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Some stuff I've been mulling over in my head.

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  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,798 Senior Member
    steffen19k wrote: »
    For those of you who glossed over and dropped heated one-line replies, however... with an attitude like that, is it any surprise that there is such a large anti-gun movement?

    You have been here long enough to know that we, here, are not a sensitive bunch. I have been chastised, myself, many times over the years, for things I've written, or more often, for things that somebody thought I was trying to say. It's very easy for folks to miss your point in an online forum, whereas they might understand perfectly, face-to-face.

    You shake it off and try to make your point, anyway, for whoever will listen. After all, this is only the Internet, not life, and while much can be learned in these discussions, it's nothing to get your feelings hurt over.
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 8,251 Senior Member
    steffen19k wrote: »
    For those of you who glossed over and dropped heated one-line replies, however... with an attitude like that, is it any surprise that there is such a large anti-gun movement?

    You need more exposure to the other side of the gun control argument to learn where this crankiness comes from. If Mothers Against Drunk Driving operated like Sarah Brady and Difi do, Congress would be full of bills requiring breath testers on every vehicle's ignition, an age-to-horsepower formula ensuring that no one under 30 can have a car with a V8, and background checks on purchases and limits on quantities of alcohol with requirements to notify the local authorities before you have more than three friends over for a beer. We'd probably have a censorship board for advertisement of alcoholic beverages to ensure those ads are not overly persuasive to certain "risk groups", and to ensure that packaging for both booze and soda pop are regulated so they don't resemble one another.

    Guns are just the tip of the iceberg with folks like that. Due to either some faulty cranial wiring or political agenda we have an immense voting block that can't grasp the simple fact that it is PEOPLE that are the problem, NOT guns, NOT cars, NOT booze, and NOT drugs. These are people who's knee-jerk reaction is to blame an object rather than the poor judgment call that led to that object's misuse. The REASON they make us so irritable is that they are driven totally by emotion with little room for rationality anywhere. Some of us actively try to sway them, but accept that it's one of those things that is beyond the skills (and patience) of many.
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,977 Senior Member
    steffen19k wrote: »
    For those of you who glossed over and dropped heated one-line replies, however... with an attitude like that, is it any surprise that there is such a large anti-gun movement?

    It was a joke. Didn't you ever see the movie "Tommy Boy"?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccoVuu_uovw
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • WeatherbyWeatherby Senior Member Posts: 4,953 Senior Member
    steffen19k wrote: »
    I can accept that I have to learn, and I have made up a list of people I am going to continue this discussion with.

    For those of you who glossed over and dropped heated one-line replies, however... with an attitude like that, is it any surprise that there is such a large anti-gun movement?

    I'm not chastising or berating you on this but think you should still keep your discussion open to all.
    It is a heated issue as It is about rights.
    Keep an open mind, think about different scenarios not just for you but others as well.




    When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. When the government fears the people, there is liberty
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,977 Senior Member
    steffen19k wrote: »
    Accuracy of the rifle? If you can put 6 out of 10 (60% ) of your rounds into a man sized target 200 yards away consistently, that's good enough. This whole dime sized patterning Sub MOA stuff is hot dogging and showing off, and it tends to lead to complacency, which is bad in a combat situation.

    Spoken like a man who can't shoot for crap. A 60% success rate....SUCKS! If 60% is good enough for you.............hope you're never on MY team.

    Although.............
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,977 Senior Member
    Accuracy?

    With the right weapon..........

    ICBM_Comparison.jpg

    Not necessary.

    ku-xlarge.jpg
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,977 Senior Member
    steffen19k wrote: »
    If you can put 6 out of 10 (60% ) of your rounds into a man sized target 200 yards away consistently, that's good enough. This whole dime sized patterning Sub MOA stuff is hot dogging and showing off, and it tends to lead to complacency, which is bad in a combat situation.

    WAIT!!!!

    Expecting dime size accuracy leads to complacency!!!??? And accepting a 60% hit ratio DOESN'T ?

    I'm at a loss for words............
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • coolgunguycoolgunguy Senior Member Posts: 6,610 Senior Member
    Zee wrote: »
    WAIT!!!!

    Expecting dime size accuracy leads to complacency!!!??? And accepting a 60% hit ratio DOESN'T ?

