Police smell meth, raid home, kill 80-year-old man, find no meth

Big ChiefBig Chief Senior MemberPosts: 32,995 Senior Member
Police smell meth, raid home, kill 80-year-old man, find no meth


Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/10/16/police-smell-meth-raid-home-kill-80-year-old-man-find-no-meth/#ixzz2iNRSN11I
It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
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Replies

  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 4,714 Senior Member
    And the War on the American People, I mean the War on Drugs, continues unabated.
    The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me.

    Ayn Rand
  • jbp-ohiojbp-ohio Senior Member Posts: 9,544 Senior Member
    No no no..... They found a joint in his adult son's bedroom. Tooootally justified.
    "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson
  • KSU FirefighterKSU Firefighter Senior Member Posts: 3,246 Senior Member
    Destroying credibility, one joint at a time. These no knock warrants have got to go.
    The fire service needs a "culture of extinguishment not safety" Ray McCormack FDNY
  • horselipshorselips Senior Member Posts: 3,626 Senior Member
    His adult son should have known better. Ever hear of asset forfeiture for drugs? To endanger his whole family's estate for nothing was outrageous. If one must be a druggie, do it on your own turf, not mom and dad's. I hope he gets arrested and prosecuted. If I were mom, I'd disown the P.O.S.

    Whatever the cops smelled, they certainly smelled something. Maybe dopy Junior was smoking his dope in his bedroom. If that was the case, then the police were justified in crashing his little party. And if he was smoking dope in the house, mommy and daddy could not help but know - that stuff stinks - they should have called the police themselves.

    There are a whole lot of facts here that have not yet come out - and they probably won't until the trial. Until then, we know nothing for sure. Of course, if the L.A.S.O. did screw up, what else is new? Lately, it's been kindova troubled department. Oh well, if they lose in court, fire the deputies involved, cut the widow her check for $50Mil or whatever, and move on to the next debacle.
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 15,047 Senior Member
    LA cops strike again...they're going to have to start painting "kills" on their cars....I wonder how many innocent civilians one has to bump off before one becomes an "ace"
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 4,714 Senior Member
    horselips wrote: »
    His adult son should have known better. Ever hear of asset forfeiture for drugs? To endanger his whole family's estate for nothing was outrageous. If one must be a druggie, do it on your own turf, not mom and dad's. I hope he gets arrested and prosecuted. If I were mom, I'd disown the P.O.S.

    Whatever the cops smelled, they certainly smelled something. Maybe dopy Junior was smoking his dope in his bedroom. If that was the case, then the police were justified in crashing his little party. And if he was smoking dope in the house, mommy and daddy could not help but know - that stuff stinks - they should have called the police themselves.

    There are a whole lot of facts here that have not yet come out - and they probably won't until the trial. Until then, we know nothing for sure. Of course, if the L.A.S.O. did screw up, what else is new? Lately, it's been kindova troubled department. Oh well, if they lose in court, fire the deputies involved, cut the widow her check for $50Mil or whatever, and move on to the next debacle.

    Way to blame the murder victim and his family.

    The cops smelled NOTHING. That was a crappy excuse to justify the killing. The cop's own admission was the weed was found after the fact and WASN'T considered before the home invasion. The pigs blamed the victim the same as you. The only thing the citizen did wrong was failure to pull the trigger and take some home invaders with him. Of course, California doesn't allow its citizens AK variants or 30 round mags filled with black-tipped ammo. That is what awaits ANYONE that kicks in my door. I don't care what color the costume is.
    The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me.

    Ayn Rand
  • RazorbackerRazorbacker Senior Member Posts: 4,646 Senior Member
    CaliFFL wrote: »
    Way to blame the murder victim and his family.

    The cops smelled NOTHING. That was a crappy excuse to justify the killing. The cop's own admission was the weed was found after the fact and WASN'T considered before the home invasion. The pigs blamed the victim the same as you. The only thing the citizen did wrong was failure to pull the trigger and take some home invaders with him. Of course, California doesn't allow its citizens AK variants or 30 round mags filled with black-tipped ammo. That is what awaits ANYONE that kicks in my door. I don't care what color the costume is.

    I don't know about the black tips but I think it's a safe bet that AKs were a part of Fast and Furious, not to mention the full auto version allowed by the USA in each Iraqi household. AND the Muslim Brotherhood in Syria on our dime. The same ones Oblunder says no US citizen needs.

