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Don't talk to the police

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  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,557 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Jason I believe you are assigning a generality to real complains about law enforcement that is just not there. I'm all for supporting our military and LE officers and have done so over the years gladly! The reality is that abuses of power and stupid behavior is widespread in the system. I was unfortunate enough to experience it myself this past year and posted about it here. There are some police officers that are watching too many cop shows and thinking they are training programs depicting acceptable behavior.

    Unfortunately good cops suffer for it but it has been my experience that them and the system seem reticent to exorcise the guilty and we have all seen whitewashing and coverups to last us a lifetime.

    To net this out when someone complains about LE around her it is not done out of disdain for any of our members. It is done out of frustration with a system that is quickly going out of control.

    I have bias for my career culture, I will admit that and I am trying to keep that out of my responses as much as possible. But when you reported about your experience, you limited the focus of your experience to the specific officer you were misrepresented by and the direct chain of command you dealt with. THAT is fair reporting. Any conclusions drawn with a broader brush about LEOs after reading your story is the ignorant fault of anyone who reads your story and does so.

    But several members like to say things like "The cops/police" and "They..." and "Those...". That vastly generalizes the cop culture. If you have a bad experience, or read about a report of one, focus the fact/opinion to the specific event and individual responsible.
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 17,316 Senior Member
    JasonMPD wrote: »
    I have bias for my career culture, I will admit that and I am trying to keep that out of my responses as much as possible. But when you reported about your experience, you limited the focus of your experience to the specific officer you were misrepresented by and the direct chain of command you dealt with. THAT is fair reporting. Any conclusions drawn with a broader brush about LEOs after reading your story is the ignorant fault of anyone who reads your story and does so.

    But several members like to say things like "The cops/police" and "They..." and "Those...". That vastly generalizes the cop culture. If you have a bad experience, or read about a report of one, focus the fact/opinion to the specific event and individual responsible.



    Well said...too often folks take advantage of an incident in order to indict the profession.
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,798 Senior Member
    JasonMPD wrote: »
    I am not taking offense. I am having a conversation. Moreover, I am pointing out the error in the logic of the previous posts. I'd like to read what you have to say.

    The only point I was attempting to make is that a large percentage of our adult population is too dependent upon a biased media for information on politicians, criminals of all sorts, and law enforcement practices. It is a serious problem in all of these categories (and many others), and is speeding the decline of our individual freedoms. All of our major problems descend from having too much government. Government, by it's nature, will always have corruption because any institution that makes rules has to design them to benefit the majority. There is no way to please everyone, and that is especially so when political opportunists are attempting to enhance their power by dividing public opinion. Our own elected leaders exploit the minor problems that will always exist to a certain extent. With media complicity, they blow them up out of all proportion to reality. They ignore the 'norm,' and turn the aberrations to 'the norm' into major issues, as if the aberrations were actually the norm.

    This is why honest folks end up voting for bad (even traitorous) politicians, and why they distrust the enforcement arms of the government. It is also why they are sometimes too hard in their judgements against policemen. Even knowing that you are being propagandized does not prevent it, because it is so complete that even though you doubt what is being put out there for public consumption, it takes a monumental effort to smoke out the real facts. Most people don't have the time or don't know how to do that. Unfortunately, it does not prevent them from commenting, and actually adding to the misconceptions.
  • JeeperJeeper Senior Member Posts: 2,954 Senior Member
    BAMAAK wrote: »
    I doubt the Patriot act has saved that many lives but that is not the point. It is beyond the point of abuse, it was never meant to spy on everyday Americans and if you think they aren't doing a whole lot more then Snowden has leaked out, I think you are being naive. If you have nothing to hide, keep your curtains open, send me your tax returns, your grades from 1st grade on, your CC #s and they keys to your car. I don't have anything to hide but I still want my privacy. A lot of people died in the last 237+ yrs protecting that right to privacy.

    AMEN!! :beer:

    Luis
    Wielding the Hammer of Thor first requires you to lift and carry the Hammer of Thor. - Bigslug
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,457 Senior Member
    JasonMPD wrote: »
    Y'all are making this to complicated. Either choose to speak to the police or don't. None of this "well if they..." Either do; or don't.

    As a witness why not speak with police? Not doing so--if you are an impartial witness--is a civic tragedy.

    Well, here's the problem. Unless you have a recording device running, any statement you make can be misinterpreted. This is true if the policeman is taking notes, and especially true if he isn't. And if push comes to shove, unless you have that recording, anything the police say you said is the truth; their version of what you said will be taken as the truth, and what you say you really said will be a lie. There is no misunderstanding with a voice recording. If they object to your recording the contact, keep your mouth shut. A cop truly interested in the truth wouldn't care.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    snake284 wrote: »
    Well, there's no guarantees in this world. If you invoke the fifth and you are abused for doing it, if you're really a constitutionalist and give a damn about this country, you will take it to court. If you don't get satisfactory results, you need to appeal that court's decision. If that court doesn't give you the satisfaction you deserve, you need to go to a higher level, and so on and so forth until justice is served, because it is your constitutional right and also your duty as a citizen of this country to try and help insure the Constitution is upheld. One reason tyrants get away with their abuse is because people don't want to rock the boat.

    Don´t forget the Miranda decision, you have the right to remain silent, you have the right to have an attorney present during questioning, invoking these rights is not an admission of guilt, it is based on the axiom that anyone that represents themselves has a fool for an attorney.

    It is expedient to let some time pass before making a statement, due to the effects of adrenaline on cognitive reasoning, similar in some ways to the effects of alcohol, letting time pass and consulting an attorney before making any statements makes perfect sence and getting emergency medical attention supersedes any demands a Law Enforcement Officer can make.

    Many people experience chest pains after any particularly stressful event, sometimes these are psychogenic effects and not cardiac related symptoms, however it is better for a physician to determine this, regardless, no one, no Law enforcement officer / Police officer are qualified to or can deny a patients right to be examined by a physician, even if that person is a hypochondriac, it will not count against them.

    There is no way medically, to determine after the fact with any real certainty if non cardiac related chest pains actually occurred or not, and chest pains whether real or imagined are sufficient to demand a trip to the Emergency room.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
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