What do you think is the best HD long arm?

2

Replies

  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 9,684 Senior Member
    knitepoet wrote: »
    I hope if you ever need it, you remember what's in your hand and it operational necessities are

    That is why I train with everything I have (well, not the CZ .25ACP- that's just for collecting). Specialization is for insects.
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    jbp-ohio wrote: »
    20051230172429_bunny2.jpg

    **** !!!! now I want pancakes served by a bunny, not by the varmint type bunny.....
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • bruchibruchi Senior Member Posts: 2,582 Senior Member
    knitepoet wrote: »
    There is no "right" or "wrong" answer, since I'm seeking your opinion.

    While I respect the power of a 12ga, and have one set up for HD use, it stays in the safe, while an AR stays out in an accessible location.

    Pros of the AR:
    • portability
    • ACCURACY
    • number of rounds available
    • Ease of reloading
    Accuracy is one of the main advantages. I can keep all my rounds inside a sheet of notebook paper well past the distance required for HD. A shotgun with slugs..... not so much, with buckshot? forget about it.

    So, what type of long arm would/do YOU choose for HD?

    edited to add: Besides voting, please post the reasoning behind your vote


    I think that this thinking that shotguns are not accurate is a lot of folklore mixed with urban myth.

    My 12 gauge has a 9 round capacity and will do 6" groups from the bench at 100 yards with regular slugs and iron sights but you do have to use the sights for that. With the same on 3 gun matches shooting FAST I am still to miss any of those 6" steel plates with a single shot they put all over the place anywhere from 10 to 30 yards and they put over 20 on every stage so you got to learn to reload real fast too but it is too long to handle in corridors and "cutting the pie" in small rooms if loved ones are at risk and staying safe behind cover is not an option.

    So I agree, a SHORT AR will do just fine as a "long" arm for self defense, mine is to have BUIS and an Aimpoint on top that will be left on 24/7, the Aimpoint makes it a very fast and accurate tool, add a laser and a flashlight to it.

    I can't use an AR here in Puerto Rico for self defense so a high capacity handgun (extra magazines too) with NIGHT IRON SIGHTS supplemented by a laser/flashlight combo is my choice instead of the long and cumbersome high capacity semiauto shotgun which I also cannot use for self defense, well you are not supposed to.

    Also it is a lot easier to move around with a handgun in confined spaces, the flashlight lets you see what you are shooting at when dark, the laser can aid you hitting the BG from deep cover, I want every advantage I can have in a defense situation.
    If this post is non welcomed, I can always give you a recipe for making "tostones".
  • xLPlushyxLPlushy New Member Posts: 18 New Member
    Personally I have to go with pump shotguns for HD simply because of the fear factor they instill in Mr. BG when I rack one in the chamber with his name on it. For out of the house defense I have to say a rifle of some sort.

    I've got a Mossberg 500A1 with that lovely 24" Slugster barrel and a tacky SightMark reflex sight just to aid in quick target acquisition. That gun will eat ANYTHING I feed it as long as it's not 3.5" shells. Keep the speedfeed stock loaded with 3" triple ought buck and slugs close by. 25 yards and it holds a torso sized pattern and I can group slugs 3-4" at 50 yards or so.

    However I would love to get my hands on one of them sleek and sexy FN Herstal P90's or F2000's for some accurate out of the house defense and they are much shorter than a standard AR so they would be easier to handle in a CQC situation and they maintain accuracy at medium range as well as the AR's do. Personally I'd rather have the F2000 as I live on about 13 acres and have constant issues with both armed and unarmed trespassers on the POSTED property.

    But until I can afford the $2300 beauty, I'll just let my mossy do all the heavy lifting as far HD goes.


    Tapatalked via iPhone
  • rbsivleyrbsivley Senior Member Posts: 1,055 Senior Member
    I voted pump shotgun because that's what I have, Ithaca Deer Slayer police special. I see no need for an AR nor do I want one. If I need an AR around here something is bad wrong.
    Randy

    Rank does not concur privileges. It imposes responsibility. Author unknown
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    I reckon anytime you need a firearm, something has gone " Bad wrong", an AR is still about the handiest long arm you could ask for in a pinch.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • pilotpilot New Member Posts: 25 New Member
    I saw no mention of the Benelli MR1. Would that one be a viable alternative to an AR15?
  • gunrunner428gunrunner428 Senior Member Posts: 1,018 Senior Member
    Viable, but I'd make sure it used AR-15 mags, for instance. Nice to have a quick and bountiful supply for mags available, and parts for eventual repair might also become an issue if it doesn't capture a significant portion of the "black rifle" market here in the States. Too much already-available competition for that to really happen IMO.
  • DrifterDrifter New Member Posts: 22 New Member
    I don't have an AR. I have do have an 11-87, but I choose to go with a riffle / pistol combo that use the same magazines (Marlin 45ACP or 10mm Glock based Mech Tech) for a small yard in a semi-rural neighborhood.