    And if, God forbid, the scenario you described ever does happen, I hope you have the good sense to not let your wife nurse your infant son while standing in the in the doorway. Because there's liable to be some Asian guy out there with an evil sniper rifle, just itching for another notch in his stock and another promotion.
    Teach your children to love guns, they'll never be able to afford drugs
  • 104RFAST104RFAST Senior Member Posts: 1,265 Senior Member
    SS tactics, all in the name of protecting you. Some day the SS will do a "no knock" on the wrong innocent
    person and it will not turn out very well. We live in a police state. [/SIZE]
  • farm boyfarm boy Senior Member Posts: 987 Senior Member
    horselips wrote: »
    His adult son should have known better. Ever hear of asset forfeiture for drugs? To endanger his whole family's estate for nothing was outrageous. If one must be a druggie, do it on your own turf, not mom and dad's. I hope he gets arrested and prosecuted. If I were mom, I'd disown the P.O.S.

    Whatever the cops smelled, they certainly smelled something. Maybe dopy Junior was smoking his dope in his bedroom. If that was the case, then the police were justified in crashing his little party. And if he was smoking dope in the house, mommy and daddy could not help but know - that stuff stinks - they should have called the police themselves.

    There are a whole lot of facts here that have not yet come out - and they probably won't until the trial. Until then, we know nothing for sure. Of course, if the L.A.S.O. did screw up, what else is new? Lately, it's been kindova troubled department. Oh well, if they lose in court, fire the deputies involved, cut the widow her check for $50Mil or whatever, and move on to the next debacle.

    Do you look for ignorant stuff to say on the internet or do you come up with it all by yourself?
    I am afraid we forget sometime that the basic and simple things brings us the most pleasure.
    Dad 5-31-13
  • horselipshorselips Senior Member Posts: 3,626 Senior Member
    farm boy wrote: »
    Do you look for ignorant stuff to say on the internet or do you come up with it all by yourself?

    Like I said, and you obviously missed, there are a lot of facts that have yet to come out. Neither side spills its whole case to the press. But that's OK, you know it all, you didn't even have to be there. A few paragraphs in the newspaper and your verdict is in. Well, guess what - everything you read in the newspaper isn't always true. It isn't always the whole story. Geezus, I hope you never serve on a jury. Anyway, asset forfeiture is a reality. Google it. Get a clue. The rotten kid put his family's estate at risk. And like I ALSO said, the L.A.S.O. could very well have been in the wrong, and if so, the deputies involved deserve to be fired and the county docked the $50Mil. Let me add that if the LEOs are proven to be in the wrong, they should be prosecuted as well as fired.
  • waipapa13waipapa13 Senior Member Posts: 710 Senior Member
    It's a joint, in California, don't think asset forfeiture is on the cards, but, by all means enlighten me.
  • farm boyfarm boy Senior Member Posts: 987 Senior Member
    horselips wrote: »
    Like I said, and you obviously missed, there are a lot of facts that have yet to come out. Neither side spills its whole case to the press. But that's OK, you know it all, you didn't even have to be there. A few paragraphs in the newspaper and your verdict is in. Well, guess what - everything you read in the newspaper isn't always true. It isn't always the whole story. Geezus, I hope you never serve on a jury. Anyway, asset forfeiture is a reality. Google it. Get a clue. The rotten kid put his family's estate at risk. And like I ALSO said, the L.A.S.O. could very well have been in the wrong, and if so, the deputies involved deserve to be fired and the county docked the $50Mil. Let me add that if the LEOs are proven to be in the wrong, they should be prosecuted as well as fired.

    Seriously? A joint? Are you permanently chemically altered too?
    I am afraid we forget sometime that the basic and simple things brings us the most pleasure.
    Dad 5-31-13
  • jbp-ohiojbp-ohio Senior Member Posts: 9,544 Senior Member
    farm boy wrote: »
    Seriously? A joint? Are you permanently chemically altered too?


    The article doesn't say how much pot was found. I was making a joke...........

    However.... if they had found a substantial amount, I'm sure LAPD would have plastered this info all thru the article.
    "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson
  • horselipshorselips Senior Member Posts: 3,626 Senior Member
    farm boy wrote: »
    Seriously? A joint? Are you permanently chemically altered too?

