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jbp-ohio
Senior MemberPosts: 10,188 Senior Member
Why Tasers aren't a good SD choice.......
jbp-ohio
Senior MemberPosts: 10,188 Senior Member
http://www.timesreporter.com/communities/x985868807/Taser-fails-to-subdue-man-charged-in-disturbance
''Taser me again!"
And yes, Uhrichsville cops =
Notorious for macing people after they are in a holding cell.....
''Taser me again!"
And yes, Uhrichsville cops =
Notorious for macing people after they are in a holding cell.....
"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson
Replies
Tasers are good for LE..... when there is a 2nd LEO there to back you up with a firearm. Not for use by yourself, cause they don't always work. You have to get 2 prongs in the flesh on a moving target...
Mace isn't good for a holding cell.............. when it empties out the whole building because everybodies eyes are burning.... It's a small one floor building with all of the town officials and secretaries..
For SD, they work completely differently and are a different weapon entirely.
They cuffed him the old fashioned way of a pile-on after the taser didn't work....
It's always a great policy to have backup capable of using leathal force when less leathal force is being deployed. But it's not always possible. For local cops that have a quick response for backup, cool. For county and state guys out there by themselves with long wait times for backup, that's not always an option. You have to take that into account when you're dealing wiht these situations.
"Mace" is a generic term these days. Sure, there is a procuct called Mace, but the term is used to describe all OC sprays in general. If cross contamination is a concern, there are products for that. Specifically ballistic stream spray patterns and possibly foam. I'm not a big fan of foam, but it has it's advanatages.
No one tool is 100% effective. That goes for lethal and less lethal. It's generally the combination of tools and the proper deployment of them that makes the difference between a good and bad outcome. Tasers don't always work. One big factor is the spread of the darts. The further apart the better. The closer you are when you deploy it, the closer the darts will be together.
I don't think Tasers are a great option for self defense. They could play a role in certain few situations, but that's not what the idea is here.
In a LE situation, all they gotta do is pull the trigger again and the ride starts all over.
Just had to clarify that a little, too.
Jerry
No you won't. You're thinking of a stun gun. With a Taser, the leads are still connected to you and the taser, and you'll be cuffed while you're writhing around on the floor. If you try fighting, they'll just pull the trigger again and it's another 10 seconds.
I think the guy in the article was push stunned, which means you pull the cartridge off and just use the thing like a stun gun. That's for people lying down where you can't get a spread on the probes.
Never use pepper spray inside....it gets into the air conditioning and peppers the entire building.
Again, just a little note that probably is usless info............
No, I am thinking Tazer. Just like the one that I volunteered to be hit by when the local PD was doing training on them. They used the alligator clips on me and I am sure I still have some permanent reminder of that on me. And just like the one I saw a methed up tweeker pull the leads out of his body as soon as the ticking noise stopped. My point is that its effects are temporary, and my reply was geared towards SD, not a LEO tool as that is the title to the thread. When I was working in the gun shop I had lots and lots (mostly women) who were interested in less lethal options, most of the time under false pretenses of the effectiveness of said options.
A methed-up guy MAY pull the probes out but when you see him reach for them, you give him another shot. Anyway, he should be in cuffs before the effects wear off.
It's a less lethal weapon, not a substitute for a gun.
Tasers are not 100% effective. Niether is pepper spray. If I had to choose one of the two, I'd go with the Taser personally. Consider the target area of the two options. Pepper spray must contact the eyes to even have a chance to be truly effective. Granted, there are some respiratory effects, but that's a secondary effect and not the real desired effect. Taser gives a little more target area provided both darts make contact with the individual.
I've sprayed people only to see a look on thier face that says, "I was just going to fight you a little, but now you've pised me off!" I've also sprayed people and had to go from fighting to trying to keep the person from killing themselves freaking out, crying, yelling in pain, running around blind in panic. Same thing goes with the Taser. I've seen it work. I've seen it not work. There's a lot of reasons why they don't always work.
However, the title of the thread is a little off from the article quoted, IMO. Self defense and law enforcement making an arrest are two totally different situations.
ETA - Also consider how the two work. OC spray works by using pain and invovluntary closure of the eyes. Taser works by interfering with the body's nerve function, attempting to disable muscles. Pain tolerance is not a factor with the Taser.
Drugged-up doesn't matter. It does matter with pepper spray, I've seen people with high tolerance to capsicum pepper who aren't distressed at all.
The same is also true with Taser, as you mentioned. It's ususally user error or bad probe placement or a combination of the two.
Jerry
If a trained LEO with a LEO grade Taser (better than the ones marketed for civilians) can't subdue someone with two shots, then an untrained civilian shouldn't try to rely on one to save threir hide...
Negative... you can hold down the trigger. Besides, your comment indicates to me you may have not ever been tased with a modern ECD and experienced complete NMI (neuro-muscular incapacitation). I have. It sucks.
No one should rely on a TASER when faced with deadly force. That's not what they're for.
As for a LEO TASER v a civiian TASER, they're two different products. LEO TASERs are not any "better," they're engineered differently.The civilian number is a shoot, drop and run model, and continues to introduce voltage as you presumably are running away. A LEO TASER is built with weapon retention in mind and to take the guy into custody.
Luis
They're a great choice for a bad guy who isn't offering deadly force. They're not appropriate to defend against a deadly force threat, but they're slighly better than a stick.
Hmm, indeed, Sir.
However, gator clipping them to you still does not offer the full experience of being shot with the probes. I've heard this from those who have been gator clipped AND probe-shot (myself only having been probe-shot).
I've used one a few times and they work well in the application they were intended. For anything remotely considered deadly force, have your gun out. But like I said, if you are the only one around and use a taser, you can hold down the trigger and deliver multiple cycles until backup arrives if the resistance continues.
Gene's on the money. Civvie taser is a 30 second ride, slower pulse frequency. LEO version is a 5 second ride, or continuous if trigger is held...M26 has a steady pulse rate, X26 has a varied pulse rate.
I'd never recommend a Taser to a civilian looking for a SD device. That would be a gun.
True... the original "Mace" was primarily CN (1%)...later formulations either added the "pepper" component or did away with the CN component completely...In my experience, the original formulation was a little more brutal (nausea/vomiting)but more effective...