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Ladder Test - developing hunting load

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  • RazorbackerRazorbacker Senior Member Posts: 4,646 Senior Member
    Johnny reb wrote: »
    Kenton industries are the ones that build them for zeiss. I have a German made divari on it not cheap by any means but I do like quality glass.

    I went to the Kenton site and they actually carry those for my Burris, however both windage and elevation are $330.00. Since I paid about $349.00 for the scope, I think I'll pass for now. But I did bookmark the site. So johnny, do you get both turrets or just elevation? And is this a self installation thing or best to take to an expert.
    Teach your children to love guns, they'll never be able to afford drugs
  • beartrackerbeartracker Senior Member Posts: 3,116 Senior Member
    Nothing like loosing a thread :jester: Hope no one minds me starting a new one when I finish my ladder test Tuesday. :jester: Looks like the only way to clear the other stuff. :angel:
  • RazorbackerRazorbacker Senior Member Posts: 4,646 Senior Member
    Boy we sure did. Sorry, I had it in my empty head we were still on the Big 8 thread.
    Teach your children to love guns, they'll never be able to afford drugs
  • RazorbackerRazorbacker Senior Member Posts: 4,646 Senior Member
    Also Bear, I read that link you posted on the test. It looks to me like it's very exacting but if you do it just right it's a real time and ammo saver. Looking forward to your range report.
    Teach your children to love guns, they'll never be able to afford drugs
  • beartrackerbeartracker Senior Member Posts: 3,116 Senior Member
    No problem, I will just delete the first post info and start a new thread when the time comes. I should have waited until I finished he test before posting. :tooth:
  • beartrackerbeartracker Senior Member Posts: 3,116 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    Look! A squirrel!


    I'm curious as to the results. I've never head of such a method.

    Will see, it will let me know if I want to really use IMR7828 with the 180gr BT. I have done it from time to time when I was not sure of how a powder would do with a certain cartridge, rifle and bullet. Will post the results next week.
  • Johnny rebJohnny reb Member Posts: 675 Senior Member
    Sorry about that my fault apologize for hijacking.
  • beartrackerbeartracker Senior Member Posts: 3,116 Senior Member
    Hey, don't worry about, it is more my fault and I will start it over with a full and complete report like I should have done by waiting till I was completely through.
  • RazorbackerRazorbacker Senior Member Posts: 4,646 Senior Member
    So the Marlin is 1/2 the duo you were going to test against each other? I fondled both rifles side by side at the last gun show I went to and the Marlin was stiffer in the foregrip area. But not by a large margin. And your previous groups lead me to believe it's a non issue. But i would like to hear your overall impressions as part of the range report.
    Teach your children to love guns, they'll never be able to afford drugs
  • beartrackerbeartracker Senior Member Posts: 3,116 Senior Member
    my article explains why the stock is an issue with the Ruger American http://ammoguide.com/?article=pricescorner/130301
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 24,944 Senior Member
    So much for waiting till you have data?

    Is this round two of premature posting?

    Shall we start the thread drift now, or wait a few minutes?

    :-)
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • beartrackerbeartracker Senior Member Posts: 3,116 Senior Member
  • beartrackerbeartracker Senior Member Posts: 3,116 Senior Member
    I am going to do this ladder test, “round robin”, five separate POA, POA1(20,15,10,5), POA2(19,14,9,4), POA3(18,13,8,3), POA4(17,12,7,2), POA5(16,11,6,1). Helps eliminate barrel walking accuracy issues and eases me into my max load.
  • beartrackerbeartracker Senior Member Posts: 3,116 Senior Member
    I will still be in effect doing a ladder test only it will be round robin allowing me to reduce or eliminate the barrel walking but also allows me to ease into the max load which is wise. It will also be like the ladder test in that I will shoot a 4' by 4' cardboard target with 5 different diamond shaped aiming points. Once I do the five groups (that will be plotted during the shooting on an exact replica of the target) at 200yds, I will over lay the targets to pin point my node preferences to determine the load that should be the most accurate. I hope to post results Wednesday or Thursday of next week. :)
  • RazorbackerRazorbacker Senior Member Posts: 4,646 Senior Member
    I am going to do this ladder test, “round robin”, five separate POA, POA1(20,15,10,5), POA2(19,14,9,4), POA3(18,13,8,3), POA4(17,12,7,2), POA5(16,11,6,1). Helps eliminate barrel walking accuracy issues and eases me into my max load.