    My chemistry is just fine, thank you, but your reading comprehension has certainly been altered - perhaps by a youthful indulging in controlled substances? If you bothered to read the article you would have seen the police spokesman's comment, “There was a drug operation that was certainly going on in this house.” I admit that I'm not all up on police slang and lingo, but I think it unlikely a mere joint would be described as a DRUG OPERATION...GOING ON...

    Once again, for the record, there is a lot of detail missing from the article, a lot of information not yet released, and to jump to anti-police conclusions at this point is irresponsible. I will not predict the outcome of this ongoing investigation, and you shouldn't either. Keep an open mind and be patient.
  • horselipshorselips Senior Member Posts: 3,626 Senior Member
    waipapa13 wrote: »
    It's a joint, in California, don't think asset forfeiture is on the cards, but, by all means enlighten me.

    You're right, for a joint it's unlikely the state or the federal government would move against the family's estate. My fear was founded in the police spokesman's comment that, “There was a drug operation that was certainly going on in this house.” A DRUG OPERATION implies far more than a joint, and as I have said before, there's a lot of details here yet to be released. A famous case - a multi-million dollar yacht was seized for a single marijuana seed found on board. Many homes, cars, businesses and bank accounts have been forfeited to the government for drug violations. Google it.
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 26,095 Senior Member
    horselips wrote: »
    My chemistry is just fine, thank you, but your reading comprehension has certainly been altered - perhaps by a youthful indulging in controlled substances? If you bothered to read the article you would have seen the police spokesman's comment, “There was a drug operation that was certainly going on in this house.” I admit that I'm not all up on police slang and lingo, but I think it unlikely a mere joint would be described as a DRUG OPERATION...GOING ON...

    Once again, for the record, there is a lot of detail missing from the article, a lot of information not yet released, and to jump to anti-police conclusions at this point is irresponsible. I will not predict the outcome of this ongoing investigation, and you shouldn't either. Keep an open mind and be patient.

    Do you have a clue what meth is made of? Most all of us have the basic chemicals to make a batch, minus the sudafed, in our homes. Got brake cleaner, Coleman lantern fuel, chlorine bleach, and some boxes of wooden matches lying around? Well, guess what; YOU HAVE THE MAKINGS OF A STARTER METH LAB! A good dose of Pinesol on the wood floors has a smell close to the smell of a meth lab. You're reaching far out in protecting the cops on this one. And just so you know, shooting firearms in an active meth lab makes about as much sense as stomping on the triggers personnel land mines, unless you have a death wish.
    If the U.S. Congress was put in charge of the Sahara Desert, there would be a shortage of sand in under six months.



  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 4,714 Senior Member
    The key is not let anyone surprise you. Driveway alarms, motion sensors around the house, and dogs work well.

    Once they are at the house, it isn't difficult to harden the front door to defeat a hand held battering ram. Security cameras to record and upload the event. Purge the sprinklers with "something" other than water. This will disperse a crowd of unwanted people that are loitering on the lawn.

    Now they can call my phone and we can safely discuss what address and what the probable cause is on that rubber-stamped piece of paper. No one has to die for pointing an MP5 at one of my kids.
    The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me.

    Ayn Rand
  • EliEli Senior Member Posts: 3,074 Senior Member
    horselips wrote: »
    A DRUG OPERATION implies far more than a joint, and as I have said before, there's a lot of details here yet to be released.


    Saying that they "smelled chemicals", murdering an an 80 year old, finding pot in the son's room.......no, "A DRUG OPERATION" doesn't imply "far more than a joint", it implies a cover-up.
  • horselipshorselips Senior Member Posts: 3,626 Senior Member
    Eli wrote: »
    Saying that they "smelled chemicals", murdering an an 80 year old, finding pot in the son's room.......no, "A DRUG OPERATION" doesn't imply "far more than a joint", it implies a cover-up.

    You could very well be right. Like I said (again and again and again) there are a lot of details yet to come out. Until then, until this case gets to court, be patient.
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    farm boy wrote: »
    Do you look for ignorant stuff to say on the internet or do you come up with it all by yourself?

    I think that horselips spoke his opinion but he didn't attack you, did he? Well, maybe he got a bit sarcastic about the chemistry thing, but he didn't open the "personal slam" box first -- you did.

