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breamfisher
Posts: 14,114 Senior Member
.308 vs. .30-06 factory deriviatives
breamfisher
Posts: 14,114 Senior Member
Besides the parent case, various other chamberings (which were all probably wildcats to begin with) can be found in the .308 and the .30-06. Strangely, they're not all in the same calibers.
For factory loadings based off the .30-06, you have the .25-06, .270 Winchester, .280 Remington, and .35 Whelen.
Meanwhile based off the .308 you have the .243 Winchester, .260 Remington, 7mm-08 Remington, .338 Federal, and .358 Winchester.
Let me know if I've missed anything.
That's 4 for the .30-06, 5 for the .308. 3 for the .30-06 if you consider the .270 and .280 too close to call. Interesting that the .308's spawned more factory rounds than the .30-06. Also, I find it interesting that the -06 has only one factory loading with a bore larger than .30, and in the sub-.30 bores you have the .25, .27, and .28 (the last two I consider largely interchangeable for hunting, and spawned basically just out of 2 rivals trying to outcompete each other for the same market.) Meanwhile, the .308 has 3 calibers sub-.30, and they really each have their own separate niche, it seems.
So... why did the .308 seem to spawn more successful "offspring" than the .30-06? Why isn't the .25 Souper (.25-08) a factory offering? What about the 6mm Catbird (.243-06), the 6.5-06, and the .338-06? I know the last two are loaded by A-Square, but their presence in regular factory rifles is quite rare.
For factory loadings based off the .30-06, you have the .25-06, .270 Winchester, .280 Remington, and .35 Whelen.
Meanwhile based off the .308 you have the .243 Winchester, .260 Remington, 7mm-08 Remington, .338 Federal, and .358 Winchester.
Let me know if I've missed anything.
That's 4 for the .30-06, 5 for the .308. 3 for the .30-06 if you consider the .270 and .280 too close to call. Interesting that the .308's spawned more factory rounds than the .30-06. Also, I find it interesting that the -06 has only one factory loading with a bore larger than .30, and in the sub-.30 bores you have the .25, .27, and .28 (the last two I consider largely interchangeable for hunting, and spawned basically just out of 2 rivals trying to outcompete each other for the same market.) Meanwhile, the .308 has 3 calibers sub-.30, and they really each have their own separate niche, it seems.
So... why did the .308 seem to spawn more successful "offspring" than the .30-06? Why isn't the .25 Souper (.25-08) a factory offering? What about the 6mm Catbird (.243-06), the 6.5-06, and the .338-06? I know the last two are loaded by A-Square, but their presence in regular factory rifles is quite rare.
Meh.
Replies
― Douglas Adams
I think it's a matter of case capacity combined with the American shooter's preference for 30 caliber or less. For 30 and less, a cartridge based on the 30-06 gets into the over-bore category before one based on the .308 does. Going the other way, it's just the opposite. However, American shooters are just not as 'friendly' toward cartridges larger then 30.
Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
"The Un-Tactical"
Only difference being the 6/6.5 in the .308 Win and the .257/.277 in the .30-06 Springfield.
Make that 6
"The Un-Tactical"
Yeah, recently so to speak, this was my first thought when he mentioned little difference in 27 and 28. If you stick with factory loads the .270 far our shines the .280. Big Green likes pumps and semis. Or at least used to But as I'm sure you know and suspect bream does as well, You can load the .280 up to 7Mag and the AI chasing 7 STW.
not to seem like i have 1/2 you guys knowledge but I'm gonna build me a .280AI, 28" tube, probably a .313 neck, Hart barrel,Winchester or Ruger donor action. So I've researched the daylights out of this. Will probably go with he SAAMI chamber but there is something about that 40% that calls to me.
As far as the difference between .270 and .280... I ran the numbers 1 or 2 crashes ago and posted 'em here in one of the .270 vs. threads. In factory ammo, there's not really that much difference in energy and drop out to 500 or 600 yds.
"The Un-Tactical"
"The Un-Tactical"
How many chamber the .35 Whelen or .358 Winchester?
