Home Main Category Second Amendment/Politics

National reciprocity, felicity or CCW catastrophy ?

DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior MemberPosts: 9,496 Senior Member
HR 288 just passed, I am surprised no one has commented on it yet.
"There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996

Replies

  • JeeperJeeper Senior Member Posts: 2,954 Senior Member
    I think it is at least an attempt to make things better. May need further fine tuning.

    Luis
    Wielding the Hammer of Thor first requires you to lift and carry the Hammer of Thor. - Bigslug
  • jbp-ohiojbp-ohio Senior Member Posts: 10,420 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    I hope it works this time. Every time we get a little closer but I think it'll die in the senate again.


    Chances are nill, so...... :yawn:
    "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson
  • GunnerK19GunnerK19 Senior Member Posts: 1,090 Senior Member
    That's HR 822, not 288 :jester:

    I'm still screwed since I'm in Vermont. No required permit means no permit to show for reciprocity if I'm out of state.
    I'm a Conservative. How conservative? Only Alex P. Keaton has me beat.

    Taurus 605 .357, Ruger .45 Vaquero, Colt frontier commemorative .22 SA, Pietta 1860 .44 snubnose
  • horselipshorselips Senior Member Posts: 3,628 Senior Member
    GunnerK19 wrote: »
    That's HR 822, not 288 :jester:

    I'm still screwed since I'm in Vermont. No required permit means no permit to show for reciprocity if I'm out of state.

    I'm in Arizona - just like Vermont, we enjoy Constitutional Carry -the right to carry a concealed weapon without a permit. However, the state does offer an issued permit which requires an online class, fingerprinting, and the payment of assorted fees to acquire. The benefit to the actual permit is you have something to take with you when you travel to a state with reciprocity, and FFL dealers may process your weapons purchases without the hassle of the NICS call.
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 8,792 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    I hope it works this time. Every time we get a little closer but I think it'll die in the senate again.

    One wonders what BOTH houses of Congress will look like after those screwed by Obamacare have their say in the mid-terms. Easily deciphered reciprocity is something the nation needs, we're just not likely to get it with the current make-up.
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    I enjoyed when a LEO stood up and raised the following objection, how would LEOs in other States verify the validity of CCW permits, after stating his long LE career.

    It made Me want to ask why he felt permit holders posed any danger to LEOs, then I would ask if he was familiar with the NICS system, when they check people for outstanding warrants etc, so if a traffic stop yields no outstanding warrants and an unexpired permit, no problem, right ? Yet this LEO feels that the GAO needs to waste money on a needless study to find out if LE can verify the validity of permits.

    So I guess a State enhanced DL might help with a CCW validity code that pops up when a LEO runs the DL, so if a permit holder commits a crime, it gets entered into the NICS & State enhanced DL and CCW systems and voids the permit.

    It also made Me want to ask if he felt the same way about retired LEOs or the need to verify their retired LE credentials, or are his concerns simply limited to non LEOs ?

    I guess some LEOs just do not like non LE permit holders traveling to other States.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • NomadacNomadac Senior Member Posts: 902 Senior Member
    DoctorWho wrote: »
    HR 288 just passed, I am surprised no one has commented on it yet.

    Could you please provide a link? I did a search for both HR 288 and HR 822 and could not find details on it passed.
  • BigDanSBigDanS Senior Member Posts: 6,992 Senior Member
    GunnerK19 wrote: »
    That's HR 822, not 288 :jester:

    I'm still screwed since I'm in Vermont. No required permit means no permit to show for reciprocity if I'm out of state.

    Get a non resident permit from a friendly state, like Florida.

    http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/NonResidentPermits.pdf
    "A patriot is mocked, scorned and hated; yet when his cause succeeds, all men will join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain
    Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 5,486 Senior Member
    DoctorWho wrote: »
    It made Me want to ask why he felt permit holders posed any danger to LEOs...

    Urban areas in states like NY and California, the CCP holder would be in GRAVE danger from LEOs, not the other way around. A citizen's gun makes cops in gun-hostile states very twitchy. I predict some killings and MANY proned CCP holders. I foresee felony charges for anyone that fails to comply with some obscure law that forbids __________ in one state but not another.

    I like the idea of national reciprocity, but ther will be countless unitended consequences.
    When our governing officials dismiss due process as mere semantics, when they exercise powers they don’t have and ignore duties they actually bear, and when we let them get away with it, we have ceased to be our own rulers.

    Adam J. McCleod


  • BigDanSBigDanS Senior Member Posts: 6,992 Senior Member
    The right to keep and bear arms is a Federal, Constitutionally protected right. The fact that States regulate it to begin with is a travesty of the Founders original intent.

    Since I live in a very gun friendly state, I fear Federal involvement will lead to Federal regulation. I suppose this makes me a Libertarian.

    D
    "A patriot is mocked, scorned and hated; yet when his cause succeeds, all men will join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain
    Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,457 Senior Member
    Well, I'd say it's already been covered by the U.S. Constitution Article IV Section 1:

    Article 4 - The States
    Section 1 - Each State to Honor all Others

    Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State. And the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof.