    I'm at a loss for words............


    That's sort of what I thought when I saw that...Not sure I could do better, but then I'm not complacent either...:roll2:
    "Bipartisan" usually means that a bigger than normal deception is happening.
    George Carlin
  • bobbyrlf3bobbyrlf3 Senior Member Posts: 2,543 Senior Member
    bisley wrote: »
    Freedom is a big idea, and preserving it does not come without bumps in the road.

    Stolen. This is just too good to pass up.
    Knowledge is essential to living freely and fully; understanding gives knowledge purpose and strength; wisdom is combining the two and applying them appropriately in words and actions.
  • ghostsniper1ghostsniper1 Banned Posts: 2,645 Senior Member
    So I guess I'm a douchebag for thinning the squirrel population this morning with my semi auto .22. Funny thing is that although I COULD have pulled the trigger multiple times per critter, I didnt. Was just nice to let the rifle cycle for me. I'm sorry dude, I don't get your thought process. I'm really trying not to be a dick, but what in the hell is the difference in what's used to hunt or for SD as long as the job gets done?
  • JLDickmonJLDickmon Senior Member Posts: 1,726 Senior Member
    steffen19k wrote: »
    The Semi Autos first purpose, however, is for NATIONAL DEFENSE. If you woke up one morning, and found CNN Reporting an evil horde not 20 miles from your house, then the first weapon you had better be reaching for is semi auto rifle. Preferably in .30 caliber of some kind, but 12 gauge Semi would be an acceptable 2nd choice. (If 7.62 doesn't work well on body armor, 5.56 isn't going to do much better.)

    so this is a defense gun...
    OK.
    http://www.remington.com/products/archived/centerfire/autoloading/model-7400.aspx

    and this is an assault rifle..
    DSCN0247_zps6f683007.jpg


    _zpsb2c433e0.jpg
    Never laugh at your wife's choices.
    You are one of them.
  • coolgunguycoolgunguy Senior Member Posts: 6,610 Senior Member
    Well, I suppose somebody will be along shortly to bring a Hitler comparison, or to throw a 'libtard' into the mix. :roll: Frankly Steffen, Like others here I figure your views are your views, and welcome to them. When it comes time to talk banning a certain style or type of firearm simply because it doesn't fit those views, that is when we part ways.
    "Bipartisan" usually means that a bigger than normal deception is happening.
    George Carlin
  • steffen19ksteffen19k Member Posts: 255 Member
    mythaeus wrote: »
    While I enjoyed the responses of others, this response by Bisley to me is the fundamental idea that you must be basing any of your thinking on when it comes to gun right. That means never ever let yourself fall into the belief that any restriction of a particular use/type of gun is at all fundamentally sound. You need to shift away and disregard any focus on the gun and must focus on the people/users/perpetrator, depending on the context of the discussion, and their actions.

    Al

    I have done my level best to take in as much of the information that the cooler heads (Bisley, Mythaeus and Bigslug, you have definitely earned a debt of gratitude) have been willing to offer me. I thank them for their time and I am grateful for the insights they have provided.

    Furthermore, I can see I do need to apologize for the way I worded my thoughts.

    It was never my intention to piss people off, and I truly thank those who saw my post as what it was: Just someone who was having difficulty identifying where they stood on the matter of firearms.

    Rob.
    Here is everything I know about war: Someone wins, Someone loses, and nothing is ever the same again.
  • KSU FirefighterKSU Firefighter Senior Member Posts: 3,249 Senior Member
    If you are having trouble deciding what your views are, there is no better place to learn from than right here. Very wise people inhabit this forum on a regular basis. Go to the roots of the Constitution, read the Federalist papers, John Locke, decide for yourself where you stand. That is your right. I may or may not agree with you, and, neither of us has the right to impose our will on the other. I choose to own a "black" rifle. Haven't completed it yet, I am on the Johnny Cash plan (One Piece at a Time!) All I ask is that my right to do so not be taken away from me.
    The fire service needs a "culture of extinguishment not safety" Ray McCormack FDNY
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    steffen19k wrote: »
    In Iraq every household was allowed one (1) AK 47 style assault rifle, and 1 magazine.

