latin America.’

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-20825061

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:yikes:

It is all down ‘clips’ not guns.

Senator Arturo Zamora of the ruling PRI party introduced the measure to parliament saying;
‘This latest piece of legislation was aimed at stemming the flow of magazines for automatic weapons into the country by closing a longstanding legal loophole.
These magazines pose a threat to society. They are not being brought into country with the aim of protecting people but rather to be used in crimes such as extortion, kidnapping and murder.’



‘Last year a US Senate report, submitted by the Democratic senator leading the push for greater gun control, Dianne Feinstein, said as many as 70% of the guns in the hands of the Mexican drug cartels came from the US.
Two years earlier, the number cited had been even higher, at about 90%.’

"The single biggest supplier of firearms to the Mexican criminals is the US government through our sales to the military and the police," argues Robert Farago of the pro-gun online magazine The Truth about Guns.
Those firearms are "fully-automatic assault rifles", says Mr Farago, which "then seep to the cartels. They also have weapons coming in from China and Eastern Europe."

'One particular episode involving US weapons in Mexico has created more tension between the two countries over the issue than any other.'

'Fast and Furious" weapons have turned up in violent crime scenes across Mexico.
For pro-gun commentator Robert Farago, Fast and Furious is an example of where the problem lies.'


[/QUOTE]‘Last year a US Senate report, submitted by the Democratic senator leading the push for greater gun control, Dianne Feinstein, said as many as 70% of the guns in the hands of the Mexican drug cartels came from the US. Government[/QUOTE]
Fixed it for her.:jester:

Replies

  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    Mexico is as corrupt as the day is long. After arresting that Ex-Marine and trying to extort money from his parents, who was finally released after Fox News was going to call for a boycott of tourist going there, they are nothing but a bunch of hypocrites.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • Fat BillyFat Billy Senior Member Posts: 1,813 Senior Member
    Do Mexicans kill Americans with guns supplied by the American government? YES! "We're gonna catch the cartel members". Watch this! DUH! Sing the Mexican Christmas song. "Releasebobbydodd" :cuss: Later,
    Fat Billy

    Recoil is how you know primer ignition is complete.
  • woodsrunnerwoodsrunner Senior Member Posts: 2,725 Senior Member
    Big Chief is pinging on target accurately with what he says, and I am intimately aquainted with Mexico and qualified to pass judgement to some degree. It's a very sad situation and totally out of control. What makes it even worse is the fact that once you get into the rural areas of the Country, you will not find a more sincere and friendly people than Mexicans. Honest and very hard working people who are at present fearful for their and their children's lives. But, the government is so totally corrupt and in bed with the criminal elements that nothing will ever improve until there is a total revolution with untold numbers of deaths occuring. It is a very sad and sickening situation.
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    Hmmmmm- - - - -Rich, I wonder if those folks would be interested in a mutually benefecial alliance with the poeple in this country who share their concerns? It seems the source of the problem is the same on both sides of the border!
    Jerry
  • TurkeyOakTurkeyOak Member Posts: 32 Member
    Sounds like America...the cities are full of corrupt politicians, while once you get into the rural areas you won't find a nicer bunch of people.
  • JeeperJeeper Senior Member Posts: 2,954 Senior Member
    TurkeyOak wrote: »
    Sounds like America...the cities are full of corrupt politicians, while once you get into the rural areas you won't find a nicer bunch of people.

    More and more I am beginning to think that there is a limit to size and mobility and population density beyond which it is impossible to maintain integrity and control of government.

    Perhaps anything larger than a state requires nothing more than a loose coalition for the common defense as necessary in order to avoid the sort of corruption that we are experiencing at the federal level.

    Luis
    Wielding the Hammer of Thor first requires you to lift and carry the Hammer of Thor. - Bigslug
  • 5280 shooter II5280 shooter II Senior Member Posts: 3,923 Senior Member
    "Do American guns kill Mexicans?" Well I don't see much Mexican manufacturing of firearms.....do you?
    God show's mercy on drunks and dumb animals.........two outa three ain't a bad score!
  • BigDanSBigDanS Senior Member Posts: 6,973 Senior Member
    Aguila makes ammo....

    D
    "A patriot is mocked, scorned and hated; yet when his cause succeeds, all men will join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain
    Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
  • CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Senior Member Posts: 12,835 Senior Member
    No, Mexicans kill Mexicans.
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
  • woodsrunnerwoodsrunner Senior Member Posts: 2,725 Senior Member
    Jeeper, I think that you may be on to something and here's why....