    If the abundance of idiots in State and Federal office was not so widespread, then they would see that the subject has already been covered. Them fellers that wrote the Constitution were pretty smart, and covered a lot of things that have relevance now. Too bad ignorance of the Constitution is acceptable in Fed and State Government representatives. I doubt most have read the document, or have a clue to it's contents.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • USUFBUSUFB Senior Member Posts: 830 Senior Member
    CaliFFL wrote: »
    Urban areas in states like NY and California, the CCP holder would be in GRAVE danger from LEOs, not the other way around. A citizen's gun makes cops in gun-hostile states very twitchy. I predict some killings and MANY proned CCP holders. I foresee felony charges for anyone that fails to comply with some obscure law that forbids __________ in one state but not another.

    I like the idea of national reciprocity, but ther will be countless unitended consequences.

    There are other issues as well. "Hi cap" magazines anyone? The 12 rd mag in my XD40 is legal in most free states, but California, Illinois, parts of the NE, I'm in deep trouble. Heck, in NY state, unless you're carrying a 1911 or revolver, you're in trouble.

    Don't some states have restrictions on hollow points as well?

    I like the idea of national reciprocity, but there are many issues to deal with before its workable.
    Sometimes, I lie awake in bed at night wondering "Why the heck can't I fall asleep?"
    NRA Life Member
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 8,792 Senior Member
    CaliFFL wrote: »
    Urban areas in states like NY and California, the CCP holder would be in GRAVE danger from LEOs, not the other way around. A citizen's gun makes cops in gun-hostile states very twitchy. I predict some killings and MANY proned CCP holders. I foresee felony charges for anyone that fails to comply with some obscure law that forbids __________ in one state but not another.

    I like the idea of national reciprocity, but ther will be countless unitended consequences.

    This is the "break a few eggs to get the desired omelettes" side of the equation. I say "BRING ON THE UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES!" Would Arizona permit holders travel to California with their 15-round magazines? Yes, they probably would. Would a permit holder from a gun-friendly state get drawn on - or worse, lit up - by a twitchy Chicago PD rookie? Yes, it's possible. Here's the thing though - will California and Chicago be safer overall for your presence? Damn right they will, and it will eventually percolate through the collective consciousness that permit holders are the solution and not the problem.

    We are well over half the country being pretty lenient with allowing its residents to carry. Any way to get us into the gun-free zones and convincing their sheeple that we are not the bogeyman is a start.
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • HondoHondo Member Posts: 320 Member
    GunnerK19,
    Even though you live in Vermont you can get a Florida permit. I know it sounds weird. But when I was in Colorado several people had them as they/we(Fl) had the most reciprocity with other states.
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    FYI, IIRC there is an exclusion rule, you can not use a non resident permit to carry in your own State.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • BurgerBoyBurgerBoy New Member Posts: 12 New Member
    Kentucky is an OC state, without a permit, and I also have a Kentucky CCDW License and it is good in just about every state. Move to Kentucky and live free again.

    We also have our own Homeland Security here:

    KYHomelandSecurity.jpg
    Vietnam Veteran - 1966-1970 USASA
    Carry Pistol, Gen 3 Glock 23
    Gen 3 Glock 19
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 5,486 Senior Member
    BurgerBoy wrote: »
    Kentucky is an OC state, without a permit, and I also have a Kentucky CCDW License and it is good in just about every state. Move to Kentucky and live free again.

    Welcome aboard. I suggest you head over to the club house and give an introduction. :beer:

    I also live in a free state, but I travel a lot for work and I would love to travel in the US and not have to worry about the states that would throw my in a dungeon because I forgot to swap the 16 round mags for the 10 round mags.

    As it is now, I have to thoroughly research every state I'm visiting. Automobile storage, ammo restrictions, OC or CC, special restriction businesses... In two weeks it will be Minnesota and Wisconsin. Both states have some interesting gun laws.

    And then there is the TSA when checking a firearm...
    When our governing officials dismiss due process as mere semantics, when they exercise powers they don’t have and ignore duties they actually bear, and when we let them get away with it, we have ceased to be our own rulers.

    Adam J. McCleod


  • NomadacNomadac Senior Member Posts: 902 Senior Member
    BurgerBoy wrote: »
    Kentucky is an OC state, without a permit, and I also have a Kentucky CCDW License and it is good in just about every state. Move to Kentucky and live free again.

    We also have our own Homeland Security here:

    KYHomelandSecurity.jpg
    BurgerBoy I suggest you recheck:

    KY Permit(s) Honored In:
    Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Colorado, Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New Hampshire, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Vermont, Virginia, West Virginia, Wisconsin, Wyoming.

    KY Permit(s) Not Honored In:
    California, Connecticut, Hawaii, Illinois, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, New York City, Oregon, Rhode Island, Washington, District of Columbia,.
  • BurgerBoyBurgerBoy New Member Posts: 12 New Member
    Here's a KY map that accepts our CCDW. Click on - KY. Nobody would want to go to the - Loser - states that will not accept it.

    http://www.usacarry.com/concealed_carry_permit_reciprocity_maps.html
    Vietnam Veteran - 1966-1970 USASA
    Carry Pistol, Gen 3 Glock 23
    Gen 3 Glock 19
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