    Disagree all you want with the posting's content but stick to the items in the story, such as whether illegal entry was made, whether the guy may have in fact pointed a gun at cops, or whatever. Myself it looks like a big screw-up by the cops and a huge overreaction on their part. At the same time, if a cop gets a gun pointed at him, he's free to fire away as I see it. There could have been major errors on both sides.

    But horse didn't jump on you personally, regardless of whether his opinion is correct. So please do the same, okay? We don't need personal slurs to discredit our discussions here. Leave that to the liberals.

    Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    CaliFFL wrote: »
    Purge the sprinklers with "something" other than water. This will disperse a crowd of unwanted people that are loitering on the lawn.

    The other things you mention are passive and totally legal. But some sort of chemical repellent is not, and can get you deep in legal trouble. It sounds keen but it might be better to focus on the other things you discuss, cameras w. recorders especially.

    Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    If it turns out that the LA cops were out of line, absolutely they need to pay up and some need to be fired and perhaps go to jail, too.

    That being said...

    1. There had to be SOME reason the cops decided to raid this guy's house. I mean, there wasn't this van full of Swat driving up and down the streets while the cops inside maybe tossed a dart at a street map to pick the house. It may not have been a good reason but there had to be SOME reason that house was selected. They didn't say "Here's a nice house. Let's raid this one." at total random. There had to be some factor that led them to think that there was bad stuff going on inside (maybe a bogus lead, poor prior surveillance, etc), but something nevertheless that let them think there was a drug op inside.

    2. Age doesn't mean innocence. I'm 72 and I'm fully capable of nasty illegal acts, were I a druggie.

    3. The guy pointing a pistol and getting shot sounds pretty reasonable. The story from the wife contains an internal contradiction... she says his vision didn't let him realize that they were cops, then she says he didn't point the gun in the first place. I'm thinking that he actually DID point the gun and that maybe the cops blew him away too quickly, but I'd guess that he wasn't just standing or sitting there without any suspicious movement (movement that the cops nevertheless overreacted to?)

    I know it's part of the survivalist mantra to see cops as spawn of satan but I'm guessing that there are extenuating circumstances that haven't yet come out. It will be interesting to see the progress of this case.

    Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
  • FisheadgibFisheadgib Senior Member Posts: 5,679 Senior Member
    So in the past you've been the self appointed "grammar police" and "spelling police" and now you're a self appointed moderator. I believe most of the people on this forum are old enough to own up to their actions and statements weather good or bad, or correct or incorrect. If things get out of hand or inappropriate, I'm confident the real moderators can handle it.
    snake284 wrote: »
    For my point of view, cpj is a lot like me
    .
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 4,714 Senior Member
    samzhere wrote: »
    But some sort of chemical repellent is not, and can get you deep in legal trouble. It sounds keen but it might be better to focus on the other things you discuss, cameras w. recorders especially.

    Mr. Counselor, please provide some statute that forbids chemical repellant used on home invaders.

    If my lawn is crowded with cops that intend on breaching my door, terrorizing my family, killing my dogs, stealing my guns, and destroying my property because they have bad intel or the wrong address, do you think I give a flying at rolling donut what it takes to keep them at bay? I keep reading about these poor bastards getting killed by SWAT raids because they consider defense and NEVER offense. They can't murder you in your bed if they can't get into your house.
    The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me.

    Ayn Rand
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 26,095 Senior Member
    CaliFFL wrote: »
    Mr. Counselor, please provide some statute that forbids chemical repellant used on home invaders.

    If my lawn is crowded with cops that intend on breaching my door, terrorizing my family, killing my dogs, stealing my guns, and destroying my property because they have bad intel or the wrong address, do you think I give a flying at rolling donut what it takes to keep them at bay? I keep reading about these poor bastards getting killed by SWAT raids because they consider defense and NEVER offense. They can't murder you in your bed if they can't get into your house.

    A 50 gallon pressure tank with 5 gallons of pureed fish parts mixed with water and hooked up to a pump and a couple of sprinkler heads would do the trick. That stuff will ferment in the tank and will make a smell that will gag a buzzard of a gut wagon. It's also biodegradable and will really make the grass grow where it hits. Impossible to get the smell out of clothing, though.
    If the U.S. Congress was put in charge of the Sahara Desert, there would be a shortage of sand in under six months.