    A basic law in wildlife management looks at population densities of a species of wildlife on a given area of land. Land, wheather it's one acre or a square mile or more, has the capacity to support a given number individuals of a specific species, and this is referred to as the land's "Carrying Capacity". Once the carrying capacity is exceeded, something is going to happen to reduce the population back to the natural desired number that the site (land) can support. An example:

    At the present time the black bear population here in north Florida is expanding rapidly, and has reached the maximum density that the land will support in certain areas. So....what's happening? The bears are expanding northward and westward to fill areas where the population is below the carrying capacity of the land. Same principal of what happened in the Colonies and later USA with the human population expanding South and West to fill vast areas nearly void of human populations. On the other hand, small rodents such as field mice and field rats cannot expand great distances like larger animals. So....what happens? They go to war, so to speak, and kill each other off until the population drops to, or below, the carrying capacity! (Or the coyote population expands to help take care of the situation!)

    I think that humans react in the same way, though it is much more complicated with us. It is physically possible for a large city to have a "carrying capacity" capable of taking care of the physical needs and feeding thousands of people per square mile, but when the population reaches these levels people become nervous and edgy and will react accordingly. And, the coyote (criminal) population will also expand to "feed" on the weaker members of the population. To those of us who mess around with managing wildlife, a population that exceeds the carrying capacity of the area is a very precarious thing! Something is going to happen to reduce the numbers! I think the same principal applies to us humans, too. I may be wrong....I was once, and my first wife will give you a dissertation on it :yikes:
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,444 Senior Member
    Woodsrunner, what you are saying about the carrying capacity of an area and overcrowding makes sense when applied to humans. When you look at the crime rates, seems like big congested cities have the most violent crime. Part of that is population density; more people to commit crime per unit area. But still, stress levels in cities can contribute to that crime rate. Lots of other factors involved, too.

    Even rats or mice packed into too small an area will turn on each other.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • bruchibruchi Senior Member Posts: 2,581 Senior Member
    shush wrote: »
    Tighter Gun Laws in Mexico?

    ‘Ironically for a country awash with hundreds of thousands of illegal firearms, Mexico has some of the most stringent gun laws in Latin America.’

    Legally yes but it is incredibly easy to get one illegally, same deal applies to the Dominican Republic.
    If this post is non welcomed, I can always give you a recipe for making "tostones".
  • shushshush Senior Member Posts: 6,259 Senior Member
    CHIRO1989 wrote: »
    No, Mexicans kill Mexicans.

    Correct.:up:

    cpj wrote: »
    Sure. Just like Mexican drugs kill Americans.

    Incorrect, Americans who take drugs kill themselves.
  • shushshush Senior Member Posts: 6,259 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    Pssst. Hey Shush. I was making a point...

    I see, sorry.
  • Fat BillyFat Billy Senior Member Posts: 1,813 Senior Member
    If you think Mexicans are deadly check out Taco Bell! :yesno: Later,
    Fat Billy

    Recoil is how you know primer ignition is complete.
  • 5280 shooter II5280 shooter II Senior Member Posts: 3,923 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    Sure. Just like Mexican drugs kill Americans.

    Point taken, but consider this. Mexican meddling in the drug trade has created illicit product that is more dangerous. Their "cutting" the cocaine coming from South America and heroin from SE and SW Asia creates a dangerous substance in the name of product expansion and ensuing profit. 90% of marijuana and crystal meth is actually home-grown, and of much better quality.

    Even with "prescription drugs"....sure you can find Canadian or Mexican Viagra, or heart pills, or whatever...that is not subject to FDA regulation and is therefore a "chancy risk" for a cheaper cost.

    Now, back to the point.....show me a firearm producing plant in Mexico. I've only found Mendoza and Obregon.....neither which produce the AK-47 or M-16 rifles used in the majority of killings by cartel members......THOSE weapons got pilfered from the government and police forces that were supplied by US or the "other guys" initially.

    More and more "fast and furious" guns are turning up now. So you can tell all your Mexican friends that they voted for the guy that gave the cartels the guns that killed their grandmother back home.
    God show's mercy on drunks and dumb animals.........two outa three ain't a bad score!
  • rbsivleyrbsivley Senior Member Posts: 1,166 Senior Member
    Guns ain't the problem with Mexico, drugs are problem with Mexico. Decriminalize pot and take about 40 mil people out of the black market it almost dies.
    Randy

    Rank does not concur privileges. It imposes responsibility. Author unknown

    8 For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God 9 not by works, lest any man should boast.
    Ephesians 2:8-9
  • 5280 shooter II5280 shooter II Senior Member Posts: 3,923 Senior Member
    rbsivley wrote: »
    Guns ain't the problem with Mexico, drugs are problem with Mexico. Decriminalize pot and take about 40 mil people out of the black market it almost dies.

    This is true to a point. It needs to be decriminalized on a Federal level so that interstate transportation is allowed.
    An ounce of MJ in CO: http://www.priceofweed.com/

    According to 5280 magazine, this is half the price of what you will find in St. Louis MO. Supply and demand economics.

    Until then, there will always be a black market. It is Kentucky's number one cash crop, and that kinda skews the numbers you see on that website.