    I don't plan on having to stop a vehicle, but I would like to share the following ...
    And if two magazines of .223 hadn't disabled the other identical vehicle, what could he hope to do with 9mm fire?

    Link to the The Harry Beckwith Incident => http://www.afn.org/~guns/ayoob.html
  • TugarTugar Senior Member Posts: 1,841 Senior Member
    I have an M590, but would really love a few attachments. A flashlight with pressure switch that fits on the bayonet lug. And a folding stock. I'm not a huge fan of the folding stock, but if I had to secure someone while having the shotgun, the much shorter length makes it easier for me and the shotgun to arrive in the room closer to the same time. That seems to get glossed over....they are LONG arms...a pain to maneuver inside a dwelling.

    If I had the cash, I would get a second long arm. Something in carbine style. A lever action 357 would make a great companion to my M28. And the added velocity from the longer carbine barrel would make the magnum more effective. Since Mossberg can't see straight enough to make a pump action carbine.....
    Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
    Winston Churchill
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    Rossi and various manufacturers have made pump action .357 magnum carbines for ages.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • bowserbbowserb Member Posts: 277 Member
    Drifter wrote: »
    I don't have an AR. I have do have an 11-87, but I choose to go with a riffle / pistol combo that use the same magazines (Marlin 45ACP or 10mm Glock based Mech Tech) for a small yard in a semi-rural neighborhood.
    May I ask...what is the Marlin that shoots .45ACP? That sounds interesting, as I've been considering a pistol caliber carbine. Thanks.
    "We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission; which is the stage of the darkest periods of human history." - Ayn Rand
  • bowserbbowserb Member Posts: 277 Member
    Anyone use a 20-gauge pump? My wife wants one...and I wouldn't mind it myself.
    "We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission; which is the stage of the darkest periods of human history." - Ayn Rand
  • sakodudesakodude Senior Member Posts: 3,256 Senior Member
    bowserb wrote: »
    May I ask...what is the Marlin that shoots .45ACP? That sounds interesting, as I've been considering a pistol caliber carbine. Thanks.

    http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=347975822

    Sako
  • bowserbbowserb Member Posts: 277 Member
    sakodude wrote: »
    Thanks. The Marlin Camp Carbine. Discontinued in 1999. I don't suppose my LGS will have any left in stock.
    "We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission; which is the stage of the darkest periods of human history." - Ayn Rand
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    Like knite says, there's no absolute answer, the ideal weapon dependent upon the circumstances.

    To give just one example, a person defending a large property (farm or ranch or other extensive acreage) might be best protected via an AR-type rifle. This is because of the greater range and increased shot capacity.

    But a smaller property such as small home or apartment, especially in a non-rural environment, a shotgun would likely be better.

    Generally, I'd say 12-gauge, either pump or semi.

    Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,081 Senior Member
    Not really... an AR, loaded with good ammo, is more likely NOT to overpenetrate than most shotgun ammo. Clint Smith did some tests in a shoot house built like a real house, and found out that AR ammo loaded with the right bullets (like VMax bullets) would penetrate less than buckshot, which penetrated less than some pistol rounds.

    There's a reason a lot of police entry teams have transitioned away from submachine guns to carbine rifles, and only using a shotgun for forced entry.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 20,564 Senior Member
    Smart ape.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,081 Senior Member
    It all comes from observing the clues, dear boy.
    smart-chimp-xdbbc.jpg
    Overkill is underrated.
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 20,564 Senior Member
    Next thing you know, you'll be using tools.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • BuffcoBuffco Senior Member Posts: 6,244 Senior Member
    M1 carbine.
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 14,962 Senior Member
    xLPlushy wrote: »
    Personally I have to go with pump shotguns for HD simply because of the fear factor they instill in Mr. BG when I rack one in the chamber with his name on it.

