Pot vs gun buyers

VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior MemberPosts: 6,550 Senior Member
I read a thread on a different board and it got me thinking.

If you are in CO and smoke pot, you cannot fill out a 4473 truthfully and get a firearm. Line "e" asks if you are a user of any controled substance. Even though legal in CO, it isnt legal federally so you must answer "yes" and be denied, or perjure yourself.
It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
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Replies

  • Big Al1Big Al1 Senior Member Posts: 7,076 Senior Member
    They need to add a line to the form:

    If you answered "YES" to using pot, do you plan on using this firearm to protect your stash??!!
  • 41magnut41magnut Senior Member Posts: 1,162 Senior Member
    This brings to mind another question.

    Many, if not all, employers drug test prospective employees.

    As you said, "legal" or not, test positive for drugs, "Thank you for your interest in our company but .......".

    If you get hired, have an accident at work with injuries, after you've been patched up at the Doctors office, ......... a drug test.

    So, if you are not employable, where did you get the $$$ to buy this firearm?

    What? No, we do not accept checks.
    "The .30-06 is never a mistake." Townsend Whelen :iwo:
  • pjames777pjames777 Senior Member Posts: 1,078 Senior Member
    Local FFL here in Sacramento says he gets a "yes" answer all the time and then the buyer is upset that he can't buy the gun. I'm guessing after they finish their Girl Scout Cookies these yahoos wouldn't hear the knock on the door anyway!
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 15,184 Senior Member
    I read a thread on a different board and it got me thinking.

    If you are in CO and smoke pot, you cannot fill out a 4473 truthfully and get a firearm. Line "e" asks if you are a user of any controled substance. Even though legal in CO, it isnt legal federally so you must answer "yes" and be denied, or perjure yourself.

    No....Form 4473 Line "e" asks if "Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug or any other controlled substance.

    Reading is fundamental.....Moot question....
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • jbp-ohiojbp-ohio Senior Member Posts: 9,596 Senior Member
    Still illegal on a Federal level and form 4473 is a Federal form......
    "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson
  • olesniperolesniper Senior Member Posts: 3,763 Senior Member
    Marijuana smokers don't need access to firearms. That's all we need.........some stoned pot head mistaking his .45 for a bong...........it'll skew the "suicide by gun" statistics.
    Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
    I will fear no evil: For I carry a .308 and not a .270
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 6,550 Senior Member
    Originally Posted by Varmintmist

    I read a thread on a different board and it got me thinking.

    If you are in CO and smoke pot, you cannot fill out a 4473 truthfully and get a firearm. Line "e" asks if you are a user of any controled substance. Even though legal in CO, it isnt legal federally so you must answer "yes" and be denied, or perjure yourself.
    No....Form 4473 Line "e" asks if "Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug or any other controlled substance.

    Reading is fundamental.....Moot question....

    jbp-ohio wrote: »
    Still illegal on a Federal level and form 4473 is a Federal form......

    Reading really is fundamental...

    Whole form PDF http://www.atf.gov/files/forms/download/atf-f-4473-1.pdf
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 6,550 Senior Member
    41magnut wrote: »
    This brings to mind another question.

    Many, if not all, employers drug test prospective employees.

    As you said, "legal" or not, test positive for drugs, "Thank you for your interest in our company but .......".

    If you get hired, have an accident at work with injuries, after you've been patched up at the Doctors office, ......... a drug test.

    So, if you are not employable, where did you get the $$$ to buy this firearm?

    What? No, we do not accept checks.
    That is another queston that has been rambling around in my nut. Are employers going to be forced to take drug users now? The way I understand it is that pot is fat soluable so if one were to use it, it acts like a time release into the body over a period of time. Alchohol washes out in X hours per oz consumed. No idea what pot is.

    So, if employers are forced to take on pot heads, can they restrict them to certain jobs?
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 15,343 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    Good question. A local hospital said a while back they would not hire people who used tobacco products. That's a legal (both state and federal) product, so I assume a company could say the same about weed.
    That is the way I understand it.
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 4,808 Senior Member
    Two words: Private sales.
    The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me.

    Ayn Rand
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    The most essential point is this: If pot smokers can't buy guns, what's David Crosby to do?

    Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 6,550 Senior Member
    CaliFFL wrote: »
    Two words: Private sales.
    If you as a seller have any inclination that the buyer cannot fill a 4473, you cannot sell him a firearm. Just because it is a private sale does not mean you can sell to a felon or other prohibited person. You are liable as the seller.