    Colorado already has more marijuana dispensaries than Starbucks coffee shops.....now drive around and notice just how prolific Starbucks is.....yeah, that's a lot of weed getting sold legally, but it's not like everyone is walking around stoned.....so spare the jokes. What ain't a joke is the millions in tax revenue it's brought in.
    God show's mercy on drunks and dumb animals.........two outa three ain't a bad score!
  • EturnEturn Member Posts: 317 Member
    I know it feeds the anti's but if we're honest with ourselves it's not hard to see with our porous borders there is a very vibrant 2 way trade going of drugs and guns going across our southern border. Yes lots of guns are also coming up from the south and stolen from corrupt military's throughout south and central America and probably even ordered directly from overseas, but honestly the easiest way to get many of these firearms is to just pay someone to buy them "legally" in a border state. The odds of getting caught on a straw purchase (technically lying on the form 4473) are virtually non-existent and the drug gangs are already adept at smuggling stuff across the border and even easier going the other way. Yet another advantage of a more secure border.

    You do understand that it really costs much more to buy an illegal select fire AR or Ak than it does to legally buy a semi auto AR or AK don't you?
    “Not everyone is willing to embrace liberty; liberty requires not just effort, but risk. Some people choose to delude themselves and see their chains as protective armor.”
  • EturnEturn Member Posts: 317 Member
    If by legal you really mean guns that were sold by force from the BATFE or guns that were once legally purchased and then stolen from homeowners or otherwise legal gun owners I agree, and if by a lot you really mean about ten percent I agree.
    “Not everyone is willing to embrace liberty; liberty requires not just effort, but risk. Some people choose to delude themselves and see their chains as protective armor.”
  • 5280 shooter II5280 shooter II Senior Member Posts: 3,923 Senior Member
    Hey E, go see clubhouse for a message. Then respond or PM me k?
    God show's mercy on drunks and dumb animals.........two outa three ain't a bad score!
  • 5280 shooter II5280 shooter II Senior Member Posts: 3,923 Senior Member
    Eturn wrote: »
    You do understand that it really costs much more to buy an illegal select fire AR or Ak than it does to legally buy a semi auto AR or AK don't you?

    You also have to understand that US prices are not reflected down south. A $10,000 M-16 only costs about $400 if it came from Nicaragua.....same for an AK-74 from Cuba.....and when you have thousands of dollars in disposable income and buy in bulk......it's not hard to get armed with a few true assault rifles.

    Which brings to light another point.....The US Army pays about $400 for an M-16......yet the semi-auto AR-15 version we can buy cost anywhere from $800-1400.
    God show's mercy on drunks and dumb animals.........two outa three ain't a bad score!
  • wildgenewildgene Senior Member Posts: 1,036 Senior Member
    I have a bit of a different perspective on this. To me the carrying capacity analogy isn't quite right since cities aren't completely independent entities but depend upon flows of resources from wider area. Cities certainly are vulnerable to disruption of these flows, but are inherently stable structures as long as trade continues between rural/agricultural areas and urban/industrial areas. I would argue that cities are necessary for the concentration of wealth. The bigger the city, the greater specialization it can support and the more efficient and wealthy it can become. However this concentration of both wealth and people leads to it's own set of problems. With wealth comes a wider disparity in wealth between those at the top and those at the bottom which can drive social problem. Also, the mere presence of wealth along with the much larger population makes it easier to support criminals and other undesirable elements in society.

    If we take the example of a drug dealer...while there are no doubt drugs in small towns, it is much harder to support large criminal enterprises in areas that have low population densities and those criminal enterprises that do exist are less likely to run into the type of turf wars that develop in many big cities which drive a lot of the crime and violence as there are fewer profits to fight over.

    ...people respond just like rats, too many rats in a cage, violence ensues...
  • woodsrunnerwoodsrunner Senior Member Posts: 2,725 Senior Member
    alpha....I honestly don't see where you have said anything that I didn't say, or at least strongly imply. You simply exercised your somewhat analytical mind expanding on something that was so simply said by wildgene! Thanks, wildgene :worthy:
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    There's an old country-boy solution to that sort of problem. When the corncrib gets so infested with rats that the barn cats can't keep 'em under control, it's time to burn it down and stomp the ones that run out to a bloody pulp. It would work for ghettos, and the fat cats in Washington DC as well.
    Jerry
  • EturnEturn Member Posts: 317 Member
    See Alpha. That doesn't even make sense. Why buy guns legally when you can buy them illegally here in the U.S. at save? When I was living down south you could easily talk to the right people and get the more common handguns for half the market value and black rifles for slightly more than half. It defies all reason to buy guns legally at a higher price than to buy them illegally in the U.S. at a lower price than legal ones and then ship them south of the border.
    “Not everyone is willing to embrace liberty; liberty requires not just effort, but risk. Some people choose to delude themselves and see their chains as protective armor.”
  • EturnEturn Member Posts: 317 Member
    Ya kinda answered your own question didn't ya?
    “Not everyone is willing to embrace liberty; liberty requires not just effort, but risk. Some people choose to delude themselves and see their chains as protective armor.”
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