  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 4,714 Senior Member
    tennmike wrote: »
    A 50 gallon pressure tank with 5 gallons of pureed fish parts mixed with water and hooked up to a pump and a couple of sprinkler heads would do the trick. That stuff will ferment in the tank and will make a smell that will gag a buzzard of a gut wagon. It's also biodegradable and will really make the grass grow where it hits. Impossible to get the smell out of clothing, though.

    Not bad! :up:

    I was thinking more on the lines of powdered habanero peppers diluted in vinegar. It will flow through a cheap Rain Bird sprinkler head without clogging.
    The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me.

    Ayn Rand
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    Fisheadgib wrote: »
    So in the past you've been the self appointed "grammar police" and "spelling police" and now you're a self appointed moderator. I believe most of the people on this forum are old enough to own up to their actions and statements weather good or bad, or correct or incorrect. If things get out of hand or inappropriate, I'm confident the real moderators can handle it.

    Huh? I find it fascinating that you suddenly go into a frenzy of criticizing me when there are a host of other postings where one member has defended another who was being slammed. I sort of missed your feedback during those times.

    Let me get this straight: ANY criticism of ANY other posting needs to be vetted first, or maybe never posted, because if the comment was harsh, the Mods will take care of that? Haw. Not the Mods here -- they let us flail away just so we don't cross the line into things like threats or whatever.

    But you're essentially telling me that I should NOT post ANY criticism of another posting, because if the Mods don't edit it, we need to accept it without commentary? Because that's what you say here.

    I suppose that next time I should PM you to ask permission to say something that criticizes another posting? Or PM the Mods? Don't hold your breath, pal.

    I really don't care much about grammar or syntax unless the person making the mistakes is dissing me, then I figure it's fair game. If there are ESL (English as a second language) people here who don't know the difference between "your" and "you're", I'll let it slide. That "grammarman" stuff is ancient anyway, several years past, and we've mostly given up even joking about it, it's so old. But I'm glad your archival retrieval is working fine, to dig into the morgue of forgotten faves and rehash old news. Zzzzz....

    Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 26,095 Senior Member
    CaliFFL wrote: »
    Not bad! :up:

    I was thinking more on the lines of powdered habanero peppers diluted in vinegar. It will flow through a cheap Rain Bird sprinkler head without clogging.

    Me being me, I'd get much more satisfaction seeing them blowing chunks from what they ate last week. But that's just me.
    If the U.S. Congress was put in charge of the Sahara Desert, there would be a shortage of sand in under six months.



  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    CaliFFL wrote: »
    Mr. Counselor, please provide some statute that forbids chemical repellant used on home invaders.

    I'm no attorney -- I'm just a lowly apartment dweller. But I do know that what are termed "booby traps" are generally illegal in most jurisdictions. Probably okay where you live, so go for it.

    Someone who injects some sort of irritant or other chemical into, as you say, a sprinkler system, then using it on police gathered outside the house can easily be charged with felonious assault on a law enforcement officer under the "booby trap" statutes. The charge might be overdrawn but I certainly wouldn't want to be charged with such and have to spend tons of bucks to prove otherwise, plus a nice jail cell for a few days.

    But the area where you live may likely not have "booby trap" laws or similar statutes. I'm sure you know the legal code at your place, so keen. Generally, however, any sort of "aggressive" type of action taken against LEOs can get someone in hot water. Whereas, other "passive" means (cameras, strong doors, etc) are perfectly okay.

    That's all I was saying. A "fortress mentality" is fine if it's defensive, but if it leans toward the offensive side of actions, care should be taken, is all. 'kay?

    Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
  • EliEli Senior Member Posts: 3,074 Senior Member
    Sam, you seem to be on a kick here lately of not hurting peoples feelings because "they're just voicing their opinions". You seem to think that if it's "just an opinion", that commentary against such is unacceptable.

    Quite often you (as well as horselips) voice opinions that would be more appropriate coming from a semi-**** teenage girl, rather than an adult (I'm assuming fully mentally capable) gun owner.

    Just because it's prefaced with "this is an opinion" (yours, mine, who's ever), doesn't mean that it is unassailable. Someone of my age and overall lack of life accomplishments shouldn't have to tell someone of your age and far reaching list of life accomplishments this......but seriously dude, grow up.
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