    This is kind of my take on it. This is kicking the barn door open for the anti's. If private sales go up, private sales may go away. If you cannot legally fill out a 4473 to purchase a firearm, then can you own one legally? If not, is the door open to take yours away? Nothing has changed on the Fed level. CO has a bunch of theoretical tax income, of which they have earmarked most for programs for rehab and to restrict and or combat drug use. They havent been brought into court for being drug kingpins by the sherriff of Podunk Nebraska because he has popped 40 people with CO pot in their cars in his town,,,, yet.
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 23,982 Senior Member
    I have the form filled out for me and I am declared unemployable
    I just sign it.
    A Veteran is someone that served in the Military, it does not matter where they served.
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 15,184 Senior Member
    Reading really is fundamental...

    Whole form PDF http://www.atf.gov/files/forms/download/atf-f-4473-1.pdf

    OK OK....you win...not moot...I'll go stand in the corner now and munch on some crow
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • PFDPFD Senior Member Posts: 1,202 Senior Member
    The way I understand it is that pot is fat soluable so if one were to use it, it acts like a time release into the body over a period of time. Alchohol washes out in X hours per oz consumed. No idea what pot is.

    The difference between a drunk and someone that is high is that the drunk will drive through a stop sign, cause a wreck and kill a bunch of people.

    Someone high on pot will pull up to the stop sign and wait for it to turn green. :tooth:
    That's all I got.

    Paul
  • horselipshorselips Senior Member Posts: 3,628 Senior Member
    As if it was a great leap for a pothead to lie on a federal form. Gimme a break. Anyway, I'm at the point where I really don't care what anybody does. To his own body, or any other consenting body. Now that we're pretty much passed gay marriage, I'm looking forward to the day I can finally, in polygamous delirium, marry the true loves of my life - my refrigerator and my BBQ.
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 23,982 Senior Member
    PFD wrote: »
    The difference between a drunk and someone that is high is that the drunk will drive through a stop sign, cause a wreck and kill a bunch of people.

    Someone high on pot will pull up to the stop sign and wait for it to turn green. :tooth:
    Unless the guy on pot decides to go shoot up a movie theater.
    A Veteran is someone that served in the Military, it does not matter where they served.
  • 41magnut41magnut Senior Member Posts: 1,162 Senior Member
    samzhere wrote: »
    The most essential point is this: If pot smokers can't buy guns, what's David Crosby to do?

    Or Willy?
    "The .30-06 is never a mistake." Townsend Whelen :iwo:
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 4,808 Senior Member
    If you as a seller have any inclination that the buyer cannot fill a 4473, you cannot sell him a firearm. Just because it is a private sale does not mean you can sell to a felon or other prohibited person. You are liable as the seller.


    This is kind of my take on it. This is kicking the barn door open for the anti's. If private sales go up, private sales may go away. If you cannot legally fill out a 4473 to purchase a firearm, then can you own one legally? If not, is the door open to take yours away? Nothing has changed on the Fed level. CO has a bunch of theoretical tax income, of which they have earmarked most for programs for rehab and to restrict and or combat drug use. They havent been brought into court for being drug kingpins by the sherriff of Podunk Nebraska because he has popped 40 people with CO pot in their cars in his town,,,, yet.



    11 e. Are you an unlawfull user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?

    Read that again. It is not only about illegal drugs. Any depressant or stimulant? What is nicotine considered? Booze?

    It also depends on your definition of "addicted to"? Ever see the government's definition of alcoholic?
    The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me.

    Ayn Rand
  • pjames777pjames777 Senior Member Posts: 1,078 Senior Member
    That is another queston that has been rambling around in my nut. Are employers going to be forced to take drug users now? The way I understand it is that pot is fat soluable so if one were to use it, it acts like a time release into the body over a period of time. Alchohol washes out in X hours per oz consumed. No idea what pot is.

    So, if employers are forced to take on pot heads, can they restrict them to certain jobs?

    It can take chronic users more than 30 days to start withdrawls from the dope store in their fat cells`1
  • DurangoKidDurangoKid Member Posts: 183 Member
    Colorado allows ATMs to be placed in Marijuana Stores. Colorado has banned ATMs in any place that sells guns or ammunition. It does seem the Marijuana people are anti-gun leftest.
  • 1965Jeff1965Jeff Senior Member Posts: 1,611 Senior Member
    I have heard the Kansas Highway Patrol has been busy stopping folks bringing their purchases back from CO. Highway Patrol has new meaning...
  • DurangoKidDurangoKid Member Posts: 183 Member
    Crime is up on the Wyoming Border. Mostly driving under the influence of controlled substance, selling Colorado purchased Marijuana fighting etc.
  • PFDPFD Senior Member Posts: 1,202 Senior Member
    DurangoKid wrote: »
    Crime is up on the Wyoming Border. Mostly driving under the influence of controlled substance, selling Colorado purchased Marijuana fighting etc.