    Please clear up one question. Were these "AK-47 style" rifles the real thing (full-auto capable) or were they the imitations that are sold here without the happy switch? The NFA rules of 1934 didn't actually ban full auto weapons, they just put an exorbitant tax and some privacy-violating inspection requirements on the purchase of something like the Thompson SMG. That misguided piece of legislation, and subsequent expansions of its requirements prohibiting the manufacture of new automatic weapons for purchase by the general public was the beginning of the incremental assualt on our 2nd. and 4th. Amendment rights by our own government. The purpose for the inclusion of those amendments is becoming more and more obvious as the people who have gotten away with these atrocities have been encouraged to whittle away at more of our rights. Apologists for "reasonable" restrictions of rights such as yourself are the modern-day equivalent of Vladimir Lenin's "useful idiots" who he planned to use to further the cause of communism, and then purge when their complicity in his plans was no longer necessary. Check the Siberian gulag for any evidence that those folks ever existed at all. The people who refuse to study the history of tyranny and learn from the tragedy others have experienced are very prone to repeat the same mistakes that made victims out of the last bunch of gullible victims who accepted their government's benign authority (that turned to tyranny) at face value. Don't take my word for these things- - - -do your own research. An honest examination of the past will allow you to reach the same conclusions that most of us here have- - - - -the government that governs least govern's best. That was one of Thomas Jefferson's guiding principles, and nothing since his time has proved him wrong.
    Jerry
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,798 Senior Member
    steffen19k wrote: »
    It was never my intention to piss people off, and I truly thank those who saw my post as what it was: Just someone who was having difficulty identifying where they stood on the matter of firearms.

    Discussions of this topic have been 'radicalized' by those who want to remove this fundamental right, because their goals cannot be achieved by a moderate approach. Any logical discussion of the topic has to be based on historical fact, and the facts simply do not support their theories. The true believers on their side believe in an ideology that is based on a 'pipe dream,' a utopian society where everyone is nice to each other and all differences are settled reasonably and fairly by some benevolent and just central authority. It's a nice idea that appeals to a lot of folks, but it has never worked for any significant length of time. Even when there have been good kings that were dedicated to taking care of their subjects, they were usually succeeded by a rotten heir who became a tyrant.
  • horselipshorselips Senior Member Posts: 3,628 Senior Member
    Steffen19k - Whenever you are in doubt about any policy, or any interpretation of the Constitution, take Kofi Annon's advice: "If one is going to err, one should err on the side of liberty and freedom." Try never to side with any position or agenda that reduces your own freedoms and choices and enhances the power of the state.
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 7,398 Senior Member
    steffen19k wrote: »
    I have done my level best to take in as much of the information that the cooler heads (Bisley, Mythaeus and Bigslug, you have definitely earned a debt of gratitude) have been willing to offer me. I thank them for their time and I am grateful for the insights they have provided.

    Furthermore, I can see I do need to apologize for the way I worded my thoughts.

    It was never my intention to piss people off, and I truly thank those who saw my post as what it was: Just someone who was having difficulty identifying where they stood on the matter of firearms.

    Rob.

    Difficulty determining where you stand and making blatent broad brush statements about how other people treat concealed carry and self defense while you state that anyone who carrys is a failure or is doing something wrong? Hate to break it to you but in most states that knife you like isnt covered under any permit or legal to conceal, so you are a advocate of breaking the law.

    Next, As to your semi auto comments.

    Who are you to tell me what I can or cannot have? Seriously. It is that simple. I have taken more deer with a flintlock than any other critter with a semi, simple reason, semis are not allowed for hunting in PA except for shotguns, small game and turkey only. I own semis, and I shoot semis, who the heck do you think you are? A lot of us have put the time in in the pro gun side and ya know what? The semi auto crap is just to get the foot in the door. Last time they got it they went for ALL hunting ammo. RE Chuck Schumer and the "cop killer bullet ban". We have been down this road and a little effort on your part would have gone a long way.

    As to the further rambling, when you got to the 60% hit ratio at 200 yards, that was it for me. That is a foolish statement and I feel dumber for having read it. If my kids shot that badly they NEVER would have gone deer hunting. I dont care if the state grants them the priviledge or not. If you can't do it at least a little right, then maybe checkers is your game.
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
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