Current production is a moot point. Companies ebb and flow with the whim of the market. You can only base the comparrison on SAAMI chamberings. Regardless the current production rifles.
Kimber.
Okay buddy, this ain't a contest. Nosler is building the heck out of those AIs. Can't speak to the .338-06 but my research indicates those guys are practically fanatical. And I was re-reading a Hogdon manual today and the pressure difference ain't all that much in .270/.280 but it's there, and again we're talking factory loads. Looking at what you can do with a sturdy bolt rifle, the difference is there.
I don't think most shooters really know what "overbore" is, and you also have the success of the .25-06, which should be overbore if the 6mm and 6.5mm are in that case.
I don't know why they haven't become standard. Maybe popularity is lacking? I think they would be more popular than many of the latest failed attempts. Like the RCM family in particular. Who knows why a company chooses to put their name on one cartridge and not another. You can claim too much overlap, but we reached overlap probably 50-75 years ago!!! Now, it's just about fad.
I wish the 6mm-06, .25 Souper, and 6.5-06 would become SAAMI cartridges and factory chamberings. Just because I thug they would be great cartridges in an of themselves. But, to a handloader, it doesn't really matter. Dies are made for all of them and so are reamers. Just build and load!
The argument that the .25 Souper is no different than a .243 is stupid. There are so many cartridges that are technically the same. Yeah, the 6mm-06 is overbore.......so are a dozen other SAAMI cartridges. Yeah, the .25-06/6.5-06/.270/.280 bunch are very close together, but so what! Look at a loading manual and justify everything in there.
I wish they were legit. Might as well be. A whole bunch of other stupid cartridges are.
Also, serious autoloader development for the 63mm case length pretty much petered out with the Garand and the final Belgian BAR variant, the FN-D. With the 51mm case, we have the AR-10, which everyone currently wants to tweak, tune, massage, and pimp for every purpose one might want a rifle for.
"Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
I was reloading when you were poopin Yellow Grasshopper!!! :yesno:
Actually, it's all good. Some say there's no reason for this or that round because we have that and this! I say things happened for reasons sometime we overlook. There's not a factory loaded hi power rifle cartridge made that isn't capable of getting things done.
And to all those that rib me about the .270, I have three 06 case derivatives, the 06, the .270, and the .280. I may talk more about the .270, but it was my first rifle. Why? Because I was 18 years old and at that time it was the rage in the gun mags. Remember, Jack O was still kickin and every other gun writer wanted to imitate him. So what was the hot item, the .270 Win. I've had the same rifle for almost 47 years, so yeah I talk about it. It served me well. But I'll be the first to admit, if one of my other two would have been first I would be saying the same things about it. But when it comes to grabbing one of those three and taking to the woods, Most of the time the one I grab first is the one closest to the front of the safe that I have ammo for. I can't tell any difference when I pull the trigger on an animal. If I do my part, they all usually fall dead, and dead is dead. So it's all good.
Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
Exactly! Hell, the .224 Weatherby Mag is a SAAMI chambering and it's overbore! The 6mm-06 would beat it from my understanding and do so without the stupid band on the case.
When has sense ever driven the market?
Can anyone say.......270 Winchester? That's about as senseless as they come! The 6.5 and 7mm bullets were already common production. Why create the stupid .277 caliber?
The .270 goes without saying, but at least it's diameter is in between acceptable norms. It's the .25-06 that has me perplexed.
"Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
Then the .25 is between the .24 and the .26 as far as that goes.
What's senseless is arguing with results.
Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
ever hear of "yanking one's chain?"
Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
We really don't have to be...There ain't nothing in North America that can't be killed with a 30-06. Now I have seen a moose or two that would be better suited for a .338, but by and large hunting in North America is not a big bore sport. And I think it has only been the past 20 years or so that we are designing rounds based on "just cause we can" rather than left over Battle rifles and what we need to hunt...
Obviously nothing. What fun is it to let facts get in the way of a good argument?
Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.