    There it is!....I knew we couldn't get through this type of discussion without that cropping up....
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,081 Senior Member
    Jayhawker wrote: »
    There it is!....I knew we couldn't get through this type of discussion without that cropping up....
    Dude.. he posted that 3 months ago...
    Overkill is underrated.
  • KENFU1911KENFU1911 Senior Member Posts: 1,052 Senior Member
    How did this thread dig outta the ground??????
    My idea of a warning shot is when the 2nd bad guy watches his 1st buddy go down....
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 14,962 Senior Member
    Doesn't matter....he said it...ain't my fault somebody dug this mummy up.....
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • horselipshorselips Senior Member Posts: 3,626 Senior Member
    I have 2 long arms kept out, loaded and ready, in my closet by the bed - a Remington 1100 equipped with a red dot sight and tactical flashlight (totally reliable with the loads I have selected for defense -I couldn't care less about hunting.). It has an assault-style pistol grip stock and an extended magazine tube. Right next to it is an AK47 Underfolder. Also fitted with a vertical fore-grip, dot sight, tactical flashlight and laser, all sights zeroed for 50 yards. With the stock folded under, and with the vertical fore-grip, it is supremely compact and maneuverable, far more so even than a comparable Ar15 with a collapsible stock, and even though a bit heavy loaded with 30 rounds, for the few seconds to a minute I'd actually have to wield it in a crisis - not a problem. Recoil is also minimal. It is surprising how stable a platform it really is even with the stock folded. The laser dot doesn't jump around, and accuracy is not an issue. And if I had to shoot around a corner or from behind cover or from a cramped, constricted place, nothing beats a rifle with such a short overall length.
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,616 Senior Member
    A few years ago, I bought a Remington Express Model 870 in 20 gauge, with an 18" IC barrel. I did this because it seemed like the ideal HD weapon for my wife. I still think it is the best suited for a person who has no interest in guns, but does have a willingness to defend their home. Unfortunately, "Mrs. Bisley" never even bothered to test fire it, and probably never will, so I bought a 20" rifled slug barrel and a Burris Fast-Fire red dot, thinking it would be a good knock-about gun for feral hogs. It will regularly group inside 4" at a 100 yards. But, since then, I've acquired an AR in 7mm-08 that I like better for that role, so I may reconfigure the 870 back to a plain-jane 18" shotgun and put the red dot on top of the Redfield, on my 7mm-08 AR, and try it out for snap shooting in a hunting environment. The 20 gauge, with No. 3 buckshot, has a devastating pattern at 15 yards (with the 18" IC barrel), which is about the maximum indoor shot at my house.

    While I think the 20 gauge would be excellent for HD, inside the house, I would personally be completely confident with an AR-15 for that role (for me - not my wife), should I ever acquire a shorter barreled upper for my AR-15. Mine is currently set up as a varmint rifle, with a 20" heavy barrel and 6-18x40 Nikon. With proper ammo, it would still be OK inside the house, with the added capability of being better outside the house, since I live in a rural location.
  • NomadacNomadac Senior Member Posts: 890 Senior Member
    My first choice would be my Winchester Defender .12 ga. pump with 18" bbl., 8 rd. capacity that is loaded with 2 #6 bird shot rds. and 6 rds. of #4 buckshot.
    If I felt I needed a rifle I would choose my Ruger Ranch Rifle that has a Burris 4x12 scope and a laser mounted under the bbl. w/ 30rd. mag.

    Where I live I believe the shotgun would be more than adequate.
  • KurtKurt New Member Posts: 21 New Member
    I would start my reply by first saying: If you are using 12 gauge slugs or buck shot at across the room distances, you are placing your neighbors at great risk from over penetration!

    Both slugs and buck shot have a nasty habit of easily passing through multiple layers of sheet rock. I have seen buck pass through eight layers of wall board and slugs will go trough ten layers with little difficulty. I once was shooting slugs at a 55 gallon drum at over 100 yards and the slugs were leaving holes through both sides. A steel drum is a tough and presents a curved impact surface which promotes ricochet but these plain old-fashioned grooved slugs were punching right through both sides.

    It was great fun because you could shoot and then wait to hear the impact…Boom…clank...and you could see the impact with the naked eye!

    Professional hunters going after leopard load their shotguns with #4 duck loads. The greater number of pellets present a much greater surface area than buck and more than likely, if one is shooting leopards with a shotgun, it is an emergency and the target is very close. An added advantage to #4 is the fact that it may pass through two layers of wall board after a miss but on exiting that second layer, its lethality is dropped to almost zero.

    A well aimed slug fired into a human thorax at 15 feet will no doubt exit and continue to penetrate whatever is in its path with a high degree of lethality. I would limit the use of buck shot to raiding coyotes across the yard and buck shot for enemy suppression across the road. Neither of these situations are what fall into the category “home defense”… unless our government is coming up the road with the intent to disarm us.

    As to your close range accuracy with the 12 gauge: I suggest you try “stabbing” the weapon at your target like a spear before pressing the trigger. Perhaps the installation of a ghost ring and tritium front sight would also help. I suspect all you need is more practice with the shotgun.

    If I were living next door to someone armed only with a rifle or modern magnum handgun for self defense, I would be extremely concerned about stray rounds exiting his house and coming to visit me. Of course there are now specialty home defense loadings for the 223 that are very frangible and limit over penetration. I would shy away from magazines filled with NATO regulation ammo…unless the government is coming down the street to disarm you.
    “The rifle is a weapon. Let there be no mistake about that. It is a tool of power, and thus dependent completely upon the moral stature of its user.”
    Col. Jeff Cooper
  • bowserbbowserb Member Posts: 277 Member
    Kurt wrote: »
    Of course there are now specialty home defense loadings for the 223 that are very frangible and limit over penetration. I would shy away from magazines filled with NATO regulation ammo…unless the government is coming down the street to disarm you.
    Save your Confederate money, boys....
    "We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission; which is the stage of the darkest periods of human history." - Ayn Rand
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