    I'm confused. With shot one in POA5 and shot 2 in POA4, I thought from your link that you posted that one started with a minimum load and went up slightly with each round fired. Now, if I read it backwards in order it makes sense.
    Teach your children to love guns, they'll never be able to afford drugs
  • beartrackerbeartracker Senior Member Posts: 3,116 Senior Member
    I will tie it all together when I finish the testing and it will make more since when I have pictures of the target. Should post everything by Thursday or Friday of next week.
  • RazorbackerRazorbacker Senior Member Posts: 4,646 Senior Member
    Well I was sure I just wasn't grasping the concept so bring that on 'cause I'd really like to get on board with this if it works for you.
    Teach your children to love guns, they'll never be able to afford drugs
  • beartrackerbeartracker Senior Member Posts: 3,116 Senior Member
    No problem. The only rat in the barn is the powder itself, IMR7828 might be the worst thing I have tried but unless I do I won't know so there will at least be a rat killing one way or the other. :jester:
  • beartrackerbeartracker Senior Member Posts: 3,116 Senior Member
    Due to predicted wind by weather channel test will be shot Wednesday morning.

    file_zps634b312b.jpg

    file_zps76885752.jpg
  • beartrackerbeartracker Senior Member Posts: 3,116 Senior Member
    I blew the round robin by mistakenly shooting the first round #20 (55.6grs) at one target and the second round #15 (57.1grs) at another target. So, I dumped the round robin and started on the second target that I shot #15 and began with #16 then #14 and up to #1 using the same POA.


    The following is my target at 200yds shooting from #16 (56.8grs) up to #1 (61.3grs). On the target below I have grouped the four, four shot groups and numbered them 1,2,3 and 4. Group 1 is (56.8grs to 57.7grs) Group 2 is (58.0grs to 58.9grs) Group 3 is (59.2grs to 60.1grs) (this group having two flyers which were the lower charges of 59.2 and 59.5) Group 4 is (60.4grs to 61.3grs).

    There were no pressure signs on the brass or extraction problems with the top charge of 61.3grs and you will note the brass in the second picture. Group four grouped together well when one considers the charge spread and not any two were loaded the same and velocities were from 2754fps to 2782fps. I will be taking these four charges and loading them in five shot groups and the most accurate of the four five shot groups will of course win the day.

    1b0779b1-73dd-4b90-b4bd-97a3d4dceff5_zps3f61ebb2.jpg


    You will note that Group 4 (which were my top charges) are represented by the top row and the last four cases from right to left.
    file_zps7797b9cb.jpg
  • beartrackerbeartracker Senior Member Posts: 3,116 Senior Member
    The spread of all 16 shots was 10.800" not bad for none of the loads being the same.

    Laddertest4_zpsd2d7cafc.jpg


    Group four spread was also not bad.

    Laddertestsmallestgroup_zpsf4614186.jpg
  • AiredaleAiredale Banned Posts: 624 Senior Member
    What's that little dark mark on all those primers?
    Shadow??
  • beartrackerbeartracker Senior Member Posts: 3,116 Senior Member
    Airedale wrote: »
    What's that little dark mark on all those primers?
    Shadow??

    Shadow
  • beartrackerbeartracker Senior Member Posts: 3,116 Senior Member
    Well, it is all a bust. Quick Load said I would get near 2785fps out of a 22" barrel with the 180gr BT if a near max load of 63.1 was used. Well, it is not a max load although close, but the problem was my Chronograph was in the direct sun at an angle yesterday and it influenced my chronograph saying it was getting 2754-2782fps. So I thought things were great, but I did not use a shade like I have always done at that time in the morning because of the way our range is set up.

    Well I should have used a shade. I went earlier this morning and there was no direct sun light on my chronograph and the the chrony read 169fps slower on the average when I was testing loads that came from the sweet spot in my ladder test. So, I took my 7mm08 and fired my hunting load across the chronograph and it read like it always has 2802fps. Then I thought back to yesterday and realized I did not have my shade up to block the angled sun.

    So in essence, instead of getting like Q/L said 2785fps, I am in reality getting 2616fps on average with the top charge. It shot pretty good today but much to slow. This is not the only time in my load work that Q/L which is just an estimator was way off in fps. Nothing like actually shooting your loads to see how it really works out in real life. This should be a warning that those who are shooting loads from Q/L and assume you are getting the velocities that Q/L says you are and you are not using a chronograph your load might not even be close to what Q/L estimated.

    Q/L makes no one an authority on what a load will do and those who use it to back up some point or prove some argument need to realize they don't really know what they are talking about unless they have shot the load over a chronograph. Just because you can use a program on a computer does not mean you know what you are talking about. I double checked this morning by using a back chronograph and it proved the velocities were over 100fps below Q/L's prediction.

    Below is the target showing how IMR7828 did in my rifle which was not bad but I will be going back to IMR4350 and a few other powders I know give me over 2700fps with the 180gr. Lesson learned that IMR7828 is not a good choice for the 30-06 and that Q/L is not a final word on velocities (which I already knew) and also to shade my chronograph from certain angled sun light - and also fire a few at the end of the day if in doubt over a second chronograph.

    Rejecting7828_zpsa8b2b1d8.jpg
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