    I could be totally wrong but I fin d it hard to believe that anyone in Wyoming that wants to smoke pot has to drive to CO to get it.
    That's all I got.

    Paul
  • BufordBuford Senior Member Posts: 6,664 Senior Member
    PFD wrote: »
    I could be totally wrong but I fin d it hard to believe that anyone in Wyoming that wants to smoke pot has to drive to CO to get it.

    That's what killed Jessie Pinkman
    Just look at the flowers Lizzie, just look at the flowers.
  • DurangoKidDurangoKid Member Posts: 183 Member
    You seemed to be familiar with drug trafficking. I am not. I am just repeating what I have seen in the police reports. I am not guaranteeing that my post are certified. :tissue:
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 6,550 Senior Member
    CaliFFL wrote: »
    11 e. Are you an unlawfull user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?

    Read that again. It is not only about illegal drugs. Any depressant or stimulant? What is nicotine considered? Booze?

    It also depends on your definition of "addicted to"? Ever see the government's definition of alcoholic?
    Read what again?

    Read the definition of controlled substance. It does not depend on made up on the spot definitions. It really is black and white. You smoke pot, you cant buy a firearm legally.


    Controlled substance. A drug or other substance, or immediate
    precursor, as defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances
    Act, 21 U.S.C. 802. The term includes, but is not limited to,
    marijuana, depressants, stimulants, and narcotic drugs. The term
    does not include distilled spirits, wine, malt beverages, or
    tobacco, as those terms are defined or used in Subtitle E of the
    Internal Revenue Code of 1986, as amended.
    Unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance. A
    person who uses a controlled substance and has lost the power of
    self-control with reference to the use of the controlled substance;
    and any person who is a current user of a controlled substance in a
    manner other than as prescribed by a licensed physician. Such use is
    not limited to the use of drugs on a particular day, or within a
    matter of days or weeks before, but rather that the unlawful use has
    occurred recently enough to indicate that the individual is actively
    engaged in such conduct. A person may be an unlawful current user of
    a controlled substance even though the substance is not being used
    at the precise time the person seeks to acquire a firearm or
    receives or possesses a firearm. An inference of current use may be
    drawn from evidence of a recent use or possession of a controlled
    substance or a pattern of use or possession that reasonably covers
    the present time, e.g., a conviction for use or possession of a
    controlled substance within the past year, or multiple arrests for
    such offenses within the past five years if the most recent arrest
    occurred within the past year.
    http://www.atf.gov/regulations-rulings/rulemakings/treasury-decisions/td-391.html
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • RimfireRimfire Senior Member Posts: 807 Senior Member
    Read what again?

    Read the definition of controlled substance. It does not depend on made up on the spot definitions. It really is black and white. You smoke pot, you cant buy a firearm legally.

    http://www.atf.gov/regulations-rulings/rulemakings/treasury-decisions/td-391.html

    The ambiguous term there is unlawful. Unlawful at Local, State, or Federal level?

    Tangential Example: Just because someone was prescribed Effexor (an anti-depressant) doesn't make them ineligible to purchase a firearm. Yes, it is a controlled substance, but they are a lawful user. BTW, Effexor is also prescribed for some case of Erectile Dysfunction/Pre-mature Ejaculation.
    G&A Forum Member since: October 2000; Life Member: GOA, IWLA, NRA, & Escapees.
  • alphasigmookiealphasigmookie Senior Member Posts: 8,775 Senior Member
    Rimfire wrote: »
    BTW, Effexor is also prescribed for some case of Erectile Dysfunction/Pre-mature Ejaculation.

    You sure seem to know a lot about this drug. Something you need to share? :tooth:
    "Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
    -DoctorWho
  • alphasigmookiealphasigmookie Senior Member Posts: 8,775 Senior Member
    Overall it does seem ambiguous and these are all things that will get worked out eventually, unfortunately probably through the courts after a handful of ruined lives. I could see the federal government eventually giving control to the states on this issue. That's effectively what they've done already in CO and with medical MJ in most states.
    "Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
    -DoctorWho
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